The Ship Model Forum

Hi,

I have always been interested in these eight ships.

Does anyone have any information about them?

I have started a thread in the Camouflage section regarding Curacoa's paint scheme:- viewtopic.php?f=69&t=92941

Profile Morskie do books and .pdf plans for HMS Coventry, HMS Calcutta and HMS Colombo.

There are a few good photographs in both Alan Raven and John Roberts book 'British cruisers of WWII' and Norman Friedman's 'British cruisers: two world wars and after'.

There are a couple of photos in ' Cruiser at War' by Gregory Haines that has one of HMS Carlisle in her tiger stripes and a couple of HMS Cairo in Grand Harbour, Malta, none of which seem to be on the internet.

There are two good books:- 'Valiant Quartet' by G.G. Connell and 'Queen Mary and the cruiser' by David Thomas and Pat Holmes.

If anyone knows any other good sources, especially of drawings, I would be interested to hear of them.

Best wishes
Sandy

There's a selection of John Dominy drawings in the Feature Articles section of "the other" site.

It's ok to mention them by name and/or links.

Here's the direct link to the page: http://www.steelnavy.com/LaterCClass.htm

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De quoi s'agit-il?

Thanks very much for the link.

Often times you can turn up some very good photos by Googling a particular ship. So if an RN ship I start with hms followed by the ships name. As well as potential sites the resultant menu throws up there's often a site listed as "images". I find that's the one to go for. In my view you can't beat real photos of the ship as sometimes with the best will in the world pictures in books can be innaccurate - no offence to the authors.
Mike

This site may be of assistance to you:

http://www.world-war.co.uk/index.php3

Cheers Phil

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" If your going though Hell ,keep going!" Winston Churchill

Could we maybe expand this thread to include all the C-class cruisers from World War I through WWII? It'd be nice to have a resource for these ships, and in particular HMS Caroline. I would like to scratch build a model of her and am looking for plans. I know there is a drawing with hull lines and deckhouses in the back of the R. S. Allison book "HMS Caroline" but that book seems hard to find and the prices are high. Where else might I be able to obtain plans suitable for building a 1/350 model?

you can buy the profile morskie booklet on calcutta, colombo and coventry in ww2
http://profilemorskie.home.pl/BOOKS.htm
or pdf plans
http://profilemorskie.home.pl/350_LargePDF.htm (A3 format)
http://profilemorskie.home.pl/350.htm (A4 format)
if you send me your email address pm, i can send some illustration
ciao peppe

Thanks for the lead. PM inbound!

Does anyone what Calypso was painted when she was sunk in June 1940 in the Med theater? Could it be 507c?



Bob Pink.

Trumpeter are releasing HMS Calcutta in 1/350 scale.

http://www.trumpeter-china.com/index.ph ... d=183&l=en

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In 1757 Admiral John Byng was shot "pour encourager les autres". Voltaire

I picked up the new Trumpeter 1/350 HMS Calcutta kit last week and was looking it over and comparing to what references I have for the ship and came up with a few questions that am hoping any RN experts here can help with. First off on looking at the kit it looks to be very nice and well detailed. Anyone building the kit can improve on it by replacing the weapons, boats, and directors from one of the 3D Printing companies that offer these items. The kit does come with an extensive PE set with railing, but the builder may want to replace this item also. It would be fairly easy to convert this kit to the Cairo or any of the other high bow C Class ships.

Now for the questions (these would also apply to the H-P Models 1/700 kit since it is the same as this kit).

1. Did the Calcutta ever receive an air warning radar? I have two sources that say she did not, but with no explanation. These are the books "Valiant Quartet" and "Cruisers of World War Two an International Encyclopedia" by M. J. Whitley. The Freidman "British Cruisers" says the C Class AA ships had priority for radar, but does not give any details about installation and the Raven/Roberts British Cruiser book does not talk about radar for these ships. I know Coventry (and Curlew before her loss in Norway) received radar before going to the Eastern Med with Calcutta based on "Valiant Quartet". I also have two photos of Calcutta in a Med Fleet camo pattern, one saying taken at Alexandria (same photo as on the cover of the Profile Morskie Calcutta plan book) that show no foremast pole or radar above the foremast tripod that the forward HADT is on. The other photo is over on Steelnavy in the Raven Record photos, again no foremast extension. Both Alan Raven in his Warships Perspectives Camouflage Volume One: RN 1939-1941 and Wright in his RN camouflage Volume 3 book show their profile drawings of the ship to have the foremast extension and radar on the fore mast and mainmast. I am leaning toward no radar even up to her loss on June 1, 1940.

2. The kit comes with two HADT MK IIIs, one on the foremast tripod platform and the second one in a position aft on a pedestal. Did she have both of these or just one on the mainmast platform? The plans for Calcutta in the Raven/Roberts British Cruiser book and the Profile Morskie book show both in place. However, the John Dominy drawings of the C Class ships over on Steelnavy only show the foremast HADT, not the aft unit. The drawings in the Raven camouflage book and the Wright camo book don't have the aft HADT in place. The two photos of the Calcutta in the Med camo pattern noted in 1 above also show no aft HADT. Early photos of Cairo in 1939 and 1940 only show the forward HADT, but show the second one aft in 1942 before her loss. Calcutta and Cairo were converted at the same time. The first two ships converted, Coventry and Curlew had both HADT units. I am leaning to only one HADT for Calcutta throughout her WWII career. This is not a surprise to me since I have been reading the new book on the Town Class and it is noted that several of the Towns did not receive the two forward HADT units for more than a year after the war started so these must have been in very short supply.

