The Ship Model Forum

Of course, an interesting addition to the diorama could be having Intrepid right around the time she got hit. Adds a little action to the scene, conceptually.

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Hello Rick

Thank you very much for the detailed answer. I now realize that my questions were put in wrong...very sorry for this. Must be my German thinking.

Intrepid or Yorktown I want to show in her early days, so 1943 or so, before they got the second catapult on the deck. So an escort would need to be from this time. Donar kit is Dragon's Hornet.

The 1945 szene should be the Hancock (Trumpeter) I have also on the table, this one in MS21 and with a "blue" destroyer to go along. I have spent a good deal of time yesterday to go through various Fletcher threads and to collect pictures. This is a huge subject with basically as many veriations as there were ships. There is a very nice picure of USS Watts as she was in April 45, very dark camo...which would look very good together with an also dark blue late war carrier. I just want to avoid dazzle patterns for now since those are my first ships in almost 20 years...keep it simple for a start.

thanks
Uwe

Uwe,

Summer 1945 *******************************************************

Well, then with USS HANCOCK (CV-19) in 1945, she was damaged by a Kamikaze on 9 April, sent to Pearl Harbor for repairs and returned to the war in July operating with TG 38.1. The destroyers assigned to escort this TG in July-August 1945 were these DesRon units.

DesRon 25

DD-500 RINGGOLD (Rd Bridge)
DD-501 SCHROEDER (Rd Bridge)
DD-573 HARRISON (Rd Bridge)
DD-574 JOHN RODGERS (Rd Bridge)
DD-575 McKEE (Rd Bridge)
DD-576 MURRAY (Rd Bridge)
DD-659 DASHIELL** (Sq Bridge)

DesRon 50 ... it appears that all of these units were in Ms 22 in this period

DD-650 CAPERTON* (Sq Bridge)
DD-651 COGSWELL* (Sq Bridge)
DD-652 INGERSOLL* (Sq Bridge)
DD-653 KNAPP* (Sq Bridge)

DesRon 61 (all were ALLEN M SUMNER class units)


Early 1945 **********************************************************

Prior to HANCOCK's Kamikaze damage in April 1945 she was assigned to TG 58.3, these destroyers were serving as escorts during March-April 1945;

DesRon 48 (All are Sq Bridge, except for WALKER)

DD-517 WALKER (Rd Bridge)
DD-631 ERBEN*
DD-642 HALE*
DD-644 STEMBEL*
DD-660 BULLARD**
DD-661 KIDD**
DD-666 BLACK*
DD-667 CHAUNCEY*

DesRon 62 (all were ALLEN M SUMNER class units)


Early 1944 **********************************************************

As for USS INTREPID (CV-11) or USS YORKTOWN (CV-10) in 1943 or 1944, INTREPID didn't see operational service in the Pacific until January 1944 and YORKTOWN first saw service in the Pacific in August 1943. So looking at early 1944 should fit your criteria. Both were assigned to TF 58, with YORKTOWN assigned to TG 58.1 and INTREPID to TG 58.2

Destroyers assigned to TG 58.1 (USS YORKTOWN) were;

DesRon 50 (All are Sq Bridge) ... it appears that the whole DesRon 50 units were in Ms 21 throughout the early 1944 period.

DD-650 CAPERTON*
DD-651 COGSWELL*
DD-652 INGERSOLL*
DD-653 KNAPP*
DD-668 CLARENCE K BRONSON*
DD-669 COTTEN*
DD-670 DORTCH*
DD-671 GATLING*
DD-672 HEALY*


Destroyers assigned to TG 58.2 (USS INTREPID) were;

DesRon 52 (All are Sq Bridge) ... unclear what camo scheme these units were painted in during the early 1944 period. USS HUNT (DD-674) was in dazzle. But, OWEN, THE SULLIVANS, and STEPHEN POTTER may have stayed in Ms 21 throughout the period since I have an undated image of THE SULLIVANS in MS 21 reportedly taken in late 1944 or early 1945. I don't have images for the others in early 1944 to know for sure.

DD-536 OWEN*
DD-537 THE SULLIVANS*
DD-538 STEPHEN POTTER*
DD-673 HICKOX*
DD-674 HUNT*
DD-675 LEWIS HANCOCK*


As to the best candidates, it is up to you. WATTS didn't escort any of these three carriers in the periods you are looking at.

