The Ship Model Forum

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Oops my bad, I used the LCS-2 review as a template and forgot to change the decal image.

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Timothy Dike
Owner & Administrator
ModelWarships.com

Okay, so I get this right...

LCS1 is a standard hull ship that has no means of holding a VLS system and the LCS2 design(the trimaran hull) has plans for a VLS but won't be operational for several more years, and both these ships have to be outfitted with proprietary modules to switch missions? And these replaced the OHPclass why???? sorry, had to vent

So are all Freedom class armed alike? Same question for the Independence class. Are CIWS/ SEARAM / and or RAM launchers to be the same on every ship or are there differences that are apparent in the different kits now. I think I see multiple ships available from Cyberhobby but I'm lacking the ability to tell if they are the same kit with just diferent markings or are they portrayed different?

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So many models... So little time...

Yes, she can, but it will reduce her helicopter capability.

Yes. She has plans and space just foward of the super structure.

Because the Navy messed up its ship procurement by chasing the "save money" dragon instead of the "mission accomplisment" necessity.

Each class will have the same weapon systems standard. LCS-1 class have the Mk110 57mm gun and 21-cell RAM. The LCS-2 class have the same 57mm gun but the 11-cell SeaRAM.

The Cyberhobby kits are accurate.

LCS 1 is going to look different than the rest of the Freedom-class. She is a little shorter and has bouancy tanks "water wings" on her stern. LCS-3 is longer and has a flush stern.

I hope that helps!

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Proper Preparation Prevents Poor Performance

The answer is Rumsfeld. Rumsfeld had a Gee-Wiz attitude about weapons systems. LCS went from a FFL to BSG, and then theoretical savings ran into hard reality. Any more belonges over at Rant. For all the hoopla over armament these ships will most likely spend their careers chaseing pirates and drug smugglers. The 57mm gun is a model brought in from Europe by BAe. Its been around as long as the 76mm OTO Martella Super-Rapid. Its greatest virtues are that it carries lots of ammo, can shoot fast, jams less often than the 76mm, and has a smaller crew. The USN has lots of ships that can do fire support, the 57mm would do a gret job of clearing the Gulf of Iranian high speed attack boats; which is the kind of job it suited form. In a situation like that an Arleigh Burke or Tico will be close enough to provide air defense, and both hull types can haul ass if they get in over their heads. RAM is a good CIWS. Its very agile and an anti-ship missile can't detect its passive IR homing device.

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║ Seasick║
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Keep in mind as well that of all the combat capabilities that the Americans have, it's mine-countermeasures that's most lacking and is in most desperate need of modernization. The way forward for mine-hunting/clearing is via airborne means, which means a ship capable of carrying a decent amount of helos. It is difficult to imagine a ship smaller than an LCS that can also maintain a two-helo hangar + flight deck capability.

So since you need a ship that can carry a helo wing, you might as well give it some basic defensive armament. But there's no strategic need, really, to give them much more, because whenever will you expect mine-hunters to operate all on their lonesome in a war?

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De quoi s'agit-il?

Thanks for all the input. That clears up my kit confusion, and I appreciate the explanations for the set ups.

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So many models... So little time...

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Airborne methods are the only means of neutralizing mines swiftly and safely. Unmanned underwater vehicles (UUVs) like SeaFox are slow and subject to the myriad currents that run in the world's waterways (impact of currents can be clearly seen in the Dardanelles attempt in 1915). Their ranges are also limited, requiring the "mothership" to sail dangerously close to (or even in) a suspected minefield. This range will be even more limited if the UUV has to waste precious fuel struggling against said currents. Using sonar and electro-optical means to locate mines is a tedious process - when you can only deploy one or two UUVs from a mothership each time, it's going to take a while to get to all the (suspected) mines.

The USN recognizes this, and thus the shift towards SH-60-based MCM methods for the LCS MPs. The Airborne Laser Mine Detection System (ALMDS) in theory allows the helicopter to fly over the water, shining a LiDAR into the water to search for mines close to the water's surface - obviously, this is much faster than having to send a 6-knot UUV, pinging away with its sonar for hours. Originally, the SH-60 MCM package was to include a 30mm cannon for blasting any found mines - sadly, the technical obstacles of compensating for water refraction was deemed too difficult to overcome (at least, for the cost), cancelling this program. In its place will be the Airborne Mine Neutralization System (AMNS), which is basically a quad-pack of SeaFox-like single-use munitions. They'll be dropped from the SH-60 in the vicinity of a suspected/located mine, and will swim up to the mine to destroy it. Not as idea as the original 30mm cannon, as it will be slower, but at least it's a lot better than sailing an Avenger into the minefield.

Of course, this is only for the majority of mines that are tethered to the ocean floor and are within a dozen or so metres of the water's surface. The more ingenious (and expensive, and hence less frequently used) ones are located on the ocean floor - these will require a more intensive and time-consuming effort. For now, these deep mines will have to be hunted for by slow UUVs. The trend, however, is to "aerialize" the process - I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of dipping sonar is adapted for aerial deepwater mine hunting.

