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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:01 am 
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Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Hi! It is a wonder we did not have this thread already having several great Italian destroyers models on the forum and many experts in Regia Marina :cool_2:

I have a question which is more for a small research of my own but hope sometimes this will lead me and may be others to building a model.

What is the color of WWII Navigatori class destroyer Antonio Pifagetta on this photo? Photo is taken obviously before WWII, may be in 30s. I was told on other forums that Regia Marina never had white livery for their ships between WWI and WWII and that the color on this photo is actually light blue seeming white due to contrast.

But it still seems white to me comparing the color of sailors shirts and pants and water coming out of the ship :smallsmile: (only imagine how even more beautiful this ship would be in white). Is there any documentary or other reliable information on the color of Navigatori class destroyers before WWII and that it was never white?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:06 am 
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actually i think that it's a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight gray.

In fact, the "grigio cenerino chiaro" (light ash gray) is sometimes reported as a very light gray.
I never heard of a white livery, except for some riverine gunboat in the far east station, but i don't know if the Pigafetta ever sailed to that operational area..

so my guess is an extra light (and freshly painted) grigio cenerino chiaro (lifecolor produce one)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:03 am 
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Thank you for that, Sir! :thumbs_up_1: Would be interesting if we get same (or other) opinions from other members?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:52 pm 
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Location: Saint-Andiol, France
Nothing to add to what Stefano said: the ship was surely painted in overall Grigio cenerino chiaro, which was a very light grey, looking almost white in some photos.

To get a general reference about RM destroyers from the beginning 'till the end:
- 1880 - 1900: the very first destroyers were painted in a very dark olive green, similar to the Olive drab used on US vehicles :heh:
- WWI: most destroyers were painted in overall dark grey with white ID letters; some were painted in light grey with black or red ID letters.
- This state of anarchy lasted until Fascism got a firmer grip on the Regia Marina; from circa 1926 onward all new constructions were painted in overall light grey; from 1930 it was virtually impossible to see a RM ship in dark grey, as the new regulation, stating that all military ships had to be painted in Grigio cenerino chiaro, was adopted. ID letters were brick red.
- WWII: at the end of 1940 no destroyer had yet received a camouflage scheme; at the end of 1941, it was hard to find one still in the prewar measure. All this without true regulation as each scheme was specifically designed for an individual ship. Most of the schemes however relied on three colours: grigio cenerino chiaro, dark grey and white, the only notable exceptions being Niccolò Zeno which got a Claudus scheme with ochre and black and Legionario which had green added to the standard greys. White spots were deleted in late 1942 as they provided aiming spots for British submarines at night. ID letters were sometimes painted over; if mantained, they were still brick red.
All surviving destroyers serving with the allied RM after the armistice had the hull painted in dark grey and the superstructures in light grey.
- Post WWII: the prewar measure was restored, but the NATO ID numbers substituted the ID letters.

About the decks: until the end of WWII the steel decks of RM ships were left unpainted: the crew holystoned them with lead sheets, which protected them from corrosion. So there's no true "deck grey" for RM ships, altough it seems logical that hard-pressed crews painted their decks with the standard issue dark grey instead of empoisoning themselves with the lead sheets. One thing is sure, there was no dedicated deck paint for RM ships.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:56 pm 
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Thank you, Secondo for such profound information. I stored it on my computer for the time I move to the the moment of starting a Navigatori model.

Sent on PM on that issue.

I asked permission from the author of Russian book on Navigatori destoyers to post an electronic copy of Antonio de Noli model photo in Venice Naval Museum in Grigio cenerino chiaro - that is actually almost white. If I get it I will post it here (or some of you close to Venice and its Naval Museum may do it sooner then me :smallsmile: )

Thank you again,

Yevgeniy


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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 3:30 pm 
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I didn't realize that there was a 1/700 kit on the Navigatori class destroyers. Here's one example on Ebay:

Ebay listing: 1/700 Navigatori class destroyer

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:18 pm 
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Hello gents, I'm building the EVA 1/350 resin Ugolino Vivaldi, a beautiful Navigatori class in 1940 fit ,but I have an issue , I can not find if in that period, she had double or triple torpedo launchers,the kit has both options(well ,sort off :big_grin: ) sadly not many available information and almost all the internet photos are very low resolution. If some one has some useful info I will be grateful.

Thanks in advance
:wave_1:

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:49 am 
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in the book of maurizio brescia on the class (albertelli editore) the vivaldi never carry the triple tt, until '39 has two double tt witouth protection shield, from '40 until '41 two double tt with protection shield and after one double tt with protection shield
but in the book esploratori italiani - franco baroni edited by ufficio storico della marina it is a drawing of vivaldi in 1940 wihout shields and with mines
ciao peppe


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:13 pm 
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peppe wrote:
in the book of maurizio brescia on the class (albertelli editore) the vivaldi never carry the triple tt, until '39 has two double tt witouth protection shield, from '40 until '41 two double tt with protection shield and after one double tt with protection shield
but in the book esploratori italiani - franco baroni edited by ufficio storico della marina it is a drawing of vivaldi in 1940 wihout shields and with mines
ciao peppe


Thank You Peppe, and now You confirmed my thoughts, was confused because I saw a photo of the Malocello,showing triple TT and was earlier the WW II ,I have a couple of pics of the vivaldi of the 40 ,but wasn't sure of the TT,now looking closer ,You are right ,they are double.

then the kit parts are ok ,can use the double TT with protection shield
grazie mille peppe

ciao


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