MOST of these destroyers did NOT have the same waist twin 40-mm "tub" bulwark configuration seen on the Tamiya 1/700 CUSHING kit, but the Tamiya kit does have the standalone waist main deck 20-mm bulwark seen on them. See attached first image for what the typical bulwarks looked like for the units above marked with "*". You would need to modify the waist twin 40-mm bulwark "tubs" to be most accurate ... that is up to you.

However, three of these units ... DD-659 DASHIELL, DD-660 BULLARD, and DD-661 KIDD did have the proper waist twin 40-mm and 20-mm bulwarks. See the second image below that matches the Tamiya kit which are marked with "**". In early 1944 BULLARD and KIDD had not been updated with twin 40-mm mounts in place of the 20-mm guns before the bridge. However, by early 1945 both were upgraded with twin 40-mm mounts before the bridge. DASHIELL was updated by January 1944. So DASHIELL would work for a July-August 1945 escort for HANCOCK. Either BULLARD or KIDD would work for escorts to HANCOCK in early 1945.

Which unit to model for either YORKTOWN or INTREPID in early 1944 is unknown within the units listed above. They all would require some modification to the waist twin 40-mm tubs to accurately represent them.

As for camo, my notes above are my best guesses based on photos.

Also, the Tamiya Round Bridge FLETCHER 1/700 scale kit, is in the earliest configuration, so modeling one of them would require bashing a CUSHING kit to get the configurations for any of the Round Bridge units identified above. Not hard to do, but just requires buying another kit.

Hello Rick

Thanks again for your super detailed answer.
Since I want Hancock to be in a non dazzle, blue scheme and with all added AA guns as well I guess only the "summer45" szenario is left. I have now penciled in DD-659 as her escort having found very nice pictures of the ship on the web. One is of paticular intrest to me... http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix2/0565919.jpg
This is Dashiell in Sept/Oct45 and it look to me like a darkish one color scheme? Or is it simply a bad photo? MS22 normally shows a very clear demaration line between the blue and the gray along the hull. It also shows that Dashiell did not receive the Kamikatze update during war time.

thanks
Uwe

PS: Do you know which of the ships got the "Kamikaze" updates? Dashiell for sure did not have it in Sep.45! I have a Trumpi Sullivans in the mail to serve as a potential spare parts resource and also just received some Pit-Roar weapons sets which help a lot.

Yes I know which 50 or so FLETCHERs received the Anti-Kamikaze mod. I listed them somewhere in this 76 page thread on FLETCHERs. I don't have time to hunt for the list, if you need it I suggest going through all the pages. Most of the Anti-Kamikaze modified units didn't get back to the war zone before the war ended. Some of the first units modified did return to the "war zone" as the war ended in early August and were in Tokyo Bay for the surrender ceremony (I noted them in my list). Many of the units modified to the Anti-Kamikaze (roughly 50%) were units damaged by Kamikazes or mines in early 1945. None of the carriers were allowed in Tokyo Bay for the surrender for security reasons, so a diorama for that event with a carrier is not accurate.

Besides this list, there may be other items of help in your build if you go through the whole thread. Some things change as new information or additional research turns up additional info. I have posted many images along the way.

Yes, I do believe DASHIELL was in Ms 21 for most, if not the entire, war.

Thanks again...

Worked a bit on DASHIELL this afternoon...the config should be right now. I am waiting for the PE doors, etc...the Pit-Roar Weapon's set is very nice and provides all I need for the ship.



thanks
Uwe

A couple of shots of my Revell 1/144 JOHNSTON

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Hello all

Just spotted this on the Revell page..."new" for 2014? Is this someone elses mold?

http://www.revell.de/index.php?id=210&K ... 05127&sp=1

thanks
Uwe

I suspect this is the old ... very old ... tooling kit from Revell of the early FLETCHER. I bought one several years ago just out of curiosity as to how good/bad it was. It is a very dated kit, limited to only a few units built "out-of-the-box".

Hello Rick

You were right! A very old mold...not really worth mentioning...



But then there were two more Revell Fletchers on show...one in a ~ 1944 set up and one in a 60ties German Marine scheme...and both come in 1/72!












