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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:39 pm 
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In a video of the Graf Spee in Montevideo, this Medium Gray fine camo pattern seen on the front castle catched my attention. I have checked other pictures but can't distinguish any pattern similar to this one (too much light? or not close enough), nor is it represented in any drawings that I know. What do you think about it, did the Graf have the Medium Gray camo pattern on the front of the castle as well?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:44 pm 
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Currently assembling the Arado 196 A-1 of the Graf Spee right before the Battle of the River Plate (before dismantling). This is supposed to be an Ar-196 A-1, with only two machineguns (cowl and rear cockpit) and no external ordnance capability. But the Graf Spee Ar-196 pictures clearly show two 100pd bombs under the wings. Adaptation? A-1 Subtype? or Fake bombs?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:12 am 
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Greetings!

I am converting the old Heller 1/400 Lutzow into Deutschland, first by scrapping the hull and using their Graf Spee hull. I do know that she was painted in a light gray pre-war, but the shade of that gray has me baffled. Can someone here help me out?

Thanks!

Bill


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:13 pm 
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why are you going to scrap the Lutzow hull as you will have to scrap the Lutzow's forward superstructure too as both represent her later in the war? use the Graf Spee model as the basis for pre-war Deutschland & build the Lutzow during the war so you have a comparison of the same ship using the 2 models for 2 different time periods.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:36 pm 
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The armour including the extent of the armoured belt of the different ships was also different, i.e. the hull for each ship is characteristic.

The greys are both not very dark (more light greys) and are very similar.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:55 pm 
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I am scraping the Lutzow hull because it is not shaped like that of the Deutschland. The bow is much too elongated and sharp, and it is nearly shaped like a clipper bow. I solved the superstructure problem by grafting the forward part of the Graf Spee deck to just aft of the turret with the midships section of the Lutzow deck with the superstructure, finally grafting the Graf Spee quarterdeck with that. So, I have a perfectly shaped hull for Deutschland with the correct shapes for the superstructure.

By the way, the Lutzow hull from the Heller kit is also wrong for the Lutzow, due to the issues with the bow and forecastle.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:02 pm 
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the reason for the shape of the Lutzow hull is that it from later in the war. the clipper bow was installed during an overhaul in 1940. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_cr ... eutschland
http://www.modelerjoe.net/shipmodellist ... llerLutzow


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:44 pm 
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Not to the extreme that the kit has. But, if you want the Heller parts, you are welcome to them.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:47 pm 
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The review that you sent is not right in quite a few respects. First, Heller's three Panzerschiffe do not share the same hull halves. On the contrary, the hulls are unique to the individual kit. Second, the hull halves provided in the Lutzow kit is not accurate in that the stem rake is too pronounced, the forward deck is too narrow, and there is no outward flare of the hull. The main armament turrets are too angled, the tubular foremast is too slim. The funnel cap is correct for mid 1942-1945, but AA fit is for late 1941-early 1942. The hull is the most difficult problem to overcome.

To me, the evaluation that the Heller Lutzow is "very good" means that the evaluator is unaware of the hull problem. This is one reason that I chose to use parts from the Graf Spee kit to convert the Lutzow to Deutschland. The Graf Spee hull is beautifully proportioned, the angles on the turret faces are appropriate, and I believe that I will have a much better model of this ship. I strongly recommend Roger Chesneau's book "German Pocket Battleships" in the Shipcraft series.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:45 pm 
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Marco wrote:
Currently assembling the Arado 196 A-1 of the Graf Spee right before the Battle of the River Plate (before dismantling). This is supposed to be an Ar-196 A-1, with only two machineguns (cowl and rear cockpit) and no external ordnance capability. But the Graf Spee Ar-196 pictures clearly show two 100pd bombs under the wings. Adaptation? A-1 Subtype? or Fake bombs?

Image

Marco


I guess it is the correct thing to close this question, as I got the answer already long time ago: The Graf Spee Arado 196 was an A1, indeed. What was wrong was the site where I found the technical characteristics of the A1. Long story short, the Arado 196 A1 carried one MG in the rear cockpit, and bomb racks under the wings. No cowl MG, no wings MG. The Arado 196 provided in the Trumpeter kit has very prominent wing MGs, have to be cut and sanded smooth.

