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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:36 pm 
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They are booms for deploying the Paravane located on the Port side, just in front of them.
They could also be used as a davit for hoisting items up the side of the hull.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:08 am 
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Quote:
They are booms for deploying the Paravane located on the Port side, just in front of them.
They could also be used as a davit for hoisting items up the side of the hull.



Thanks, are you referring to the top two light gray rods?

My question is about the dark gray tube closest to the deck (or on deck), which looks more like a container than a hoist. As there are such tubes close to all main turrets the container for cleaning rods seems quite likely explanation.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:27 pm 
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Did they use "cleaning rods?" We're not talking about a pistol you carry around on your waist. Large naval guns are very long, and a "cleaning rod" would have to be even longer. This would be cumbersome to handle on the deck of a ship - or the top of a lower turret.

I have seen photos of sailors pulling a bundle of rags or a brush on a rope through the barrels of battleship guns.

Phil

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:34 am 
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Looks like they did use rods for cleaning.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:47 am 
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But why was then the tube not present earlier in the war? When the 20.3 cm guns were already present? ;) And when did she got paravanes?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:13 pm 
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How about that!? And the picture also shows what might be the boom for the paravanes.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:18 pm 
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These tubes contained the barrels for sub-caliber firing. If I'm mot mistaken, the used 8.8cm barrels for the 20.3cm guns...

Happy :wave_1: ~ Olaf!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:05 pm 
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don't think it is a 88mm gun barrel as too heavy to manhandle to mount ontop of an existing barrel, no breach mechanism visible & 88mm gun barrel is longer then what is shown.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:30 pm 
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Not on top, but inside the 20.3-barrel...


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:07 pm 
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how do you lift a 1700 plus pounds on the shortest listed 88mm into the main barrel & what do you use to prevent that barrel from recoiling back thru the 203mm breech?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:11 am 
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To be honest, I have no idea. But I know there was/is a technical regulation for what they have called "Abkommschießen" (sub-calibre firing). Something of that kind could have been carried out by other navies, too.

And if you find 8.8 barrels to be too heavy-weighted, guess what they have inserted into Bismarck's and Tirpitz' 38-cm-barrels...

EDIT: The above sentence is rubbish. Actually, it was the 8.8 that was inserted into the 38cm. What they have used on the Hipper class' 20.3 is now unclear to me. Obviously something smaller... hehehe...


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:52 pm 
I wouldn't say I know everything about the Prinz Eugen, but those canisters were the cleaning rods.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:07 pm 
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Since there were eight canisters, this would mean that each of the eight barrels would have had its own canister for cleaning rods, just in case you would need to clean them all at once.

If only I could find the source for that sub-caliber firing thing. I only recall JK's books on Bismarck, in which he stated this. And since all major capital ships had those canisters in the direct vincinity of the turrets...


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:26 am 
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I have been following this thread and I am not clear what you mean by "sub-caliber firing." It sounds like you are saying that they inserted a smaller caliber barrel into a larger caliber gun.

Given the dynamics involved in firing a gun I can't see how that would work. The smaller caliber barrel would be relatively very thin metal. The pressure of the powder charge explosion would cause it to expand and jam in the larger gun barrel. Then you wouldn't be able to remove it without replacing the larger gun barrel.

You are talking about putting an 88 mm (inner) barrel into a 380 mm inside diameter barrel? That is a tube almost 380 mm diameter with a wall thickness of 146 mm and as long as the larger gun barrel. That would weigh tons and is not something you could man handle into place. It would require a fairly large crane and some kind of carriage to transport the barrel. Sounds pretty silly to me.

****

The US Navy (and other navies) used a technique called "sabot" where a smaller caliber projectile is carried in a larger caliber fitting (the sabot). The sabot is a low mass material, and the smaller projectile is less massive than the ordinary larger diameter projectile. Consequently, when the sabot projectile is fired with the normal powder charge for the larger diameter gun it is accelerated to a higher velocity than it would have in the smaller caliber gun. This gives it a significantly greater range than a larger caliber projectile would have in the same gun. The sabot falls away after the projectile leaves the gun barrel.

This technique goes back to the early 1800s. The US Navy used this technique to fire 5" caliber projectiles from 8" guns during the Vietnam war. I think (not certain) I recall that this gave the 5" projectiles a range of about 20-25 miles, as opposed to the 10 mile range of the 5"/38 gun.

Phil

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:09 am 
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I think Olaf is talking about a kind of sub-caliber firing, which was used for training. Sometimes an additional gun barrel was lashed on top of the normal barrel.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:12 am 
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Yes, for training purposes, and to reduce wear of the precious barrels and of course, to save costs.

@ Phil ~ That is a very good point, re: pressure inside the barrel. Now, either inside or on top, I need to find that source. Maybe it's noted in Bismarck's AVKS report...


Happy modelling ~ Olaf!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:03 pm 
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Just out of curiosity. Where would I get a good set of plans for the Prinz Eugen? Something I could use to build a RC model. Looking for now, to build 1/72
Just need a link for now.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:02 pm 
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http://www.prinzeugen.com/PGplans.htm


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:40 am 
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DavidP wrote:
http://www.prinzeugen.com/PGplans.htm


Thank you :woo_hoo:

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:54 am 
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no problem. I have frame drawings but not the locations on the side profile to where they are to be located tho can be worked out using the top profile.


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