The Ship Model Forum

A couple of things.

A Sky Lookout Chair is on the bridge of HAZELWOOD ... it is just forward of the Torpedo Director and covered with canvas.

Installations on Round-Bridge and Square-Bridge units are different.

The Sky Lookout Chairs were relocated from the navigation bridge to the pilothouse roof on at least some units in 1945 during the Anti-Kamikaze mod refits. I'm not sure when they started to relocated the chairs.

I think that VAN VALKENBURGH's Lookout Chairs were likely still on the navigation bridge in February 1945.

The Sky Lookout Chairs were removed from Post-WWII FLETCHERS. So the KIDD crew had to reinstall them ... did they get the right version ... I don't know.

Thank you, RIck. Once again...you are the MAN! I will put them (if I can model them decently) on the Nav Bridge. Based on Hazelwood, maybe one per side. The photos showing the Van Valkenburgh's bridge and pilot house clearly show they are not on the forward corners of the pilot house roof, but there is so much going on at the bridge level that it is hard to make out equipment.

PeeJay

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So many ships to model and so little time . . . .

The object at the front of railing on the top of the pilothouse is a "Loudspeaker".

I don't know what the "cylinders" are in the structure on REMEY's pilothouse roof ... they are not helmets.

Ahhh ... I found these "cylinders" called out on drawings for BENNION (DD-662) and RICHARD P. LEARY (DD-664) ... they are the amplifiers for the loudspeakers.

Peejay,

the large item in the 1st picture is indeed something that makes lots of noise: just not from Elvis: a siren or klaxon of some sort. (by the shape of the horn it was to made to produce a high pitched noise ... probably not voice)

as for the next two pictures it would have helped if you had used a photo editing program to draw a circle around whatever you were referring to. I have no clue ...

on the 2nd pic: If you are referring to the items in the upper left edge of the pic (?) those appear to be tubes of some type with weather-tight covers of some sort ... holders for signal flags??? ... but that probably isn't what you are talking about.
on the 3rd pic: I don't know except that I don't think the BarcaLounger was standard equipment.

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Мощность для рабочих, которые просто пытаются построить простой судна под строгим тиранов! - В. И. Ленин

Hello from Elk & Steelhead country and Cody the Incorrigible Cat

Hello everyone, I am new to this forum but not new to building models. I am currently building Revells German destroyer class 119 Z1. Being a huge Fletcher fan (generally post-war ones) I chose to build this kit as a test run to eventually turning one into either USS Uhlmann or Mullany. My question is in reference to the two single tube ASW launchers one deck below on either side of the MK 15 torpedo tube launcher. Are these single MK 32 tubes or are they German domestic designed and produced Tubes for perhaps a DMa1 torpedo or an American MK 44/46. The only thing I know of them is that they are 53cm and are for ASW use. I have never seen single ASW tubes on American DD's or DE's only triples out on deck and doubles inside a ship.
Thanks for the help in advance.
Mike.

The single torpedo tubes are strictly a German model, not used on USN destroyers. They launched their own ASW torpedo that was much larger than the Mk 43/44/46 ASW torpedoes launched from the Mk 32 ASW TT. I can't recall the model number for the German torpedo used.

The following comments are based on examination of on-line photos of the kit, since I have never seen the kit itself in box or built in person.

Converting the 1/144 scale German Z-1 FLETCHER class kit to an USN 4-Gun FLETCHER will require some work. First off the six German Z-1 class were converted early "Round faced Bridge" FLETCHERS and the whole bridge would need to be replaced. Scratch-building a new bridge to represent the Square face Bridge FLETCHERS that were upgraded to the 4-Gun configuration seen on MULLANY and UHLMANN would be required. And by the way, MULLANY retained an unique bridge configuration, based on the initial Square-bridge footprint, for post-war FLETCHERS and would require a different bridge build than UHLMANN or any other 4-Gun FLETCHER. Making either bridge is doable. Also, some of the radar and other antennas suite were different on German destroyers. Depending on the timeframe of your build, additional changes would be required. The radar suites on the FLETCHERS varied from 1951 to 1960s for individual units and after various upgrades. MULLANY actually was one of the very few 4-Gun FLETCHERS to retain a pole foremast for a period of time before getting a tripod mast. The Mk 15 torpedo tube mount was eventually replaced by two triple Mk 32 ASW TT mounts (about 1962-63). Also, there were other ASW torpedo "launching" systems (two different types from 1955 to 1962) used on these two Pacific based destroyers to launch the Mk 32 ASW torpedo, plus another for the Mk 43 ASW torpedo. I don't know if Revell molded on the mine rails or left them as add-ons, if molded on ... they would need to be removed.

There are some other errors on the Revell FLETCHER kits that if you want accuracy, would need to be fixed. The one I find the most shameful is having the wrong version of the Mk 37 director. They modeled an earlier "taper-backed" Mk 37 used on SIMS-BENSON-GLEAVES class destroyers instead of the "square-backed" Mk 37 director used on FLETCHERS-SUMNERS-GEARINGS.

I was actually wondering if someone could shed some light on to why the Mullany had such an unusual bridge. I Know she was hit by a kamikaze late in the war but so was the Hazelwood and her bridge was repaired to the normal spec. Any Ideas? The unusual bridge looks real roomy but then again from what I can tell its just a canvas covered open area..

