The Ship Model Forum

Thanks for the phone and explination. would hate to have to haul up the chain from the locker to switch line to retrieve. Even at the relitivly small size of the links, That would be heavy work.. I have read that some Fletcher landed and anchor to save weight. Would also save the work of shifting chains too.
Thanks again.
glen

Looking for some advice for my next build.

Want to do the USS Kidd, DD-661. She has a square bridge and I have yet to find the conversion pieces for sale in either 1/144 or 1/350. Anyone point me in the right direction?

_________________
~Blake
Completed:
1:350 Trumpeter CVN-68 Nimitz, "Eagle Claw"

Planned: Nimitz fixes and sprucing up

In 1/350 scale, the Trumpeter THE SULLIVANS kit is a Square Bridge configuration FLETCHER and has the mid-war five twin 40-mm mounts and the Anti-Kamikaze configuration (two quad and three twin 40-mm mounts) options. You can build it waterline or full-hull. The kit needs work to make it more accurate, but is the only Square-Bridge kit available in plastic.

Which time period/configuration of USS KIDD are you thinking of modeling?

The Revell 1/144 scale kit is only comes in a Round-Bridge configuration. There is a Square-Bridge conversion set, but from what I have seen it is a disaster. You would be better off scratch building a Square-Bridge for that kit ... mostly straight pieces, no curves.

Rick,
Many, many thanks for your reply.

I'm thinking that I'd like to model the Kidd in late war configuration, i.e. without the hull camo. Great to know about Trumpeter kit as it will save me a ton of headaches in addition to wanting to model her with a waterline hull and seascape.

Thanks

_________________
~Blake
Completed:
1:350 Trumpeter CVN-68 Nimitz, "Eagle Claw"

Planned: Nimitz fixes and sprucing up

USS KIDD was upgraded to the five twin 40-mm mounts in February 1945 (one of the last two FLETCHERS to be updated) and was in that configuration when she was hit by a Kamikaze on 11 April 1945. She returned stateside and was repaired and modified to the "Anti-Kamikaze Mod". So either of those configurations can be derived from the parts in the Trumpeter kit. Your choice would be the configuration she last "fought" in (five twin 40-mm mounts) or the one she had at the end of the war (two quad and three twin 40-mm mounts), but never saw action in. There are photos on Navsource of both configurations.

In both cases, KIDD was painted in Ms 22.

Are there any clear photos of DD-448 LA VALLETTE that show the layout of her railings while she was in Measure 21? In particular I'm trying to figure out what type of railings she had around the second 5" turret in front of the bridge and along the deckhouses by the quintuple torpedo tube mounts.

Bill,

You need to be more specific on La VALLETTE's configuration you are interested in modeling. She was in Ms 21 in at least two and maybe three of her configurations.

In early 1943 in the South Pacific she was in Ms 21 (after being in Ms 22 and before that Ms 12mod) when she had the two twin 40-mm mounts prior to being damaged and returning to the West Coast.

From July 1943 until some point in early 1944 she was in Ms 21 after she was upgraded to the five twin 40-mm configuration. In 1944 she wore a dazzle scheme.

She retained the dazzle scheme up to when in February 1945 she was mined. But, what camo she had after being upgraded to the Anti-Kamikaze mod in late 1945 I'm unsure of ... I have not seen a photo of her in that configuration except in mothballs.

When you provide the configuration, I will see what images I have to help you out.

A general answer to your question is that in those areas you specifically asked about, there were stanchions with two cables (chains) running through them. The stanchions were intended to be lowered in combat or at least able to be, particularly next to the torpedo tubes.

Rick, thank you for the fast response. I'm interested what she would have looked like in early 1943 with the twin 40mm mounts.

Bill,

Excuse me, but do you want the real early version with TWO twin 40-mm mounts (one on the fantail)?

Apologies for the muddled language - I mean the version with two twin 40mm mounts.

Bill,

I think I posted the full size images that these cropped detail views posted below came from, elsewhere in this thread. I just don't feel like searching through the whole thread to find them.

I hope these images of La VALLETTE's sister, USS FLETCHER, built at the same yard and time answers your question.

Thanks a lot, Rick, those photos show me what I was after. Is there a reason why the railings around the turret (first photo) are so low? They don't look high enough to prevent you from taking a nasty spill.

Bill,

I suspect ... fairly strongly ... that the rail was that short so that when the 52 mount traversed towards the rear quarters, that the back end projections of the mount wouldn't snag the railings. It is clear in this photo, but it maybe that there is a "fold-up" or "plug-in" extension to the stanchions as well for "in port" use. But, in looking at various photos on different early units, that doesn't appear to be the case. The lower run was about knee high.

Well, I think I finally recovered from my 11 month 1/200 U.S.S. Arizona build and am ready to think about another large scale ship. It will for sure be a Fletcher class 1/144, but am not yet set on which ship. I am at best a novice when it comes to WWII destroyers. I was hoping to get a bit of a knowledge boost and some advice.

I will for sure make it a round bridge destroyer, as there are plenty of options here to avoid the work of a square bridge conversion kit on top of several other changes. I am considering building the U.S.S. Fletcher herself, as it will be the closest to out-of-the-box, but I am a sucker for dazzle schemes. I have been thinking of the U.S.S. Leutze (DD-481) as a possibility.

I know she has at least a few changes including 1) the heart shaped 3 x 20 mm mount on the fan tail, 2) 40 mm platforms added abeam the stern stack, 3) 40 mm guns put in the gun tubs fore necessitating new tubs and guns, and 4) extra depth charge racks astern.

