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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:50 pm 
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When the New Orleans class was designed, the communications deck was made extra high. The reason is that the conning tower needed the extra height to see over turret 2. So the base of the conning tower was 3'10" above the rest of the communications deck, and the deck for the pilothouse was 8' above that. This applied to all 7 ships of the class. Astoria, Minneapolis and San Francisco eventually raised the communications deck to the higher level, but the other 4 did not. Quincy's 20MM gallery was built at the level of the base of the by then removed conning tower. Vincennes had hers added at the original communications deck level. This gave them a 3'10" difference in height above the main deck. This equates to .065" in 1/700 scale.

As for the alleged quarterdeck 20MM on Vincennes, I agree that they were not there. No photos show them, and several show the vacant quarterdeck clearly. Where I think that last pair of 20MM were mounted was in the gallery around the back of the after control position atop the hangar, putting 4 at that level. Some photos seem to hint at that, but I am still searching for a definitive shot to prove it.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:11 pm 
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Thanks for the quick response Dick! The Plans I have are in 1/350 scale. I believe the difference was around .40mm in that scale. Would that be about right? I agree also. I have seen a Pic of a very open deck where the 20mm are supposedly mounted. As far as the 4 20mm atop the aft Control position, I have not heard or thought of that. Interesting! I just want to get the 20mm gallery position right, as I am designing both the Quincy and Vincennes Forward superstructures in a cad program to have them 3d Printed to use for modifying the San Fran kit to a model of each!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:06 pm 
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jester63, contact me off line. dick_jensen_44@msn.com


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:38 pm 
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Email inbound!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:28 am 
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Another question ref USS San Francisco, please:

George Richardson's drawings in Lester Abbey's book show no. 38's on the hull in 1935 and in 1942. Should I assume they were there in late 1939, or does anyone have any contrary opinion?

Thanks again,
Chuck

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:38 am 
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Chuck, navsource only shows the 25's no 38's as does "warship pictorial #5" so she never got those 38's guns as she had a weight issue.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:53 am 
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Sorry, I'm talking about the numerals on the side of the hull fore and aft.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:42 am 
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Hull numbers were not displayed on battleships, cruisers, or aircraft carriers during the 1930s. Even after the war started, some cruisers when they were repainted or touched up, painted over the hull numbers for periods of time until they had time to reapply the hull numbers. Ship recognition was fairly easy to determine the ID of a given ship during those periods without the hull numbers (except for destroyers that had been carrying hull numbers since WWI). Once new ships were added to the Fleet with many units in each class, plus with wholesale "green crews" manning them, keeping hull numbers visible was a necessity. :smallsmile:

Chuck,

If you are modeling USS SAN FRANCISCO (or any other NEW ORLEANS class cruiser for any time frame in 1939), the ship would have by and large looked as they did during the late 1930's. The upgrades associated with WWII (the King Board Air Defense Improvements and things like installing radar) didn't start to appear on ships until mid-1940. For some ships they didn't START to get these mods until 1941 (very true for destroyers). The King Board ADI mods not only involved adding AA armament and splinter shielding, but also included structural mods to improve firing arcs and as weight compensation removals. Radars were slow to appear with the CXAM radars being the first "serial" installations, and they were on very few ships, some carriers, battleships and cruisers. Application of camouflage painting started in the Spring of 1941.

After WWII started in Europe in September 1939, the USN started to be restrictive on photos being taken of their ships as mods took place. There wasn't a "legal" ban on taking photos by civilians, media, etc, but they tried to "encourage" them to NOT take and release photos. This is why there are fewer images of USN ships in the 1940-41 period available. The World's Fair in 1940 was one of the last times when there were quite a few photos of USN ships taken and published by non-USN sources. By and large the photos taken then show no differences in configuration from the previous few years. Some media, LIFE magazine is an example, under USN "supervision" were allowed to take images of USN ships for PR purposes.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Numbers on the hulls, no; but there was a period in the mid 1930s where they had them on a turret top (usually #2) for aerial identification (for the scout planes, I'd guess; superseded by the color coding scheme) There seems to have been no standard as to font, color, or orientation. Carriers, of course, had their abbreviated names on their decks rather than numbers.

