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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:36 pm 
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The armour including the extent of the armoured belt of the different ships was also different, i.e. the hull for each ship is characteristic.

The greys are both not very dark (more light greys) and are very similar.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:55 pm 
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I am scraping the Lutzow hull because it is not shaped like that of the Deutschland. The bow is much too elongated and sharp, and it is nearly shaped like a clipper bow. I solved the superstructure problem by grafting the forward part of the Graf Spee deck to just aft of the turret with the midships section of the Lutzow deck with the superstructure, finally grafting the Graf Spee quarterdeck with that. So, I have a perfectly shaped hull for Deutschland with the correct shapes for the superstructure.

By the way, the Lutzow hull from the Heller kit is also wrong for the Lutzow, due to the issues with the bow and forecastle.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:44 pm 
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Not to the extreme that the kit has. But, if you want the Heller parts, you are welcome to them.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:47 pm 
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The review that you sent is not right in quite a few respects. First, Heller's three Panzerschiffe do not share the same hull halves. On the contrary, the hulls are unique to the individual kit. Second, the hull halves provided in the Lutzow kit is not accurate in that the stem rake is too pronounced, the forward deck is too narrow, and there is no outward flare of the hull. The main armament turrets are too angled, the tubular foremast is too slim. The funnel cap is correct for mid 1942-1945, but AA fit is for late 1941-early 1942. The hull is the most difficult problem to overcome.

To me, the evaluation that the Heller Lutzow is "very good" means that the evaluator is unaware of the hull problem. This is one reason that I chose to use parts from the Graf Spee kit to convert the Lutzow to Deutschland. The Graf Spee hull is beautifully proportioned, the angles on the turret faces are appropriate, and I believe that I will have a much better model of this ship. I strongly recommend Roger Chesneau's book "German Pocket Battleships" in the Shipcraft series.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:45 pm 
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Marco wrote:
Currently assembling the Arado 196 A-1 of the Graf Spee right before the Battle of the River Plate (before dismantling). This is supposed to be an Ar-196 A-1, with only two machineguns (cowl and rear cockpit) and no external ordnance capability. But the Graf Spee Ar-196 pictures clearly show two 100pd bombs under the wings. Adaptation? A-1 Subtype? or Fake bombs?

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Marco


I guess it is the correct thing to close this question, as I got the answer already long time ago: The Graf Spee Arado 196 was an A1, indeed. What was wrong was the site where I found the technical characteristics of the A1. Long story short, the Arado 196 A1 carried one MG in the rear cockpit, and bomb racks under the wings. No cowl MG, no wings MG. The Arado 196 provided in the Trumpeter kit has very prominent wing MGs, have to be cut and sanded smooth.

Marco


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:51 pm 
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Location: southcoast,ma .
Hi.

Seen your comment on ship boats
Ideal a lot with shapeways designer distefan ,sasa drobac he is Serbian nice guy he has made many parts for me.
96 scale Bismarck, bb-59 mass. , admiral graf spee 192 scale he can make any boat or any parts you need .in 350 scale is
not expensive .it does by scale the larger the more it cost .I have MOLDS FOR 192 SCALE AGS .SASA HAS MADE THE TOWER ,STACK ,MAIN TURRETS, 105 , DIRECTORS .very detail parts of all the designers I deal with he's the most accommodating.
RICK50

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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 8:29 pm 
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Hi all, how much work is required to bring the Fujimi 1/700 Scheer up to a 1942-43 profile?
I see she had her stem partially altered to a clipper bow, how hard is this to replicate?


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 12:16 pm 
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The Fujimi 1/700 scale kit of Scheer represents her in pre-war configuration, with the original bridge tower, pole mainmast with aerial spreader and vertical stem. In late 1939 she was taken in hand for a major refit, in which the bridge structure was replaced by a cylindrical structure similar (but not identical) to that carried by her sister Deutschland, the bow (as stated) was replaced with the so-called "Atlantic Bow", a funnel cap was added and a tripod mainmast fitted, as well as other minor changes. As always, study of contemporary photographs and other references is recommended.


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:30 pm 
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DavidP wrote:
I presume it currently has the pre-atlantic bow?


Correct, I've done some sanding and given it a bit of an angle vs the straight stem.


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:36 pm 
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tjstoneman wrote:
The Fujimi 1/700 scale kit of Scheer represents her in pre-war configuration, with the original bridge tower, pole mainmast with aerial spreader and vertical stem. In late 1939 she was taken in hand for a major refit, in which the bridge structure was replaced by a cylindrical structure similar (but not identical) to that carried by her sister Deutschland, the bow (as stated) was replaced with the so-called "Atlantic Bow", a funnel cap was added and a tripod mainmast fitted, as well as other minor changes. As always, study of contemporary photographs and other references is recommended.


