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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:39 am 
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Have these chaff launchers superceded the PK-2 decoy turrets in function? Or are they in some way complementary?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:55 pm 
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Complementary, all ships carry both systems. The decoy is just that, a decoy, it makes a false target. The chaff launchers just blurr the real target ship's position. I'm not sure about the real decoys used from the PK-2, if it's IR/heat generation or something else. I do think the distance at which it is effective is longer than the chaff launchers. The chaff launchers are quite close to the ship if you look at pictures of them deploying (I think there is one in the Sovremenny-Udaloy topic) and as you can see they are fixed in position but aiming at different directions. The PK-2 is guided by radar to launch in an optimal direction.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:11 pm 
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Hello I am planning on building two or more Slava class Cruisers. I have noticed the main deck on many of these cruisers are not alike when it comes to that coloring . I can't remember if it was post here or not I did a quick look but I don't have Internet currently and I'm trying to do this on my phone which isn't working out too well but does anyone have a general guide of the ships of the Slava class maindeck colors as of to date thank you much !


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I have a general question 100% for this post but I figured the people on this post would know more and it would receive more attention on this post then the other... I am planning on building one of the Russian tarantula class missile speedboats project 1241, which is in 1/400 scale and And was planning on buying a 1/350 scale Kirov or slava photo etch kits for The rails radars and other odd and ends parts. Could this work out or would it be far too noticeably different due to the differences in scale or what the differences be just enough for some not to notic?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:54 pm 
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Neptune wrote:
Complementary, all ships carry both systems. The decoy is just that, a decoy, it makes a false target. The chaff launchers just blurr the real target ship's position. I'm not sure about the real decoys used from the PK-2, if it's IR/heat generation or something else. I do think the distance at which it is effective is longer than the chaff launchers. The chaff launchers are quite close to the ship if you look at pictures of them deploying (I think there is one in the Sovremenny-Udaloy topic) and as you can see they are fixed in position but aiming at different directions. The PK-2 is guided by radar to launch in an optimal direction.



PK-2 turret seems invariable associated with a metal chute that angles downwards from the turret to the side of the ship, as if something is meant to be sent from the turret over the side of the ship. I wonder if it is capable of launching underwater decoys as well.

The RBU-12000 10 tube rocket launcher is appearently able to launch a variety of underwater weapons and decoys besides rocket propelled depth charges.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:09 pm 
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I think that is to discard the empty cartridges. It has to return to a "normal" position to reload its tubes, I think in that normal position it's lined up with the chute to discard (much like a gun) its empty cartridges overboard.
I had some lay-out drawing of that system, including its below deck configuration, but I'm still looking where I got that.

The RBU is indeed also used an as anti-torpedo shield.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:31 pm 
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Neptune wrote:
I'm not sure if they are mounted in that place on Velikiy, I was of the impression that they were mounted on her main missile deck, but that could've come from a different ship or class.


The only place I've seen them on the Veliky is flanking the unused SA-N-9 mounts at the aft end of the f'c'stle. There are 4 of them, covering the 4 quadrants. There was one photos that seem to show 2 such units sitting on deck just forward of the front Kashtan mount, pointed straight up. But the photo is blurry and I can't be sure. I scanned a bunch of photos of the Veliky from 2006-2011 and saw none anywhere else.

Also the ones on f'c'stle was not present on some early photos of Veliky. It was probably fitted sometime after the year 2000.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:20 pm 
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PV also has a very elaborate antenna, reminiscent of a over-air television broadcast antenna, over her bridge. Any clue what that antenna is for?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:54 pm 
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No idea about the antenna, I'm assuming you're talking about the one just behind the Tombstone?

Chaff launchers, a nice close-up of them on the Slava class can be seen in page 19 of this topic (with caps on instead of the charges).
PV has many more of these launchers. There's 4 in front of the forward Kashtan (2 each side, pointing steeply up, outboard to forward), and there's an additional 8 (4 each side) around the lifeboats: 2 just behind the aft lifeboat pointing very steeply up slightly to the outboard aft and 2 below the lifeboat (between the davits), one pointing forward, one pointing aft outboard in a rather low angle.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:47 am 
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Yes, I see them now. Thanks.


BTW, there is a soviet era propaganda film of the Kirov, available on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX7KDVvuVYg
, that shows a remarkable amount of onboard detail for the Kirov.

In shows the Kirov's launch, complete with 2 huge ceremonial 19th century style stocked anchor. kirov hull appears to have been supported by particularly massive launch cradles that completely blocked views of the ship's underwater hull in the rear, making it appear as if kirov was sitting inside a dry dock and it was the dry dock that was being launched.

It also shows partially empty S-300 carossal from the inside of the ship, rotating to align with launch hatch. It shows S-300 and P-700 missiles being loaded, it shows the when in the stowed position, the torpedo tubes are further sectioned off from the interior of the ship by interior sliding doors. There is also interior view (unfortunately badly lit) from the Variable deptch sonar compartment showing the VDS being deployed out through the stern door. The deployment is appearently controlled from a portable control box carried by a crewman.