Those are real monsters...and concidering the fact that they come as a finished ship the detailing and workmanship is really good. I am sure some extra detailing could be done and for example adding the anti slip pads would bring them even more to life. And a crew of course...

cheers
Uwe

So that answers that mystery. A poster on Steelnavy posted a blurry photo showing these two kits in the distance of an overall view. But, there was no clue as to the scale or even the company (still unsure if these are Revell or Hobbico items). 1/72 FLETCHER would be quite big for "display" (about 5-ft). If this is a "completed-only" model, they have got some errors in where they place some equipment ... the torpedo directors need to be on the aft ends of the Navigation Bridge Wings, not atop the pilothouse. Plus in this scale, the Navigation Bridge and bridge and other areas aboard the ship, is bare of several pieces of equipment that should be there.

Hello Rick

They had them on show at both, the Hobbico and Revell stand...and they are mainly meant to be RC! They come with motors already installed...
I wonder who actually produces them...must be China for sure.
Btw...anothe German RC company "Graupner" had a 1/144 (?) Missourie on show...even bigger than the Fletchers.

cheers
Uwe

Ahhh ... RC model makes sense then. I just didn't see any signs that these were RC vessels, like removable access sections for batteries, etc. Heck none of the photos even show the underwater hull and props.

Hello Rick

Sorry, my mistake. I was so impressed by the size and quality of the ships coming as finsihed products out of the box that I totally forgot to take more pics of the technical side of things...

Staying with Fletchers...I had a conversation with the representative from Dragon/Cyber Hobbby and I have tried to explain him that if Dragon is looking for a real huge seller they should look into doing 1/350 and 1/700 scale Fletcher class ships that have the same quality as their latest Gearing class. He was asking right away if this class would allow variations...!!! I told him about the importance of the class and that Dragon could possibly make 20+ re-boxings of the verious versions from 1942 all the way up to 2000. He took notes...
I am sure Dragon knows about this already, so lets hope we will hear positive news soon.

cheers
Uwe

Hello,
I am looking for a model of a Fletcher Class Destroyer USS McKee DD-575.
My father Jesse E. Blades GM/3c served aboard her the full 3yrs that she was in service, I have found many photos of the McKee, even one with my father standing on the starboard bow at Mare Island Navy Yard Ca. I wish he could have seen it, but he passed in 1987 from emphysema.

The last photo taken of my father at the VFW-662

I want to find a model of the McKee, build it and put it in a display case for my mother. any help I can get, I will be grateful.

Thank you
Scott

Because it's simply impractical for model companies to produce a kit for every single Fletcher class ship ever built, you'll have to find a kit of a Fletcher that's closest to the McKee's configuration and do the appropriate modifications. To that end, you'll have to tell use what time period your father was on the McKee so we (well, not me, but Rick or Dick or one of the others) can find you the closest kit.

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USS McKEE (DD-575) was one of the FLETCHERs that only saw service during WWII. She was from the early "Round-bridge" group of FLETCHERs.

There are several options for modeling a Round-bridge FLETCHER in several scales. Do you have a preference in scales? The most common and easiest to put in a display case would be 1/700 (about 6-in long) and 1/350 scale (about 12-in long). Full hull or waterline? Also, when would you like to model McKEE, since she went through several configurations during the war. The end of WWII period may be a good choice with several options.

Hey guys, got a question - My Tin Can Sailors book on DD661 Kidd has a few different artists renderings of her in different measures. Says first one in '43 was MS 14, overall Ocean Gray 5-o. Another source I found http://www.shipcamouflage.com/fletcher_class.htm has it listed as MS 21 overall Navy Blue 5-n.

Which is it? Looking at the many photos both post fitting out and towards the summer of '43, it *looks* too light to be Navy Blue, but I dunno. Ugh, this is kind of the fun part of ship modelling but aggravating. Why is information so sketch?!

Thanks!
Kyle

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As "delivered" KIDD could well have been painted in Ms 14. I can never tell from B&W photos.

But, as actually deployed to the Pacific, KIDD would have been painted initially in Ms 21. Ms 21 5N faded pretty fast and will appear lighter after being at sea for a relatively short period.

At some point in 1944 (I don't know the date or where it was done) she was painted in a dazzle scheme.

After her late 1944 Overhaul, she was repainted into Ms 22 camo.

Thank you Rick! Navy Blue she is then...

Kyle

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