I'd like to add these parts:

https://www.shapeways.com/product/XV85J ... arketplace

https://www.shapeways.com/product/Z3TR6 ... arketplace

BTW,
Would the cranes that Hipper carried be the same as on the Deutschland class? I would assume so, as the same aircraft were carried.
These look better than the kit parts,

https://www.shapeways.com/product/FC7KF ... arketplace


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 3:53 am 
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DavidP wrote:
me, I would buildup the bow from the waterline to the main deck vertically with 1mm sheet plastic sandwich style then carve to shape like I did to my New Mexico's, Tennessee's & Colorado's in this link. viewtopic.php?f=59&t=165105
the bow deck is more tapered with the Atlantic bow then before as the ship is actually longer overall now then before. do you have in need of drawings of the 1942 Scheer as I have them on my computer? the crane is different between the 2 classes.



Thankyou, but no, I have some reference drawings of her in 42, 43, which show the angle of the bow quite well.

How much difference was there between the cranes, and why?


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:19 am 
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Regarding the bow:

what was exactly modified? For sure the shape of them stem, but also the anchors and many publications write that actually the shape of the forward part of the hull was altered, i.e. that the frames bend more outwards. That would indicate also a different shape of the deck.

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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:31 am 
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Very useful all that info DavidP,thanks a lot . :thumbs_up_1:

I am also doing that conversion ,but using the Trumpeter Graf Spee in 1/350 scale and the DiStefan pieces (bridge ,funnel and directors)so far the main issues for me are :

1) The bow
2) the main belt need to be raised up to the middle level windows
3) the stern anchor is backwards(in the Trump model)

But same as Bill ,I can not find any good info about the crane ,because AFAIK ,the Adm Scheer after her modernization carried only one crane in port side.

So far I corrected the bow and the stern anchor,need to work on the belt,but I believe is a nice conversion,my favorite Panzerschiff is the Scheer

BTW I did some surgery to the printed bridge to set the telemeter traversal instead of along side as it comes from Shapeways and was a pain in the butt


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IMG_20190508_183314_104.JPG [ 246.87 KiB | Viewed 8502 times ]
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IMG_20190508_183414_811.JPG [ 335 KiB | Viewed 8502 times ]

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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:56 am 
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DavidP wrote:
Miguel, what did you use to buildup the bow to correct shape?


I cutted the tip of the vow and attached a triangle of styrene of .080 thickness and used .005" strips of styrene in layers to cover and give volume then shape with wetsand paper,finished with primer and more sanding,but my main tool were my eyeballs.

,

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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 11:19 am 
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DavidP wrote:
maxim, are you certain on the bow as a lot easier to extend the bow to almost a point then to take some of the hull plating & decks off to bend the frames then have to replace all removed hull plating & decks due to dimension changes that occurred?


No, I am not certain. This change is mentioned in many publications ("Spantenausfall" in German). The refit was more extensive than the one of Lützow.

It looks different if seen from forward - but I do not find fitting photo in the internet.

I have the same impression after comparing the drawings in German Camouflage Volume One 1939-1941 by John Asmussen and Eric Leon - but the drawings are not to scale and I did not scan them to scale them.

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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 7:47 pm 
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Miguel wrote:
DavidP wrote:
Miguel, what did you use to buildup the bow to correct shape?


I cutted the tip of the vow and attached a triangle of styrene of .080 thickness and used .005" strips of styrene in layers to cover and give volume then shape with wetsand paper,finished with primer and more sanding,but my main tool were my eyeballs.

,


Nice job Miguel :thumbs_up_1:


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 8:21 pm 
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Ok, from "German Pocket Battleships" by Roger Chesneau.

Refit Summary: Admiral Scheer:
1935-1936 Catapult and aircraft handling crane added, aircraft embalked
1939 Wilhelmshaven Handling crane abrest funnel replaced
01 Feb - 31 Jul 1940 Wilhelmshaven Bows lengthened by 1.9 meters and remodeled to incorporate a raked stem, Handling crane renewed.

Looking at a color plate of her in 1940, she has only 1 crane port side, and a derrick for the ships boats, however, this is not supplied in the fujimi kit.


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 8:40 pm 
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Bill Clarke wrote:

Nice job Miguel :thumbs_up_1:


Thanks Bill much appreciated

and found a good picture of the Scheer crane maybe using part of the Di Stefan Hipper crane and bashing the kit crane can work to set that issue


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:21 pm 
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here's two of the color plates from Chesneau's book, note the boat boom/derrick


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File comment: Scheer 1943
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:37 pm 
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Miguel wrote:
Bill Clarke wrote:

Nice job Miguel :thumbs_up_1:


Thanks Bill much appreciated

and found a good picture of the Scheer crane maybe using part of the Di Stefan Hipper crane and bashing the kit crane can work to set that issue



Thanks Miguel, I might also have to kit bash the catapult to look like this.


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