- SeanF


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:20 pm 
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The application of hull numbers on USN ships turrets (I only know of it being done on battleships) was done for large scale Fleet exercises.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:13 pm 
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I've seen so many models with the hull numbers in place it seemed foolish to ask. But I'm glad I did!
Thanks once again gentlemen.

Chuck

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:52 pm 
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I mis-remembered the photo, it wasn't turret #2 on cruisers, but #3: Here's Chicago and Tuscaloosa sporting them (according to NavSource, it's Nov. 1936 at Mare Island):
http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/029/0402910.jpg

I took a spin through Navsource; couldn't find any other photos of them on cruisers (low camera angle and/or intense glare off the turret roofs make it hard to see any detail most of the time) For the battleships it seems to be turret 2 and the photos I spotted them in have dates ranging between 1932 and 1935 - granted, Navsource's captions aren't always accurate. Are you sure it was only for big exercises? Arizona's glorious shaded "39" looks like something they would've kept around for a while. On the other hand, the cruddy "46" on Maryland here definitely looks like a throw-away:
http://navsource.org/archives/01/046/014646c.jpg

- Sean F.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:06 pm 
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The photos, for the battleships anyway, correspond to major Fleet Exercises carried out about once a year. The fleet divided into two groups and went through planned battle exercises. The numbers on the roofs were intended to keep track of the major units, since ships in one class could be divided between the two "Fleets". Other photos show that once the exercises were over, the numbers were painted over.

I stand corrected. I completely missed the numbers on those two cruisers. How that I look through Treaty Cruisers images I have, I do find hull numbers on turret roofs.

To mention a couple that I found. The use of "stripes" was much more common during the 1930s.

USS SALT LAKE CITY in April 1937. #2 turret.

USS CHESTER in April 1935. #3 turret


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:45 pm 
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Very slowly putting together my build for the San Francisco, 14 DEC '42.

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=167538

Working on the aft superstructure components. I know she took an 8" to battle II (Hit #41). I know there was a platform and splinter shielding up there as well. This is the only picture I've been able to find post-battle.

To me it looks like the 8" shell entered, left a oblique entry hole, and blew a 3'x4' hole. But it also looks like the splinter shielding was torn up as well(green arrows). I just wanted to see if anyone else had any photos or info. Just an outside shot, so I can capture this accurately. I haven't been able to find much outside this photo and the battle damage report...

54. On the port side another projectile, probably 8" from the left hand group of ships, struck the overhead of battle II at frame 109, exploded, and tore a 3 ft. x 4 ft. hole. The 30 lb. S.T.S. armored tube to the 5" director was penetrated by fragments in five places. The distance from the point of explosion to the armored tube is approximately 6 ft. Some fragments also penetrated to the after fire control station. Fragments and a fire started by the hit wrecked all instruments and equipment in battle II not previously damaged by the fire from the plane crash. This included gyro-repeaters, rudder angle indicators, engine revolution transmitter, own ships course repeater, engine order transmitter, compensating coil, and degaussing control panel.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:38 pm 
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Best I can do for you is this interior image I scanned at the Archives last year.

HTH

Matt

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:42 pm 
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Also have these two for details.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:37 am 
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taskforce48 wrote:
Best I can do for you is this interior image I scanned at the Archives last year.

HTH

Matt

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Thank you! This is helpful...

and also humbling to remember what surface combat in the pitch black in the hot South Pacific must have been like. Truly humbling.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:20 pm 
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Came across some cool pre-war New Orleans color footage.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:55 pm 
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USS Vincennes 1942.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:42 am 
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Good morning gents,
From my previous questions here I learned that USS San Francisco probably had two 14-foot punts on board in 1939. Does anyone know where they might have been stowed? Atop the boat stacks on the aft superstructure's boat deck, perhaps?
TIA
Chuck

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