3. Does any one have any other photos of Calcutta in the Med Camo pattern? The Raven and Wright Camo books pretty much agree on the pattern and colors, dark, medium, and light grey (507A, 507C and a mix of the two). Raven notes that the pattern is probably the same on both sides and based on the two photos I mention above it looks like it could be so since one is of the port side and one of the starboard side. The photos are so dark so unless they have something better I don't know how they got three colors out of the two photos I have. It would be nice to have some other information if available.

Hope someone can help with these questions. These ships did great work against very long odds, no air cover, not many with radar, missing directors and few light or medium AA guns. The C AA conversions were successful and well liked, but paid a high price with all four of the first 4 conversions being lost.

Thanks David. I did look at those two pages, but they did not add much to what I already have. It is a third source for no radar and the photo at the bottom of the second link is the same I already have and if it is at Alexandria it would also confirm no radar and no aft HADT and pedestal. The photo is lighter than the copy I have and you can see the three shades of grey in the camo pattern. In the first link the simple profile drawing shows the aft HADT, but this is contradicted by the photo.

An unattributed photograph of Calcutta in Alan Raven British Cruiser Warfare: The Lessons of the Early War, 1939–1941 (Naval Institute Press, 2019), captioned as entering Alexandria in November 1940, shows her from the starboard quarter, in the same camouflage scheme as under discussion below. The photo is fairly grainy, but neither a foretopmast nor a second HA.DCT are visible. Some small details of the camouflage pattern differ from that shown in Alan Raven's camouflage book (and from that in Wright's book, but I am wary of trusting any of the configuration details, captions or colour schemes in his book unless corroborated by other evidence).

There is no indication from "as fitted" lists, Pink Lists etc that she ever received RDF.

Although not captioned as such, there is a photo of Calcutta in April 1941 showing her with HF/DF at the maintopmasthead (ie no air warning RDF), and no after HA.DCT. The photo (https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C47598) was taken between 2100 on 6 April (when bombing of Piraeus harbour began) and 0315 on 7 April (when Clan Fraser exploded) - the only cruisers in the harbour that night were Ajax, Perth and Calcutta. Calcutta's movements between that incident and her loss would not appear to have given an opportunity for either RDF (radar) or a second HACS to be fitted.

That is good detective work Tim. I have in my files a portside image of Calcutta in Suda (Souda) Bay taken mid/late April 41.
There is no aft HA turret fitted, her mainmast truck is fitted with a HF DF frame coil on pole extension, possibly an S17, she is not fitted with RDF.
There appears subtle differences in camo as shown in WSP Vol 1, including that on aft funnel.
Unfortunately before anyone asks, I will not upload this image, if interested contact my inbox and I will provide details where it can be obtained including catalogue number.

Thanks Brett,
You wrote "... no aft HA turret fitted ..." - did you mean there was no twin 4" HA/LA mounting in "Y" position, or were you referring to "X" position? I've seen to reference to either mounting being removed.

Thank you Tim and Brett for the additional information. I do have the new Raven book and read it last year, but did not remember the photos much. So the photo on page 107 is good to know about. I understand all the issues with Wright, but did not want to get into to all that with my original post, but only wanted to note that he and Raven were close to the same in their interpretations of the camo design. I posted this over on Steelnavy also and Dick responded with some great information corresponding to what you two have posted here. He also added that the camo design, as you noted Brett, is different from what Raven has in some ways and the photos should be studied closely to determine the design/layout. With my old eyes that will be hard for me to do, but will try. Dick also noted that colors are probably dull black, 507A, and 507C. That makes sense based on the tones of the colors in the photos. I have sent Brett a PM asking for information on how to order the photo he mentions.

With this great information we at least know in building the new 1/350 Trumpeter kit or 1/700 H-P kit of the Calcutta the aft HA director and pedestal should be left off.

Thanks again.

I was referring to an absence of Director turret on pedestal reportedly fitted to X gundeck, the image I have shows both rear gun turrets fitted.
I concur with Dick on colours of 507A, 507C and black.

In looking at the photos mentioned above and looking at the Trumpeter and H-P kits, it looks like Calcutta had splinter shield protection added to the sides of the 4" HA twin mounts. These are not included in the Trumpeter or H-P kits since it appears these kits are of the ships as proposed in 1939. By the time Calcutta was in the eastern Med it looks like the splinter shields had been added. There is a nice overhead view of HMS Carlisle in late 1941 on page 180 of the Raven book "British Cruiser Warfare" that shows these splinter shields around the 4" twins as fitted on Carlisle. Calcutta's may be similar. These shields will need to be added to build the Calcutta at time of loss or in the Eastern Med.