Given this film was made during the Soviet era and clearly shows a P-700 Granit missile while it is being loaded into its silo on the Kirov, it's pretty remarkable that the west seemed to have no idea what P-700 really looked like until well after the Kursk accident in 2001, with fairly authorative references around that time still showing P-700 with swept wing and under body air intake, look like P-500 Balzalt instead.

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Last edited by Timmy C on Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:36 pm 
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Depends if you believe that of course. I sincerely doubt it. Fairly sure they (NATO command/intelligence) knew very well what it looked like. In fact I think it's nearly impossible that they didn't know. For sure they were checking for the characteristics, including spying on actual launches otherwise they wouldn't have a clue what that weapon was up to. If they were witnessing/spying on test launches, that would include seeing what it looked like. In intelligence the parties involved don't really like the other party to know what they found out (could even compromise certain spies). By showing a nice accurate drawing in something like Jane's, that would show the Soviets/Russians what NATO knew and that could lead to certain reactions from their side. Same counts for the Malakhit/Siren on the Nanuchka frigates and even Metel-Rastrub/Silex missile on the Udaloy, the shown drawings by certain good sources were very wrong from the actual appearance of those missiles. Probably intentionally.

As for the launching those blocks are indeed massive. Seen them in pictures as well. It looks like they are indeed keeping the hull stable or to avoid it from swinging to one side by current during the launching.

Funny that these launchers of the Kirov and Kuznetsov still had to be filled with water before launch. They just took the submarine system and put it on these ships. That's also why that cap is still present on those Granits, since it's still encountering water during launch.

Didn't know the Rif hatches opened to forward in a sliding way, always thought they'd just hinge back...
The torpedo tubes appear to be suspended to the top rather than standing on the deck below?!


As for Redoctober, I didn't see your post before. Slava pics are widely available, certainly recent pics, the deck colours can be seen on these pics. They change from time to time, so you'll have to choose a couple of pics from the same moment/port visit and use that to work from in order to get an accurate scheme.
As for the Tarantul, it depends on what you like. For the railing that shouldn't give you much trouble, considering the average 1.03m of railing height, that would bring you at 2.9mm in 1/350, while in reality in 1/400 it should be 2.6mm, a 0.3mm difference isn't much, depending on what you like of course. The radars on a Tarantul aren't huge, the Palm Front is a small thing and so are the others. The main thing is the Bandstand, but that's not from PE I guess. Since these radars are small, the differences won't be big either. It would be different with one of the really big 4m high arrays (not present on Tarantul), then you'd have a 0.5mm difference and that would probably be visible.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:16 pm 
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Neptune wrote:
Funny that these launchers of the Kirov and Kuznetsov still had to be filled with water before launch. They just took the submarine system and put it on these ships. That's also why that cap is still present on those Granits, since it's still encountering water during launch.



Some sources say submarine and surface launched versions are not entirely identical. In a seemingly backwards arrangement, the submarine lannched versions is said to be capable of being commanded after launch, the surface launched version is entirely autonomous.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:44 am 
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Hello all, I kind of hit a snag with my 1/700 Moskva build. Somewhere along the lines I missplaced BOTH if what I call 'wings.' It's the platforms directly above last sets of missile tubes that hold the radar domes. Was just curious if anyone knew where I could get my hands on a set of em without having to scrap a whole nother slava class just for them. If all else fails just the plans for em in 1/700 would work cause than I could scratch build em. Any help is appreciated! Nearly done with the build, just gotta put riggin up than the armanment.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:39 pm 
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I find LEDs make excellet replacement radomes. Just cut off the contacts, file the base until you get the right length, and then paint the thing radome color.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:37 am 
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Sorry I shoulda been more specific on what I meant! It's the platforms those radomes sit on along the sides of the forward superstructure.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:20 pm 
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Finally got something more clear on those torp tubes. So the Slava tubes definately rotate. It seems that they can't rotate fully though, they'll Always launch under a forward angle. It also corresponds to my initial ideas and indeed the aft of the tubes comes on the reload hatch on main deck aft.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:00 am 
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It looks to me like the tubes may have room to train directly abeam, but not further. If the tubes would primarily fire ss-n-15, then they need to ensure the weapon clear the ship by a safety margin. Besides that it wouldn't matter which way they are fired. They can fire in the opposite direction from its target and it wouldn't make any difference.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:38 pm 
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If you watch the video of that launch again, you'll note that they launch at a move, and the shot still dives a chunk like a normal torpedo due to the mass/inertia/gravity effects before its motor kicks in. They seem to clear a decent distance before ignition pretty easily.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:36 pm 
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The Top Dome fire control radar's completely hemispherical radome mounted on a deep, two step truncated cone is unlike any other Radar I know of. Is its hemispheric radome really a lundberg lens mounted on an array of traveling wave amplifiers?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:54 am 
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Hi All,

Now for something far less technical. I have a question that I was going to answer when I went aboard Varyag in Sydney at the International Fleet Review. Unfortunately she did not attend the review, very disappointing :cry_3: :cry_3:

My question is this: Does anyone have an estimate (or a measurement) as to how large the anchor cables are on Varyag - the number of links in a certain length of cable would do just nicely :thinking: :thinking:

Thanks in advance.

Andrew

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:32 am 
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Does this picture of Varyag from Nov. 2011 help?
Cheers
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