The Ship Model Forum

Kevin,

I believe that WEM also has a 1/144 scale twin 40-mm mount available.

Somewhere a few pages back in this thread (Page 44, halfway down) I posted images of JOHNSTON and a couple of her sisters built at the same builder to give an idea of their configuration. Also, the question comes up as to JOHNSTON's camo at the time of her loss ... from an overhead photo I saw dated 15 September 1944, but can't post because I didn't scan it at NARA and don't own the original photo, she appears to have been in Ms 21.

Thanks Rick, for some reason I cannot get to WEM website. Do you happen to know if they have the twin 40mm guns and mounts or just the mounts? I need both. I could go with HR but I have heard they take forever, and I'm not sure what they offer but based on price I think it's only the guns not the mounts. The best "deal" I have seen is the G-Factor but again everybody is sold out.

The WEM twin 40-mm mount is on this page ... http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/brochu ... -etch1.htm ... they have images of the resin gun/mount and of the PE that goes with it.

I have trouble finding it because I forget it is under the "Photo-etch" section.

Rick
Have a question for your experten

Herb Allen - LT Gunnery on DD 520 let me copy his personal war diary during our time together in the 90's
DD 520 and the infamous Willie D leave the Aleutians for Pearl in Jan 44.
H.A. diary has DD 520 going into drydock on Jan 25...with the tag,...rumor is we are getting a camouflage job.
Jan 26 - All hands over the side scraping the bottom,.....they have started painting us ....Blue.

Porter is getting a black and white camouflage job.

No exact date here.....Diary has them leaving the Aleutians on Aug 9/44...putting into Frisco for 11 days.
NARA photo 19-N-87871 Isherwood (DD 520), San Francisco, 29 August 1944....is the first I'm familiar of her in her camo measure./along with view-45 degree off centreline photo same date with bay bridge in the background.

Based on Herb Allens ref in the diary of *Blue,....
would DD 520 appear similar to WATTS (DD-567) ?

There is a pic of Infamous Willie D in her camo at Massacre Bay Attu - June 9/44 - NH 97804
There are 2 Fletcher cans in the background...both with dark contrast paint scheme's [520 possibly in the pic]....photo prior to Des Ron 49 going out with heavy's Chester and Pensacola to bombard Paramashiro.

Brad,

If you are asking me a camo question ... I'm not an expert on camo ... and my true answer is I don't know for sure. If I have to "guess", ISHERWOOD didn't get the dazzle camo scheme until the Mare Island Yard Availability. Both the 23-31 January 1944 Pearl Harbor Navy Yard and 15-25 August 1944 Mare Island Navy Yard Availabilities were relatively short ones. I don't know of any images of ISHERWOOD between January and early August 1944 to verify with certainty what she was painted to during that period. But, since there are views of ISHERWOOD in her what looks new "dazzle" (reported as Ms 31/16d on 29 August 1944 at MINY and there is a crew member's diary entry that she was painted "blue" at PHNY, I would have to say "likely" she wasn't painted into dazzle until August 1944. There was some resistance to the dazzle scheme by some ship CO's, so I could see one ship in the same DesRon getting painted to the new scheme and another repainting in the "older" Ms 21. Wm. D. PORTER and ISHERWOOD were in different DesDiv within DesRon 49 (PORTER in DesDiv 97 and ISHERWOOD in DesDiv 98). There is no way of telling which other destroyers are in the background with Wm. D. PORTER in that June 1944 photo (unless a high res scan would reveal the hull numbers ... unlikely). All it shows was there were other FLETCHERS (likely form DesRon 49) still in Ms 21.

Same for me Rick.....No pics of 520 from Jan/44 thru the Aleutians ending Aug/44.
Not many pics of any of Des Ron 49 for this time either.
http://www.shipcamouflage.com/images/ms21_drayton.jpg
USS Drayton .....color photo in MS 21,........Interesting : )

Brad:

That pic of Drayton is NOT in Ms 21. It is a late 1941 pic showing her in experimental camouflage Ms 1B. The full uncropped photo is shown here http://members.boardhost.com/Warship/msg/1321468635.html (I know, it's on SN), and shows the orange-yellow wing of the plane the pic is taken from. Also, if it truly were Ms 21, the masthead would not be painted in 5-L.

