The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:15 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 633 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 28, 29, 30, 31, 32
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:19 am
Posts: 174
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Hi Chuck,

My references indicate they were actually 12ft punts and they were carried on the over hangar deck. I have a picture somewhere that shows them stacked on top of each other between the big boat stacks.

Bruce

_________________
Bruce
OSC USN-Ret
Image

Currently on the building ways:
1/144 USS Stevens DD-479
1/144 USS Cook Inlet AVP-36
1/350 USS Hughes DD-410
1/144 USS Preble DDG-46


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:26 pm
Posts: 463
Location: USA
Ha, yes, after I typed my message I realized it might be a mistake. Thanks for the correction.
Sounds like they were kind of stowed randomly. I'll look for a logical spot up there. Thanks for the quick reply.

_________________
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... uck-Bauer/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:23 am
Posts: 55
Location: Netherlands
Hello,

Currently I'm in the last phases of building my 1/350 Trumpeter USS San Francisco. Would anybody here happen to know the color of the navigation lights? And yes, I am aware of the port light being red and starboard being green. But I'm not sure of the right color to put on on the whole light units on the bridge wing (see the attached picture). I can only find b/w pictures which do not give away more than a dark grey.

Anybody with a suggestion?

Thanks!

- Bas


Attachments:
File comment: Navigation lights
NavLight.JPG
NavLight.JPG [ 41.41 KiB | Viewed 592 times ]

_________________
In progress:
USS San Francisco CA-38 1944
HNLMS De Ruyter 1942

Finished:
My gallery
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:26 pm
Posts: 463
Location: USA
I don't know how to post images here but I have several photos of the San Francisco's navigation lights as they are displayed at the USS San Francisco Memorial in California. I think you are safe in painting the backboards the same color as the lights. I think they did that to make the lights more noticeable from a longer distance. I did it on my 1939 model and nobody has pounced on it as being "wrong." I would try looking up that memorial website and seeing if you can zoom in on the USSSF's bridge and catch a look at the lights.

_________________
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... uck-Bauer/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:23 am
Posts: 55
Location: Netherlands
Thanks Chuck, that is a good suggestion! I've googled some pictures, found the latter. So it would seem that you are right by stating I'd be safe with the backboards painted red or green.

Thanks again!

- Bas

Image

_________________
In progress:
USS San Francisco CA-38 1944
HNLMS De Ruyter 1942

Finished:
My gallery


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:41 pm
Posts: 1519
Location: Mocksville, NC
Not to throw cold water on this topic, BUT...

Re: the picture sent in by BAS - I cannot recall seeing any USN warships with the navigation light FIXTURE being painted as shown in the photo - the metal housing was always flat black. Only the light lens itself was either green or red. This IMHO is an example of the exhibiting entity taking liberties that weren't present during the artifact's actual service.

Just my 2 cents worth...

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late '40 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:23 am
Posts: 55
Location: Netherlands
Thanks for your reply Hank! Your message convinced me to do some more research. I'm struggling to find some color photos of a USN WW2 ship's bridge that is detailed enough to share some light ;) on the navigation light plating. I'll get back to it when I found some feasible pictures.

- Bas

_________________
In progress:
USS San Francisco CA-38 1944
HNLMS De Ruyter 1942

Finished:
My gallery


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:26 pm
Posts: 463
Location: USA
Bas,
I agree, I think Hank makes a good point. The bridge bulwark at the Memorial is apparently the one removed when the 1942 battle damage was repaired. It looks like the bulwark itself may have been painted for the exhibit, long after 1942. Therefore, Hank's comment makes sense in that the Memorial could have painted both the bulwark itself and the light backplates in colors that did not reflect absolute historic accuracy.
I have seen photographs of the San Francisco in 1944 after her refit which show the backplates painted the hull color and not the color of the light. So if you are doing a late war model then this could be the way to do it.
Now then, the photo you attached does not appear to be the San Francisco. However, in the 1930's the San Francisco did have dual lights at each mounting position, such as what your photo shows. When I was doing my research I concluded that San Francisco's backplates were painted the color of the light(s). So I used a clear piece of styrene for the lens, painted it a translucent red or green, and then painted the backplate a solid red or green. Gary Kingzett's 1936 rendition shows them this way, also, and at the time I may have been influenced by his build, since it was so finely researched.
I don't recall what year you are building your model to, Bas, but I look forward to seeing what you dig up on this. If need be, it is a simple matter for me to take my 100/0 brush and change those backplates ;)

_________________
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... uck-Bauer/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:41 pm
Posts: 1519
Location: Mocksville, NC
Just a couple other comments re. the painting of artifacts/museum ships:

1) Having been to some of the east coast museum ships and various museums displaying artifacts, I can honestly say that the items open to the public and on display are NOT to be taken as factual in how they were painted during their actual operational service. Many of the ship museums do not adhere to the USN guidelines for that class of ship at the time in which it is being depicted. They are often sloppy about how and what is (or is not) painted, etc.

2) Unfortunately, black & white photos are hard to discern when trying to figure out colors from these photos. I think Rick E. Davis would agree and he's spent countless hours doing serious research with b/w photos from WW1 & WW2, etc.

