The Ship Model Forum

The Mk 14 Gun Sight Operator's Manual (found here: http://www.eugeneleeslover.com/AMMUNITI ... 429-1.html ) is dated May, 1943. So is it safe to say that a Fletcher commissioned in December 1943 would have had the Mk 14 gunsight on its 20 MM guns and Mk 51 directors, instead of the open sights?

PeeJay

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So many ships to model and so little time . . . .

Yes it is quite likely by the end of 1943 the production of the Mk 14 Gunsight would have "caught-up" with most destroyers. Lower priority ships ... say a minesweeper or cargo ship ... may not have been equipped with the Mk 14 Gunsight. The Mk 14 Gunsight was an integral part of the Mk 51 director, so HAD to be there or it wasn't a Mk 51..

The Mk 14 Gunsight was available and installed on some ships in late 1942. But, many early FLETCHERS carried a mixed battery of iron and Mk 14 gunsights into early 1943. But, because even before July 1942 the USN was installing the wiring for the sights to the guns, they could be added by tenders in the forward areas with little effort. 20-mm guns that may have been added in the forward areas (the first 18 or so dozen FLETCHERS in the South Pacific saw various numbers of extra 20-mm guns added) where there wasn't any wiring. So, adding the wiring took extra work, which could be done by a tender, but it took longer.

Currently got back into ship modeling, working on a couple of "capital ships", however I did have the pleasue in the mid 60's as a USN Sea Cadet to drill underway aboard the USS Watts, a Fletcher, and USS Whitehurst, a DE which both sunk a sub at Leyte Gulf and took a Kamakaze in the bridge. Great ships, largely unmodified from the WWII configuration except for removal of most of the light AA. Great ships and crews. One friend, a BM1, had been on Hornet from the time she was comissioned to being lost at Santa Cruise! Some history there.

To stand on the fantail of a Fletcher cutting through calm waters at 35 knots, the deck pounding and the wake boiling above your head was an inspiring experience.

Cheers: Tom

I love your story Tom. I was born a little too late and most of the Fletcher's were scrapped by the time I could have joined the USN. I graduated high school back in 1978 and I contemplated joining the USN with a friend, but decided not to, and it's been one of my biggest regrets in life.

Now all I can do is visit the Charlestown Navy Yard in Boston, Ma and walk the decks of the USS Cassin Young DD-793 and imagine what it must have been like the way your story tells it.

Roger DD-473/DD-555

Rick -- thanks for that confirmation. Representing a Mk 14 should be easier than a "crosshairs" sight in the smaller scales.

Tom -- I didn't sail on a Fletcher, but did do 3rd Class Miidshipman summer Training on the USS Beaty (DD 756), an "unmodernized" Somner Class Destroyer, based out of Newport, Rhode Island at the time. Subsequently spent first class summer training on the USS England, DDG-22, and active duty on the USS Canberra (CAG-2/CA-70); the USS Connole (DE=1056) and the USS Barbour County (LST-1195).

Still have a fondness for those Fletchers, though, as well as the "Four Pipers."

PeeJay

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So many ships to model and so little time . . . .

I did spend a day underway on a Gearing once and had the pleasure of stansing next to the Captain on the bridge as he gave the docking orders. At the time almost all crews bunking was the same on any ship, three and four tier pipe racks with a thin matress. Always felt good to hit the fart sack though. At least post war everyone had his own rack, except on subs.

Almost all of the fletchers had been deactivated by 1970 or so. Perhaps some sailed on in South America, afterall USS Phoenix was sunk during the Falkland war.

Biggest reason for their demise? Probably lack of internal volume for the new electronics and weapons. Certainly lots of low mileage ships remained in the reserve fleet for parts.

At one point there was plans to convert the unfinished Hawaii and the other Alaskas to missle ships. They actually might have been more practical for that than the Iowas if the had hung on to them longer.

Tom

BTW HNSA had pdf general plans for a round bridge Fletcher on their site.

T

Over the Holidays, I had a chance to re-study some of the pictures from this site and others under a magnifying glass. Sure enough, I did find skylookout chairs at the bridge level, as shown in the drawings. They are included in Tom's photo etch, so if these old hands can fold them up, I now know where they will be installed.

PeeJay

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So many ships to model and so little time . . . .

All that having been said, I just found this photo of the USS Bradford (DD 545) with a skylookout chair on the port side forward of the pilot house roof. That is where one is also installed on the USS Kidd. The starboard side of the pilot house roof is obscured in the photo, but there most likely is one there, as well. It just shows that you really need a photo of the ship you are modeling to be accurate.

Luckily, I have the photos posted by Rick Davis that indicate that there are no skylookout chairs on the pilot house roof of the USS VanValkenburgh (DD-656). So I will still go with the navigation bridge location on the drawings. That would also be consistent with the skylookout chair location shown in the photo of the USS Heerman (DD-532).

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So many ships to model and so little time . . . .

Looks like I posted the wrong Bradford photo. Here is the one I was referring to.