Mike,

do you have a pic or link to a picture that would reference what you are referring to? (just for us that aren't aquainted with this)

In 1943 she was repaired but didn't seem to undergo changes to the bridge

http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/0552818.jpg

.... but in 1963 she did have the bridge changed


http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/0552805.jpg

***from http://www.navsource.org

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Мощность для рабочих, которые просто пытаются построить простой судна под строгим тиранов! - В. И. Ленин

Hello from Elk & Steelhead country and Cody the Incorrigible Cat

The first ship is the USS Uhlmann, with the standard postwar square bridge configuration. The second is the Mullany with her unique square bridge


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I may be incorrect (the admiral tells me I always am) but in that picture the square bridge design on the Mullany looks to be as built post the high/round bridge designs (ie:1942/43).

Whereas the Ulhmann appears, in that picture, to be after some post-war modifications.

maybe somebody who is an expert can clarify this for us?

_________________
Мощность для рабочих, которые просто пытаются построить простой судна под строгим тиранов! - В. И. Ленин

Hello from Elk & Steelhead country and Cody the Incorrigible Cat

I know Mullany was a square bridge from the start. The only round or high bridge Fletchers the USN operated post war seem to be those converted to DDE's and the 3 FRAM I's, unless I am wrong as well

Hi,

See my earlier questions regarding the Mullany in this thread.

Mullany became unique in being the only square bridge Fletcher to retain the original (wider front) square bridge Fletcher base superstructure. Her lower front superstructure was never cut back to allow space for the forward twin 40mms

On Mullany this pushed the forward twin 40mms further forward in her, and her sister ships Ammen and Bush, when they were completed in WW2.

Bush was sunk, and Ammen had her lower bridge cut back after the war, whereas Mullany's wasn't.

Mullany was hit by a kamikaze on the aft superstructure between turrets three and four.

I hope that helps.

Sandy

Sandy, gave you the right answer. Here is the link to the "latest" time I posted these drawings showing the difference from the original Square-Bridge (w/three 20-mm guns forward) and the revised Square-Bridge (w/two twin 40-mm mounts) ...
... viewtopic.php?f=49&t=8105&start=1000#p470105 ...

The three FLETCHERS with this configuration, AMMEN, MULLANY, and BUSH, were the first three SQUARE-BRIDGE FLETCHERS modified with forward twin 40-mm mounts. The work was done at Beth-SF (their builder) as part of their Post-Shakedown work. They didn't wait for the final plans from Gibbs-Cox/USN Boston Navy Yard and used this layout, which may have been based on an earlier scheme.

Why MULLANY never had her bridge modified like her surviving sister AMMEN, is a bit of a mystery. AMMEN was updated when she was recommissioned at Charleston Naval Shipyard in 1951. Her forward 40-mm bulwarks, along with some of the other bulwarks on the ship, were in poor shape and when they "repaired" those they fixed the bridge to the "standard". MULLANY didn't have that done when she was recommissioned, reason unknown. I'm pretty sure once they realized that the forward twin 40-mm mounts were being removed anyway and two hedgehogs replacing them, that there was no reason to modify the bridge. Both AMMEN and MULLANY were modified to the 4-Gun mod as well ... at different yards.

Specific to the USS Van Valkenburgh (DD-656), my ship of interest, the photos posted by Rick Davis of DD-656 alongside USS Nevada reveal an open structure atop the pilot house and forward of the director, that, in at least one shot, has a person on it. I think it may be a single lookout platform, or perhaps a single signalman's platform instead of the ones on each side of other DD's. I have re-posted the Van Valkenburgh photos here. I have been unable to re-post an aerial view of a very closely numbered ship, the USS Cotten (DD669), which shows a similar structure. That view was posted by Rick Davis on page 60 of this forum (USS Cotten in New York Harbor (DD669x8-14Aug43.jpg), and when I zoom on the photo, I can see a similar open-frame structure that may be some type of observation platform.

PeeJay

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So many ships to model and so little time . . . .

The platforms (P/S) is for Signalmen to use. Some of the plans I have don't show this platform, but photos do.

Thank you, Rick. It appears that the platform location may vary (some DDs, including the USS Kidd have one on each side of the pilot house), but since you kindly posted those USS Van Valkenburgh photos for me, I should be able to accurately place it on my model.

PeeJay

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So many ships to model and so little time . . . .

I've got a simple question for you:

What are the proper names for the 3 main deck structures?

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Мощность для рабочих, которые просто пытаются построить простой судна под строгим тиранов! - В. И. Ленин

Hello from Elk & Steelhead country and Cody the Incorrigible Cat

Do you mean the deckhouses?

They are on a FLETCHER;

The Forward deckhouse that the bridge superstructure sits on.

The Midships deckhouse, that mostly is taken up with the stack uptakes and fresh air intakes.

The Aft deckhouse where 53 and 54 mounts and the small deckhouse for a twin 40-mm mount.

At least that seems to be the terminology I see used. Some earlier destroyers can have multiple deckhouses across the main deck that are not connected (except by a walkway), I have not dug into those ships to know how they labeled them.

Okay, I wasn't sure ... if I was working on my Cutty Sark I know they would be called deckhouses.

I just want to make sure they didn't start calling them something else by WWII. (like "super-massive superior sub-bridge superstructure" or some such silly thing )

When/how does a 'deckhouse' transform into a 'superstructure'?

_________________
Мощность для рабочих, которые просто пытаются построить простой судна под строгим тиранов! - В. И. Ленин

Hello from Elk & Steelhead country and Cody the Incorrigible Cat

Basically the "Superstructure" is anything built-up above the hull. Particularly the Main Deck. So all the deckhouses and everything built-up on them (say stacks, gun "tubs", etc) are part of the superstructure of a ship.

It gets a little confusing on some ships where there is a forecastle deck as part of the hull (think SIMS-BENSON-GLEAVES class destroyers). The deck atop the deckhouse or structure built on top of the forecastle is called the "Superstructure" deck. See drawing attached. I don't have a similar drawing for FLETCHERS.