The Ship Model Forum

Bill,

I'm not a camo expert, but here is what the colors should be for FLETCHER from what I understand:

HULL: Ocean Gray (5-O) with Navy Blue (5-N) splotches

SUPERSTRUCTURE VERTICAL SURFACES: Hase Gray (5-H) with Ocean Gray splotches

DECKS and HORIZONTAL SURFACES (tops of torpedo tubes, gun mounts, directors, etc): Deck Blue (20-B)

An On-Line reference for USN camo schemes is at ... http://www.shipcamouflage.com/warship_camouflage.htm ... with a specific description of Ms 12(mod) http://www.shipcamouflage.com/measure_12_modified.htm ... this definition dated from late 1941 and was before Sea Blue was discontinued and replaced by Navy Blue well before FLETCHER was completed.

Here are a couple of images I have posted before showing FLETCHER fitting out at her builder prior to delivery on 26 June 1942. They show some of the hard to see areas from on-line photos.

Guys, not being a Fletcher expert by any stretch, I wanted to check in with the experts who hang out here. I'm interested in building the Revell 1/144 Fletcher as a square bridge ship. Can anybody tell me which, if any, of the square bridge Flecher's can be built from this kit without too much additional modification/scratch building? TIA,

Bob

_________________
Give me a fast ship, for I would like to get out of harm's way!

Hi Bob, I have nearly completed the scratch built conversion of the Revell 144th scale kit to a square bridge version. You will only need to build the forward Deckhouse on the 1st deck and the Bridge and Pilothouse above that. The deckhouse on the main deck immediately behind this needs a small change only.

The Fletcher Class e-book of plans and photos (343 PDF pages on a CD) available from Tom at Floating Drydock will give you just about everything you will need to pull this off.

From what I can see, you would be able to model any square bridge Fletcher Class DD you wish.

Best regards
Peter

The "simplest" Square-Bridge conversion up to a point would be one of the first Square-Bridge units completed with the fantail twin 40-mm mount.

DD-518 BROWNSON
DD-526 ABNER READ
DD-527 AMMEN

The problem with the Square-Bridge conversion set from Nautilus, is that the Square-Bridge is the second type that was modified to allow for the forward twin 40-mm mounts. Actually the Floating Drydock FLETCHER class Plan Book (paper or e-Book) completely ignores the original Square-Bridge design built/installed on the early "Revised Open-Bridge" FLETCHERS that were completed to either the 4-40mm or 6-40mm configurations ... which there were quite a few that served in that configuration well into late 1944 (like USS KIDD).

Since the conversion set is resin, I'm not sure of how easy it would be to modify the bridge to be accurate for the early bridge. The pilothouse on both types of "Square-Bridge" units are the same, but they cut back the 01 level deckhouse below the pilothouse to allow room for the twin 40-mm mounts before the bridge, and modified the front of the bridge walk-around on the navigation bridge level.

The other option is to go full-monty and use the conversion set to a ten 40-mm (five twin 40-mm and seven 20mm guns) configured unit, of which there are quite a few individual FLETCHER class options available.

BROWNSON (DD-518) as completed on 3 February 1943


AMMEN (DD-527) as completed in March 1943, she actually served in the Aleutians in this configuration.


The typical early revised open-bridge configuration


My drawing showing the differences for the 01 level deckhouse below the bridge

Do any of your Fletcher experts know of any early square bridge Fletchers that had the raised after Bofors mount between turrets 53 and 54, or did all of the square bridge Fletchers have this mount lowered? If so, what would be involved in converting the raised "sky mount" to the lowered mount appropriate for an early square bridge ship? Also, did any of the early square bridge Fletchers have the forward 20 mm mounts as found on the stock Revell Fletcher kit?

Bob

_________________
Give me a fast ship, for I would like to get out of harm's way!

No ... the original one deck higher medium AA mount between 53 and 54 mount was limited to the first few Original Closed Bridge FLETCHER units. The lowered 53-54 mount installation AND the fantail twin 40-mm mount was standard on the Revised Open Bridge FLETCHERS from the start. All of the Square-bridge FLETCHERS were completed after the elevated 20-mm gun was added. There were several different versions of this elevated centerline tub depending on which yard built the ship. Compared to the tub used on the Round-bridge units, it was more angular (see photos above).

To "convert" to the lowered position ... look at the photos I posted above ... you start by leaving off the elevated "tub" down to the 01 deckhouse and build the lowered "tub" and an elevated Mk 51 (or Mk 49) director at the forward end. There were two styles of "tubs" for the lower installation ... the "standard tear-drop" that was on all production FLETCHERS and the Mare Island Navy Yard style installed on many FLETCHERS modified or repaired at MINY. Also, the aft conn station that WAS under the elevated AA position was relocated to the fore end of the Searchlight Platform (first on the second stack and then with the addition of the waist twin 40-mm mounts, to the forward stack).

If you go back in this thread there are multiple postings of drawings and photos doing just this same thing. You can also invest ($30) in the Destroyer History Foundation " BIW FLETCHER Class Engineering Drawings" DVD ... http://destroyerhistory.org/destroyers/store/ ...

Refer to the following pages in this thread:

Pg 16 has a close-up view of a "Standard" tub between 53 and 54 mounts.