Don Andrews
The AndrewsShipyard
http://www.theandrewsshipyard.com

When I bought the Revell 1/144 Fletcher kit I swore I wasn't going to let this one get out of hand. Get the Eduard PE sets, the Nautilus resin 5" turrets and the brass barrels and let it go at that. Now these fiends keep coming up new resin and PE after market for her to separate me from my money (and pi** off the C-in-C) that I'm finding it hard to resist! I think I need to find a 12 Step program for ship modelers. One day at a time, one day at a time......

Bob

_________________
Give me a fast ship, for I would like to get out of harm's way!

That is funny... I'm thinking this venture could run into 5 bills very easy (and my C-n-C isn't fond of that). So what made you go with the Big Ed set over the Nautilus set?

Kevin, primarily that decision was made based on my prior experience with Eduard's PE sets. I've never had any experience with Nautilus's' PE, so I suppose my thinking was "better the devil you know than the devil you don't". Yeah, its amazing how these things can take on a life of their own. I keep swearing that I'm going to do more OOB builds, just doing things like railings and the odd details from Tom's but I keep ending up buying enough after market to double or triple the price of the kit. Fortunately, the C-in-C doesn't check out the paypal account too often! If she did, I'd be on the couch for sure.

Bob

_________________
Give me a fast ship, for I would like to get out of harm's way!

Thankyou Don.....

I was able to find some models with MS 21 after reading your post,
http://steelnavy.com/images/2006March/BH3Ars.jpg
Something closer to the model and not the *Blue Beetle : )

I've got both PE sets. The Eduard set has a lot more options to it. Also the PE seems to be thicker, which to me makes it easier to work with. I don't really care to work with PE much and prefer to scratch build my own parts if it is possible. I'm also not a fan of Nautilus' resin but hear their laser deck work is good. JMHO

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Any ship larger than a Destroyer is a waste of metal.

Fletcher Guru's

I have a Question, I have seen the USS. Taylor and O'Bannon of Desron 21 with both Blast bags and without I have looked at Navsource and seen both, as well as they were wearing MS21 all blue correct before the Solomons battles in 43's would I be correct to build my kit with out blast bags?? Also is the paint scheme all 20B. thanks in Advance.

Thunder

_________________
In Port: Building
1/350 USS. Conway DD-507
1/350 USS. Jenkins DD-447. 50%
In the Yard: Planned
1/350 USS. Claxton DD-571
1/350 USS. Watts DD-567

Ms 21 is 5N on all sides and Deck Blue on top surfaces. Whatelse they may have used in the forward areas ... I don't know.

Blast bags were a problem throughout the war. They couldn't keep them on ... they wore out or got destroyed from gun fire. Sometimes replacements were not available nor time to make their own aboard the ship (with whatever canvas was available ... leaving it natural or painted) and fit them. Normally they tried to keep bags on the forward mounts that got the most wet.. 53 mount went without bags many times. Several styles of bags were tried and none were very effective.

Rick

Once again thanks for your great Knowledge.

Eugene

_________________
In Port: Building
1/350 USS. Conway DD-507
1/350 USS. Jenkins DD-447. 50%
In the Yard: Planned
1/350 USS. Claxton DD-571
1/350 USS. Watts DD-567

Happy Holidays all.

Got another fletcher question. I picked up a 1/350 tamiya fletcher for 5 bucks. and see it is a round bridge early. I am curious as to the armament config for the De Haven and Strong in 1943 in Kula. Ive looked at DH and navsrc but cant really see. also what equipment is on the bridge wings??

I think Strong ---- and De Haven
had this
51 ----- 51
52 ----- 52
single 20mm P/S ---- twin 40mm P/S
53 ---- 53
TT ---- TT
single 20mm P/S ----- 2x single 20mm P/S
TT ---- TT
54 ---- 54
twin 40mm up top ---- twin 40 up top
55 ---- 55
twin 40mm ---- 3x single 20mm

_________________
In Port: Building
1/350 USS. Conway DD-507
1/350 USS. Jenkins DD-447. 50%
In the Yard: Planned
1/350 USS. Claxton DD-571
1/350 USS. Watts DD-567

$5 for a Tamiya FLETCHER is a great price!!! I thought my getting them for $12-15 at swap meets was a great price.