I've learned to never truly trust museum (ship) items for colors, but only shape/size/construction details. U.S. Navy paint stds. are not all that hard to understand if you have a time period to work within and know that ship's (various) paint scheme(s) during that time period.

Then too, modelers tend to be a bit more discerning when it comes to "getting things right" than the average :censored_2: landlubber!

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late '40 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:01 am
Posts: 1110
Location: Corvallis, Oregon, USA
Normal practice was to paint the baffles flat black on the sides facing the lights in order to reduce reflections. The baffles restrict the viewing angles for the lights in accordance with international rules of the road - otherwise the baffles wouldn't even be there.

Reflections off the baffles could screw up the visible angles, especially if they were painted with a glossy paint. The intent is for a sharp cut off for visibility of the light beyond certain angles.

Of course, not everyone followed the rules. Bosuns Mates had a habit of "customizing" things. And time and paint availability sometimes necessitated painting with whatever you had on hand. The seamen doing the work might not know the rules.

I suspect the colored baffles in the photo were lubber's work.

Phil

_________________
A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:24 pm
Posts: 203
Spent many nights of my teens having fun in that area.

From what I recall the Memorial was falling into a bit of disrepair in the 80's.
She is, after all, facing into the Pacific with no normal upkeep.
Seems to me she was "refurbished" in the mid eightys, ceremony and all.

What I can remember from my last visit 20+ years ago, paint was fresh, just navy gray.
My old man tried handing me a .38 slug saying he pried it out of the metal, lol.
Dont count what you see as being accurate.

Looks like she could use a little TLC.

Paul


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:25 am
Posts: 2171
Location: Los Angeles and Houston
BB62vet wrote:
Just a couple other comments re. the painting of artifacts/museum ships:

1) Having been to some of the east coast museum ships and various museums displaying artifacts, I can honestly say that the items open to the public and on display are NOT to be taken as factual in how they were painted during their actual operational service. Many of the ship museums do not adhere to the USN guidelines for that class of ship at the time in which it is being depicted. They are often sloppy about how and what is (or is not) painted, etc.

2) Unfortunately, black & white photos are hard to discern when trying to figure out colors from these photos. I think Rick E. Davis would agree and he's spent countless hours doing serious research with b/w photos from WW1 & WW2, etc.


Yeah, when we were learning Colorization (this was before Photoshop, but they also teach it in advanced Photoshop classes) of B&W Photos, a few of the crucial things we were taught was:

1) What kind of a film is being used (Panchromatic or Orthochromatic)?
This made a HUGE difference in how Reds, Greens, Yellows, and Blues showed up on film.
2) What in the image is White and what in the image is Black?
This is important to setting the "Neutral Value" shades/tints of all colors in the space.
3) How blown-out is the brightest object in the photo (On old B&W Cameras, they had no aperture settings to avoid blowing blowing out your whites in a really sunny shot)?
This would tell you that some things that looked white might not BE White. And to be careful about anything that "looked" Black/Dark.

At real Museums (Art Museums, and official Military Museums), they will employ Art Preservation Experts that know these things (A dept I worked in when I was very young back in the late-70s/early-80s at the Dallas Museum of Art, learning the trade).

Now, you have bigger museums like the NY Met employing huge teams of people to correct Prints in PS to adjust them to clear up things like Blown-out skies, or lack of details in a shadow (there is usually information in the negative for what is in the shadow, but you have to expose just that portion of the negative for something like half an hour to get the details to start coming out).

BB62vet wrote:
I've learned to never truly trust museum (ship) items for colors, but only shape/size/construction details. U.S. Navy paint stds. are not all that hard to understand if you have a time period to work within and know that ship's (various) paint scheme(s) during that time period.

Then too, modelers tend to be a bit more discerning when it comes to "getting things right" than the average :censored_2: landlubber!

Hank


But, yeah, when it comes to Museum Ships, they rarely have endowments big enough to hire such specialists to check for if they have got the colors on the Ships accurate to the actual paint or pigments that would be used.

MB

_________________
OMG LOOK! A signature

Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:01 am
Posts: 1110
Location: Corvallis, Oregon, USA
Although the Navy has standards for colors, they aren't always followed.

I was Engineering Officer on a small minesweeper, and we followed the book for painting piping with colors to show what each pipe carried.

Later I was assigned to a cruiser (fleet flagship). We got a new XO on board who decided to paint everything according to his own color scheme, interior and exterior, with lots of polished brass and McNamara's lace. His color scheme for piping was unique! I remember being on bridge watch when the new XO was telling the Captain all the changes he wanted to make. Our no-nonsense Captain told the new XO, "Rodney, you want to turn my ship into a circus boat!"

Later, after that Captain had moved on, we got a new Captain who had very little at sea experience. His previous commands had been LMDs (Large Mahogany Desks). He let the XO run amok and we got his "circus ship."

In some cases individual Divisions, especially deck Divisions, create their own unique color schemes. Things like the wildcats and chain pipes are painted green on the starboard side and red on the port. In our Division the missile guys painted shark teeth (like the Flying Tigers) on the trainer missiles that are supposed to be painted blue (inert).

So you can't always depend upon the "standard" Navy color schemes.

Phil

_________________
A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 633 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 28, 29, 30, 31, 32

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Willie and 3 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group