PeeJay

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So many ships to model and so little time . . . .

Concerning the railings on the flying bridge (?) and wings on both funnels: the pictures of the USS Leutze show them "tarped" with canvas. The pictures aren't much to crow about so I need to know if this canvas runs around the entire length of the railings?

thanks in advance.

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Мощность для рабочих, которые просто пытаются построить простой судна под строгим тиранов! - В. И. Ленин

Hello from Elk & Steelhead country and Cody the Incorrigible Cat

It appears that all the railing is canvas covered around the top of the pilothouse, minus the openings for ladders in the photos of LEUTZE and sisters (DD-592 and 593) completed at PSNY at about the same time.

Thanks Rick, that was what I needed. A view from aft.

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Мощность для рабочих, которые просто пытаются построить простой судна под строгим тиранов! - В. И. Ленин

Hello from Elk & Steelhead country and Cody the Incorrigible Cat

Hi Guys,
I am trying to identify the color of the base coat of paint that is under a measure 31 or 32 top coat. There are many photos of Fletcher class DDs with badly chipped paint on the hull sides. I would like to replicate this chipping on my 1/144 Revell Fletcher, which is being built as DD 465 "Saufley" circa late '44

Thanks in advance for the help,

Mike
SFFD

Most likely it would be Haze Grey (aka 5-H)

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Мощность для рабочих, которые просто пытаются построить простой судна под строгим тиранов! - В. И. Ленин

Hello from Elk & Steelhead country and Cody the Incorrigible Cat

Mike,

"In General" for any camo applied, the base coat is the lightest paint of the scheme (at least the lightest for the hull and the lightest for the superstructure). But, other factors can occur. It appears to me that most, BUT NOT ALL, of the 1944 dazzle schemes were applied in a yard. Many ships completing during 1944 had dazzle applied by the builder or the Home USN Yard. Units that returned to the West Coast (or for that matter Atlantic based units to the East Coast) for a major overhaul/refit, were painted by the yard into the latest scheme authorized. Both cases allowed for proper cleaning and prep of the surfaces (primers applied) and was applied with spray-guns. If a scheme was applied or modified in forward areas, less prep work was used and what is underneath is whatever was there before.

It is quite interesting to see ships, particularly destroyers, once the dazzle schemes were discontinued and were painted to either Ms 21 or Ms 22. Many times the crews painted over the old scheme without proper prep with old-fashion brush-painting by hand applied over a touched up surface and the new paint can be seen as peeling off, particularly on the hull. Some units had the benefit of a forward area (floating) drydocking during this period and would get a pretty good paint job applied. In those cases what is exposed depends on what was underneath it.

Since SAUFLEY (DD-465) finished her overhaul in October 1944 at Beth-SF and photos show her camo scheme (Ms 31/9D) as applied then, I suspect that the base coat is the lightest color ... 5-H Haze Gray.

I hope that helps.

Thank you very much gentlemen for the thoughtful and detailed answers.
I have done major changes to the kit to represent Saufley in her later years.
I will post some photos soon. I would love to hear your feedback.
This is a GREAT website!
Thanks again,

Mike
SFFD

I had a question on the funnel "wings". Especially as regards the USS Leutze.

Revell provides this huge "airplane" wing with a straight front for the rear funnel, but upon inspection of photographs this is not even close.





It needs a beveled front.


So I reduced down some of the blueprint copies I got here:





As one can see the difference is substantial. With large amounts to be removed:



If anybody notices that I've interpreted this wrong, please let me know before I start carving on it tomorrow Thanks

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Мощность для рабочих, которые просто пытаются построить простой судна под строгим тиранов! - В. И. Ленин

Hello from Elk & Steelhead country and Cody the Incorrigible Cat

The platform Revell has in the 1/144 scale kit July 1942 FLETCHER kit to be installed on the second stack was for the Searchlights that were located there on the original configuration of the FLETCHERS. The kit's early Searchlight Platform was before the aft con station was moved to the forward part of this platform inline with the stack. When the waist twin 40-mm mounts were installed, the Searchlight Platform was moved to the forward stack (and was itself a smaller version of the platform on stack 2). But the con station stayed at the front of stack 2. Some FLETCHERS in the transition "tried" to use that same Searchlight Platform for the directors, but it was too large ... blocking full elevation and rotation for the 40-mm mounts. A new smaller design for the Director Platform was produced. There was some variation in the shape of this platform until they came up with one everyone liked. The few units that tried to use the original Searchlight Platform as a Director Platform, did a "fix" that involved "squaring-off" the outside edge of the platform. It certainly looks different. But, LEUTZE had the final Director Platform design.

Thanks again Rick!

Here's what I ended up with:



... close enough for government work.

(had to make a notch on the forward platform for the pipes to run through along the face of the funnel)

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Мощность для рабочих, которые просто пытаются построить простой судна под строгим тиранов! - В. И. Ленин

Hello from Elk & Steelhead country and Cody the Incorrigible Cat