Marco


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:51 pm 
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Location: southcoast,ma .
Hi.

Seen your comment on ship boats
Ideal a lot with shapeways designer distefan ,sasa drobac he is Serbian nice guy he has made many parts for me.
96 scale Bismarck, bb-59 mass. , admiral graf spee 192 scale he can make any boat or any parts you need .in 350 scale is
not expensive .it does by scale the larger the more it cost .I have MOLDS FOR 192 SCALE AGS .SASA HAS MADE THE TOWER ,STACK ,MAIN TURRETS, 105 , DIRECTORS .very detail parts of all the designers I deal with he's the most accommodating.
RICK50

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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 8:29 pm 
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Hi all, how much work is required to bring the Fujimi 1/700 Scheer up to a 1942-43 profile?
I see she had her stem partially altered to a clipper bow, how hard is this to replicate?


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 12:01 pm 
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I presume it currently has the pre-atlantic bow?


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 12:16 pm 
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The Fujimi 1/700 scale kit of Scheer represents her in pre-war configuration, with the original bridge tower, pole mainmast with aerial spreader and vertical stem. In late 1939 she was taken in hand for a major refit, in which the bridge structure was replaced by a cylindrical structure similar (but not identical) to that carried by her sister Deutschland, the bow (as stated) was replaced with the so-called "Atlantic Bow", a funnel cap was added and a tripod mainmast fitted, as well as other minor changes. As always, study of contemporary photographs and other references is recommended.


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:30 pm 
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DavidP wrote:
I presume it currently has the pre-atlantic bow?


Correct, I've done some sanding and given it a bit of an angle vs the straight stem.


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:36 pm 
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tjstoneman wrote:
The Fujimi 1/700 scale kit of Scheer represents her in pre-war configuration, with the original bridge tower, pole mainmast with aerial spreader and vertical stem. In late 1939 she was taken in hand for a major refit, in which the bridge structure was replaced by a cylindrical structure similar (but not identical) to that carried by her sister Deutschland, the bow (as stated) was replaced with the so-called "Atlantic Bow", a funnel cap was added and a tripod mainmast fitted, as well as other minor changes. As always, study of contemporary photographs and other references is recommended.


I'd like to add these parts:

https://www.shapeways.com/product/XV85J ... arketplace

https://www.shapeways.com/product/Z3TR6 ... arketplace

BTW,
Would the cranes that Hipper carried be the same as on the Deutschland class? I would assume so, as the same aircraft were carried.
These look better than the kit parts,

https://www.shapeways.com/product/FC7KF ... arketplace


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:48 pm 
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me, I would buildup the bow from the waterline to the main deck vertically with 1mm sheet plastic sandwich style then carve to shape like I did to my New Mexico's, Tennessee's & Colorado's in this link. viewtopic.php?f=59&t=165105
the bow deck is more tapered with the Atlantic bow then before as the ship is actually longer overall now then before. do you have in need of drawings of the 1942 Scheer as I have them on my computer? the crane is different between the 2 classes.


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 3:53 am 
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DavidP wrote:
me, I would buildup the bow from the waterline to the main deck vertically with 1mm sheet plastic sandwich style then carve to shape like I did to my New Mexico's, Tennessee's & Colorado's in this link. viewtopic.php?f=59&t=165105
the bow deck is more tapered with the Atlantic bow then before as the ship is actually longer overall now then before. do you have in need of drawings of the 1942 Scheer as I have them on my computer? the crane is different between the 2 classes.



Thankyou, but no, I have some reference drawings of her in 42, 43, which show the angle of the bow quite well.

How much difference was there between the cranes, and why?


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 9:01 am 
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have a look at the bottom picture of 1939 Scheer in this link & compare it to the Hipper crane at Shapeways. http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ ... photo.html
there is 5yrs difference between commissions of Scheer & Hipper so things are learned & changed.


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:19 am 
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Regarding the bow:

what was exactly modified? For sure the shape of them stem, but also the anchors and many publications write that actually the shape of the forward part of the hull was altered, i.e. that the frames bend more outwards. That would indicate also a different shape of the deck.

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