Actually, both STRONG (DD-467), lost on 5 July 1943, and De HAVEN (DD-469), lost 1 Feb 1943, were both still in the two twin 40-mm configuration with a fantail twin 40-mm installation. The 20-mm armament varied between the two however.

For reference, here is a good link with the general layout of these two as commissioned ...
... http://destroyerhistory.org/fletchercla ... &pid=46704 ...

De HAVEN arrived in the South Pacific in early December 1942 (@ Noumea), she and SAUFLEY (DD-465) were the 4th and 5th FLETCHERS to arrive in the War Zone. De HAVEN departed the East Coast (in October) with the then "standard" 20-mm armament of four 20-mm guns; two before the bridge on 01 deck and two amidships - one per side on the main deck. The authorized number of 20-mm guns kept going up for FLETCHERS in late 1942 and additions were made locally to several FLETCHERS. The few available photos of De HAVEN shows an interesting and maybe unique arrangement. She had TWO 20-mm guns added atop the pilothouse instead of the normal single 20-mm added on the centerline atop the pilothouse. These two 20-mm guns were mounted at "about" the location where the two Mk 51 directors were added later on FLETCHERS getting the forward twin 40-mm mounts. At the time of her loss it appears that she had only six 20-mm guns.

STRONG left for the Pacific in late December 1942, arriving at Noumea on 27 January 1943 during a month when nine FLETCHERS arrived in the South Pacific War Zone. She was one of several FLETCHERS that took part in the North Africa invasion by escorting convoys and returned to the East Coast for some updates prior to heading to the Pacific. During her duty to North Africa, she had the same four 20-mm configuration that De HAVEN had. Between updates on the East Coast and guns added locally in the South Pacific, STRONG had the max "authorized" eight 20-mm guns for FLETCHERS with the two twin 40-mm (one on fantail) configuration by the time of her loss. Her eight 20-mm guns were located; two before the bridge at 01 deck level, one on an elevated platform on the centerline before the bridge, one atop the pilothouse on the centerline, and two per side amidships on the main deck.

For either case, you will need to scratch build the lower twin 40-mm "tub" installed between 53 and 54 mounts. The kit comes with the fantail twin 40-mm installation. I will have to double check the data I have, but the 20-mm installation on STRONG I believe fitted the "standard" locations. The admidships main deck 20-mm guns were relocated from the earlier location seen on FLETCHER ... the had removed the aft 20-mm guns to go to the total of four 20-mm guns (like on De HAVEN) and when they then added them BACK, they were installed before the existing single 20-mm guns.

Somewhere among the 40+ pages in this thread I have posted images of the drawings/images for the elevated centerline platform and the 20-mm guns and bulwark layouts for the different configurations that would apply for these two ships. Scratch building those shouldn't be too difficult.

Rick

thanks alot again, I will build either strong or maybe taylor. Im on the hunt for parts now, I saw alot say corsair armada 5/38 turrets are best but i cant findany. also I have to find the torpedo box and lights for the bridge.

Eugene

_________________
In Port: Building
1/350 USS. Conway DD-507
1/350 USS. Jenkins DD-447. 50%
In the Yard: Planned
1/350 USS. Claxton DD-571
1/350 USS. Watts DD-567

Eugene,

STRONG and TAYLOR were pretty close to being in the same configuration with the eight 20-mm guns being in the same locations.

Here is the drawing of the evolution of the waist main deck 20-mm gun locations on early FLETCHERS. On STRONG and TAYLOR, likely they just added the 20-mm gun forward of the "B" single 20-mm location instead of moving the existing mount forward as shown in "C".



Here is the elevated centerline platform and the centerline 40-mm mount "tub" between 53 and 54 mounts drawings.

Rick, looking at the photo of the JOHNSTON it appears to me that the searchlights were moved to the forward stack with the Mk51's on the rear stack. It also appears to me that both platforms had splinter sheilds surrounding them and not rails, does that look correct to you as well?

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On the Table - 1/350 USS Arizona

In the Stack - 1/700 Titanic