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De quoi s'agit-il?

I hope our British friends aren't falling for the ill-conceived LCS 'Mission module" concept...

Andrew P, PBFHS
Chesapeake, Virginia

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Joint Concept Note 1/12: Future 'Black Swan' Class Sloop-of-War: A Group System

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/Micro ... System.htm

The aim of this Joint Concept Note is to act as a catalyst for a conceptually led change to both the procurement and the employment of future maritime capabilities with investment in systems not platforms.

The future ‘Black Swan’ class sloop-of-war is a manned ship that will act as the core for a group of manned and unmanned platforms which, as an integrated system, will provide the units of power required by those surface assets tasked with the protection of Sea Lines of Communication and sea control. At an acceptable financial cost, operating in groups, the sloops will provide both the quantity of platforms and the quality of systems that will be demanded of the Royal Navy in the future operating environment. In operations other than war, the increased hull numbers will provide the capabilities required to fulfil the maritime security tasks demanded by a maritime nation as well as the global presence required to engage with the international community.

The name of the concept is drawn from the ‘Black Swan’ and modified ‘Black Swan’ class sloop-of-war, which were built during World War II to protect shipping and gain sea control. Like this concept, the key to the tactical proficiency of the sloops was not the single ship but rather the ‘group system’ with capability measured collectively in groups rather than individually in single platforms. The most famous of these being Captain Johnnie Walker’s 2nd Support Group, which - comprising of six ‘Black Swan’ class sloops - was the most successful anti-submarine group of the war.

Joint Concept Note (JCN) 1/12: Future 'Black Swan' Class Sloop-of-War:
For detailed specifications of the Future Black Swan Class Sloop-of-War use this LINK PDF [212.4 KB]

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Andrew P, PBFHS
Chesapeake, Virginia
www.PBFHS.org

It's probably not ill-conceived at all. US just screwed up trying to execute the plan. A very succesful version of mission modules exists in the Danish Navy, where recently another ship was added to the inventory of ships that can use their STANFLEX system. It's a pretty genious system and they can share weapons packages among frigates, corvettes and FACs now (along with minehunting, including unmanned minehunting drones for the FACs). They are using this concept for a long time now and don't seem to have any problem with it at all.
Arguably their main electronics, including the air search radar are still fixed on the ship, they can't exchange that yet.

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The merchant shipyard

And how far from Danish naval facilities, where the modules may be exchanged, do Danish ships operate? How long does it take to change the Danish modules. Are the modules integrated with any of the ship's sensors?

They operate everywhere. The modules can be flown in or shipped ahead since they're rather small and light.
As far as I know the Esbern Snare was taking part in Piracy operations in Gulf of Aden some time as well. I've met some of their Flyvefisken ships with a drone for minehunting too.

Here's a rather extensive explanation on the system. Pretty good actually, some of these things I hadn't read before either. If a 15 ton crane suffices, it's not so hard to load a larger auxiliary ship with these modules to support several ships quite far from base. One drawback I can think of is the loss of space. If you place two 6-cell Sea Sparrow units next to each other you have a 12-cell VLS, while I think you might mount a 16-cell fixed version on the same footprint.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StanFlex

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The merchant shipyard

Some shots from Freedom's Facebook page:

Here's a great photo of the semi-floodable boat deck on LCS 1: http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-a ... 1217_n.jpg

An album with a great shot of the same area without a boat in the way: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 452&type=3

More posters of the side door purpose: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 452&type=3

As well, here is a set of drydock photos, showing Freedom with a red hull: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 452&type=3

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De quoi s'agit-il?

Courtesy of Dave Baker, here is the newly authorized Camo Scheme to be applied to USS FREEDOM (LCS-1) prior to her deployment.

I have no idea on the "exact" paints being used (assume standard USN colors) or anything else about these ships, just passing on the info.

So its official then?! I saw that on another site but thought it just fiction. Will be interesting to see her once painted.

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Drawing Board:
1/700 Whiff USS Leyte and escorts 1984
1/700 Whiff USN Modernized CAs 1984
1/700 Whiff ASW Showdown - FFs vs SSGN 1984

Slipway:
1/700 Whiff USN ASW Hunter Killer Group Dio 1984

Yep, it's official that she's currently in dock being painted in a camo scheme:
http://www.seapowermagazine.org/stories ... eedom.html

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De quoi s'agit-il?

Man, I'm going to have to get an LCS now, cool!

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Drawing Board:
1/700 Whiff USS Leyte and escorts 1984
1/700 Whiff USN Modernized CAs 1984
1/700 Whiff ASW Showdown - FFs vs SSGN 1984

Slipway:
1/700 Whiff USN ASW Hunter Killer Group Dio 1984

Defense News has a copy of the camo scheme, with a much more neutral (and probably accurate) set of tones: http://www.defensenews.com/article/2013 ... al-Warfare

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De quoi s'agit-il?

Oh yeah? Maybe you will have to beat me to it

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Proper Preparation Prevents Poor Performance