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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:01 pm 
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Looking for some help please, I intend to build the Mirage HMS St Albans as she was in 1943 when she was returned to the RN. The pictures in the two links from the IWM and U-boat net, look to be about the same time period. Compared to the kit the single gun tubs are in different locations and the anchor crane looks to have been removed also there is a boat on the portside, any information or best guess welcome. The two pictures that I found on the internet show a similar pattern to the kit instructions but the colours are much different, does anyone know what MS3 light would be, maybe a mix of white and MS3. Any help appreciated thank you Al.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item ... /205120692 , https://uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/5886.html


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Annotation 2020-08-19 175540.png
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:32 pm 
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This probably isn't going to be helpful, at least for her camo, but I scanned these images at the US National Archives of HMS St ALBANS (I.15) taken as she completed an overhaul at BosNY in December 1943. Shortly after the photos were taken I understand she was placed in reserve in early 1944, then transferred to the USSR. Maybe some of the configuration details can be of help

When I scanned these images, I thought she was still operating with a Norwegian crew and under their flag. These views show her portside, which shows that the camo pattern doesn't look much like the patterns you have posted for the starboard side.

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:56 am 
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The two photos posted by Rick show St Albans flying a Norwegian ensign. Does this mean that she was still Norwegian manned in late 1943 (despite some references giving the date of reversion to British manning as autumn 1942), or is the date on the photos wrong?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:17 am 
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Miss-identification of ships and dates can be a fairly regular thing in Navy photos, but generally happens to photos that were passed from the originator to another command for whatever purpose. These are Boston Navy Yard Photos and the photo number indicates they were shot in 1943. Most of the yards around this time used a numbering system that essentially started sequentially at the beginning of the year and tacked the last two digits of the year at the end. Even if there's no date on the photo but there is a yard photo number one can at least determine the year and sometimes early/middle/late by how high the initial number is.

I would rate it very high that these dates are accurate.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:20 am 
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For what it's worth, I have a book on the Norwegian navy (Sverre Mo's Norske Marinefartøy), which has St. Albans as under Norwegian command until February 4, 1944.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:18 am 
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MS3 light is a figment of someone's imagination. The coloured illustration of the 1943 camouflage on St Albans and the book it came from is best ignored.

St Albans’ 1943 camouflage design comes from CAFO 679/42 Plate 28. It appears that St Albans wore it first on emerging from her Falmouth refit in October 1942. It is obviously an Admiralty Dark Medium Type as per CAFO 2146/42. If applied by the book this would mean the paint colours at that time should have been 507A, B5 and MS4 as marked up on this photo:
Attachment:
St Albans 1942 10 29 maybe FL3344 & FL 8535 - Copy.jpg
St Albans 1942 10 29 maybe FL3344 & FL 8535 - Copy.jpg [ 262.21 KiB | Viewed 206 times ]

The paints in the Boston December 1943 photos look slightly different. The bow paint panel seems darker than before (the same as the dark further aft) and the draught marks are showing up much lighter than before; the forward two funnels are now all the darkest tone; the pendant number is smaller. It appears that she has been repainted and it may be that the scheme has been simplified to just two colours on the hull but maybe the bridge has been painted a third, lighter, tone? Further we can perhaps speculate that instead of the B&G Series RN 1943 paints she has been repainted by Boston NY using USN equivalents.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:28 pm 
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Thank you to everyone who has responded and all the information. Firstly I’ve got my information from the internet so it's limited, as to if she went back to the RN in late 42, two sites I’ve found do not mention her being returned to the RN and going to the Russians in 1944, however they use HMS rather HNoMS and both have exactly the same wording. The other two sites state late 42 going back to the RN, with different text. Rick’s photos show her without the single gun tubs whereas the Uboat net and photo from the IWM have these. I thought AAA was increased as the war progressed so are these pictures later? All show the port side ships boat, there do not seem to be any pictures of her as she is depicted in the kit. Dick thank you for the camo guide I think I’ll go with that, though need to find some acrylic MS4. Al.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:31 pm 
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1941
March
Under repair. Nominated for transfer to Royal Norwegian Navy.

W a r S e r v i c e a s H N o r M S S T A L B A N S
April
Norwegian ship's company joined for turnover.
14th - Refit work completed.
22nd - Transferred to Royal Norwegian Navy for loan service. (Note: Name was unchanged.)

1 9 4 4
January
Paid-off and laid up in Reserve.
February to May
Laid-up. Nominated for transfer on loan to Soviet Navy after refit.

T r a n s f e r t o R u s s i a n N a v y
June
Passage to Tyne
2nd - Taken in hand for refit at Palmers shipyard, Hebburn.
July
Russian ship's company joined ship.
16th - Formally transferred to Soviet Northern Fleet and renamed DOSTOINY.
T r a n s f e r t o R u s s i a n N a v y

http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono ... Albans.htm


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:15 pm 
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David,

I referenced this source prior to posting the images. I have found from comments by people more familiar with RN ship histories, that Naval-History.net has some questionable information

You left out the part that has caused confusion;

August to September 1942

Under refit. Norwegian personnel replaced by RN. Nominated for service in Western Approaches Command for convoy escort.


Service as HMS St ALBANS

October 1942

Commissioned for RN service.

29th - Refit completion and passage to Tobermory for work-up after post refit trials.


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