Pg 9 and 42 have views of the MINY tub between 53 and 54 mounts.

Pg 30 has several attachments about the first Revised Open (Square) Bridge verse the Revised-Revised Open (Square) Bridge installed on FLETCHERS.

Pg 40 and 50 have views and discussion about the design/layout of the "Standard" tub between 53 and 54 mounts, along with plans of the various revised platforms for the Searchlights and waist twin 40-mm mounts directors, and the forward elevated platform for a 20-mm gun before the bridge (on the Original Closed Bridge units like the Revell kit has).

If you have not figured it out yet, the Revell 1/144 scale FLETCHER kit is very limited in what can be modeled with it "out-of-the-box" without a lot of work. I thought that Revell would come out with a whole series of FLETCHER kits to cover the gambit of variations. But, so far all they have produced are two groups of very limited kits (early FLETCHER representative of seven units and the Post-WWII Z-1 class of FLETCHERS of six units). Even at that, Revell has produced an incomplete kit ... lacking bridge equipment and even having the WRONG Mk 37 Director Mod ... they have a Taper-back Mk 37 ... only used on SIMS and BENSON-GLEAVES class units ... instead of the Square-back Mk 37 director.

This guy on another website has documented many (but not all) of the errors with the Revell kit with his build of the CHEVALIER (DD-451) ...

... http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=322.0 ...

Thanks Rick. I suspected you might have the answer to my question.

Bob

_________________
Give me a fast ship, for I would like to get out of harm's way!

Got CAD models of the USS Kidd (late war) and USS Nicholas (FRAM) done:

Here are a couple of 1/144 Fletcher as the USS JOHNSTON photos, Sorry about the quality, my camera broke and have to use the video camera for photos

Shows the enlarged fwd 20mm tub to 40mm, and square bridge


The aft heart shaped 20mm tub, nothing is glued down yet


Another shot of the bridge area

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On the Table - 1/350 USS Arizona

In the Stack - 1/700 Titanic

Very Nice Kevin !

Is the rear 20mm "tub" the resin version or is that your scratch-build?....very clean!

It's scratch built, I haven't located a resin tub. I'm kind of at a loss on how to proceed with the 40mm guns. I can attempt to scratch the rails that go around the gun, but I am hesitant because if they are not squared up it will look really bad. Or I can get 4 more Eduard weapons sets, but that almost is too much to get all those frets just for 1 set of railings out of each set.... not to mention the cost.

_________________
On the Table - 1/350 USS Arizona

In the Stack - 1/700 Titanic

Kevin, that is some great looking work. Amazingly clean PE, way better than anything I do. I can't wait to see this one in the Gallery, where it belongs!

Bob

_________________
Give me a fast ship, for I would like to get out of harm's way!

Thanks Bob, did you receive those items yet? I wasn't sure so I put all of the sides in there.

_________________
On the Table - 1/350 USS Arizona

In the Stack - 1/700 Titanic

Kevin, haven't gotten them yet. When did you mail them?

Bob

_________________
Give me a fast ship, for I would like to get out of harm's way!

I cannot define if the JOHNSTON had K-Gun racks or not.... USS LAWS (DD 558) appears to have them. Anyone have any information to this? NVM... a little searching on this site answered my question.... 6 K-Gun racks...Thanks
Kevin

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On the Table - 1/350 USS Arizona

In the Stack - 1/700 Titanic

Kevin, I got your e-mail. For some reason I couldn't reply directly, so I thought I'd do it here. I'll let you know when I get the parts you sent. I may get them tomorrow.

Thanks for your help.

Bob

_________________
Give me a fast ship, for I would like to get out of harm's way!

Kevin,

Yes JOHNSTON had the reload racks. The single row racks to be specific. Some FLETCHER units late in the war received double racks ... two rows of racks per K-Guns. LAWS was a sister to JOHNSTON, built at the same yard right after JOHNSON, so she should be a good surrogate.

A couple of more shots of the work in progress.... I've got serious model ADD.... I have like 10 things I'm doing at the same time

The hull



Shows the searchlight platform on the fwd stack


Shows the aft 40mm tub and mk51 director

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On the Table - 1/350 USS Arizona

In the Stack - 1/700 Titanic

Kevin,

You are doing pretty good, those are nice looking twin 40-mm mounts and the Square-bridge came together well. But you are off on a couple of items. The waist main deck 20-mm guns were moved forward closer to the waist twin 40-mm mounts for FLETCHERS with the waist 40-mm mounts. The Mk 37 director needs to be lowered from the higher installation used on the Round-bridge FLETCHERS. Also, JOHNSTON didn't have the "Mare Island" style tub for the twin 40-mm mount between the 53 and 54 mounts. She had the "teardrop" shape "tub".

Of course it is up to you how you which to model your ship.

Thanks Rick. I know I am off on a few things, this is the first ship I have done attempting to scratch build items. I am learning a lot through this process (mainly figuring out that I need WAY more practice). That aft 40mm tub drove me crazy. I attempted several times to build the teardrop tub, but all of them seemed too small when the gun was placed in there. When I built a larger one to fit the gun, it overhung too far, so I just went with this type.

I do appreciate the feedback.

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On the Table - 1/350 USS Arizona

In the Stack - 1/700 Titanic