I can deal with some of the basic scratch building (new tubs, etc), but before I take this task on, I am wondering:

1. Twin 40 mm Bofors: where do I find these aftermarket to account for the extra guns
2. Single 20 mm guns: where do I find these aftermarket to account for the extra guns
3. Any source for the extra depth charge racks? This might be a bit beyond my scratch building interest
4. Any source for 1/144 Chocks and Bitts? Enough to scratchbuild the Bitts, but an accurate Chock is a bit harder and quite a number of these were moved and will need to be rebuilt.

I understand that WEM makes some resin castings for guns, but as I understand it they lack gun directors (?, didn't think AA guns had these). Building in 1/144 sure will allow for a lot of detail, but it's an odd scale to find aftermarket stuff. Any other dazzle schemes I should really know about that would require less modification?

I like the G Factor guns & directors, WEM not so much. hth

What haven't you liked about the WEM guns? It seems to be the consensus that the G-Factor was preferred for the 40 mm twins because they come with the directors. Neither one is particularly cheap when you think about having to buy 4-5 of them to upgrade to a later Fletcher class.

Bought them, didn't like them! Looked slightly undersized to me. But that was a couple of years ago.hth

I know there has been quite a few discussions regarding the subject model, however, I have a general question that I hope someone can comment on. I understand the basic oob kit leaves something to be desired. I would invest in the L'Arsenal 1/350 USS Sullivans upgrade set if I knew this would correct some of the short comings of the basic kit. If one of you fellow modelers have went this route, is there any other 'major' areas that need re-working to improve the overall appearance? I am NOT a very good scratch builder, however, I can work with PE fairly well. I guess I might be overly cautious, but I don't want to invest $ and time and have the model turn out to be a "Stash Collector."
Any thoughts, comments or directions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Hello all

Now that I have 2 carriers in the making I am developing the idea of two little dioramas. First carrier...CV19 Hanckock at the end of the war, maybe ancouring so some LCMs and maybe the tug can be used. Camo MS12...and a little destroyer to go with her. A fletcher class...? Preferably also in a blue scheme. Which one would be best suited, please? Kit wise I can buy any...I have both 700 Tamiyas in hand and the Trumpi in the mail. So a name, one of the 175 (!) that would suit would be really great so that researching does not get out of hand

Next...short hull early specs Essex carrier, maybe Intrepid or Yorktown...again, which destroyer would be best? Another Fletcher (early) or a different class?

I have been looking around for Fletcher class infos and it's simply overwhelming. It appears like there are 175 different versions or even more! Some fantastic pics on the web though, I especially like the large scale official Navy pics that were taken with Speed Graphic full size cameras.

thanks a lot
Uwe

Uwe,

It depends on how "accurate" you wish the FLETCHER escort to be.

First off the carrier you are modeling ... USS INTREPID ... was damaged by Kamikazes on 16 April 1945 and was out of the rest of the "active" war, only returning to the war zone in August 1945. At the time of INTREPID's being hit by a Kamikaze ON 16 April 1945, she was assigned to TG 58.4 with the following destroyers assigned as escorts for the WHOLE TG;

DesRon 47

DD-530 TRATHEN
DD-532 HEERMANN (Jan 45 photo shows her in Ms 21)
DD-534 McCORD
DD-556 HAILEY (Jan 45 photo shows her in Ms 21)

DesRon 53

DD-540 TWINNING (Aug 45 photo shows her in Ms 21)
DD-687 UHLMANN (May 45 photo shows her in Ms 21)
DD-797 CUSHING

DesRon 54

DD-677 McDERMUT (Jun 45 photo shows her in Ms 21)
DD-688 REMEY (Mar 45 photo shows her in Ms 21)
DD-678 McGOWAN (Mar 45 photo shows her in Ms 22)
DD-679 McNAIR (Apr 45 photo shows her in Ms 22)
DD-680 MELVIN
DD-689 WADLEIGH (Apr 45 photo shows her in Ms 22, but she was NOT in the war zone by 15 April)
DD-691 MERTZ
DD-798 MONSSEN

That was the easy part, which destroyers actually escorted INTREPID and when during the immediate period before her being damaged, would take time I don't have. The escorts were rotated between close in escort and radar picket duties for the whole TG 58.4. Now then since you have both Tamiya 1/700 scale FLETCHER kits and are getting the Trumpeter 1/700 scale FLETCHER kit, I suggest using the Tamiya CUSHING kit, this kit is the Square-Bridge version that ALL of the above FLETCHERs are and in the proper configuration of five twin 40-mm mounts. The Trumpeter THE SULLIVANS kit is also a Square-Bridge unit, but that kit's configuration is of the Anti-Kamikaze mod, not in existence in April 1945.

The Tamiya CUSHING kit "should" be a close fit for either USS CUSHING (DD-797) or USS MONSSEN (DD-798), since they named their kit after CUSHING (and built the kit to represent?) and both units were built at the same Beth-SI yard. There are a couple of minor errors in the configuration (the bulwark for the waist main deck 20-mm guns should be flared into the waist twin 40-mm clipping rooms, not be stand-alone bulwarks ... see attached image from her completion in Feb 1944) of this kit, that you would need to check photos of to understand and correct them if desired.

As for camo used in April 1945 on these units, I don't know. They were first painted in dazzle schemes, but many destroyers were painted out of those schemes into either Ms 21 or Ms 22 by the Okinawa operation. I have noted behind each units above where I have a photo showing their camo scheme in or near April 1945. My "guess" is based on the camo worn by their sister units in the same DesRon, that CUSHING would be in Ms 21 and MONSSEN would be in Ms 22. I can't access Navsource.org right now to see if there are images available for these two in April 1945 that I don't have.

Also, in general, carriers wouldn't be operated with LSMs unless in port some where. The big carriers were used on strike missions all around Okinawa in April 1945, not near to where the LSMs were.