The Ship Model Forum

A question I appreciate you having asked, since I am venturing into two post-war JMSDF builds: Pit Road's new release of the Wakaba, a Tachibana-class IJN destroyer sunk in 1945, raised in 1954 and refit as a training vessel. Mid-term in its second life, it was fitted with an ungainly SPS-12 radar over its pilot house and the resulting look deserves a place on my shelf. Also ordered the Murasame, the first post-war JMSDF destroyer design, with a nice mix of Japanese lines and US weaponry.

Will look for some color matches in the Tamiya line.

What JMSDF are you currently building?

I'm currently doing the 1:350 JMSDF Atago and bought the Modeling guide (Japanese magazine). Bunch of great details and pictures of the actual ship in color.
Now, i want to paint the hull using Tamiya spray can (don't have airbrush), what would be the closest color for a JMSDF ship?
Looking at some pictures, the Atago deck is almost as gray as the hull.


Thanks,
Kin Matsamura
CVN-76

Taken from Wikipedia;

The Matsu-class destroyers (松型駆逐艦 Matsu-gata kuchikukan) were a class of destroyer built for the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN), who referred to them as Type-D Destroyer (丁型駆逐艦 Tei-gata kuchikukan).

Design basis

The Matsu class were built late in World War II, and they were intended to be more cost-effective in response to the changing character of naval warfare at that time. These ships were lighter and smaller than previous Japanese destroyers, with different armament such as enhanced anti-aircraft guns and anti-submarine weapons, and radar. Since surface warfare was believed to be less likely at this stage of the war, armament such as torpedo tubes that would be useful against surface ships was reduced.

As in other navies during the war, the IJN substantially simplified the design to speed up construction, and used Ōtori class machinery, because high speed was unnecessary for convoy escort operations. However, mass production was not achieved.

The Matsu class design was subsequently further simplified, resulting in the Tachibana class destroyer (橘型駆逐艦 Tachibakna-gata kuchikukan?) or Modified Type-D Destroyer (改丁型駆逐艦 Kai Tei-gata kuchikukan?). The Tachibana class destroyers adopted the first modular design in a Japanese destroyer. Matsu class destroyers whose construction was started late in the programme were completed as Tachibana class.

The IJN converted twelve destroyers to Kaiten mother ships to prepare for the Japanese mainland decisive battle.

Differences between Matsu and Tachibana Classes

Armament
General characteristics Matsu class
Displacement: 1,260 tons standard
1,530 tons in battle condition
Length: 100.0 m (328 ft 1 in) overall,
92.15 m (302 ft 4 in) waterline
Beam: 9.35 m (30 ft 8 in)
Draft: 3.30 m (10 ft 10 in)
Propulsion: 2 × Kampon water tube boilers,
2 × Kampon impulse geared[1] turbines, 19,000 shp (14 MW)
2 shafts
Speed: 27.8 knots (32.0 mph; 51.5 km/h)
Range: 3,500 nmi (6,500 km) at 18 kn (21 mph; 33 km/h)
Complement: 211
Sensors and
processing systems: 1 × Type 93 active sonar,
1 × Type 93 hydrophone
Electronic warfare
& decoys: 1 × 22-Gō surface search radar (wavelength 10 cm)
Armament:

(Matsu, April 1944)
3 × 127 mm (5.0 in) L/40 Type 89 AA guns (1×2, 1×1)[2]
24 × 25 mm (1") Type 96 AA guns (4×3, 12×1)[2]
4 × 610 mm (24 in) Type 92 torpedo tubes (1×4)
4 × [2] Type 93 torpedoes
4 depth charge throwers[2]
36 × Type 2 depth charges[3]
(Take, March 1945)
3 × 127 mm (5.0 in) L/40 Type 89 AA guns (1×2, 1×1)
39 × 25 mm (1") Type 96 AA guns (4×3, 27×1)
4 × 610 mm (24 in) Type 92 torpedo tubes (1×4)
4 × Type 93 torpedoes
4 depth charge throwers
48 × Type 2 depth charges

Ships in Class
Taken from - The Pacific War Online Encyclopedia

#5489 IJN Momi (Matsu Class)



An amazing 1/700 Matsu Diorama build here.
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=104542

Build description of same here (In Polish)
http://pwm.org.pl/viewtopic.php?f=172&t=8697

Please feel free to add more model links and lists of different scale kits.

Career Naval Ensign of Japan.svg
Name: Tachibana
Launched: 14 October 1914
Completed: 20 January 1945
Struck: 15 September 1945
Fate: Sunk by US aircraft, 14 July 1945
General characteristics
Class & type: Tachibana-class destroyer
Displacement: 1,289 metric tons (1,269 long tons)
Length: 100.0 m (328 ft 1 in) overall
Beam: 9.35 m (30 ft 8 in)
Draft: 3.41 m (11 ft 2 in)
Installed power: 19,000 shp (14,000 kW)
Propulsion: 2 shafts, 2 × Kampon geared steam turbines
2 × Kampon water-tube boilers
Speed: 27 knots (50 km/h; 31 mph)
Range: 4,680 nmi (8,670 km; 5,390 mi) at 16 knots (30 km/h; 18 mph)
Sensors and
processing systems: 1 × Type 3 active sonar,
1 × Type 4 hydrophone
Electronic warfare
& decoys: 1 × 22-Gō surface search radar (wavelength 10 cm),
1 × 13-Gō early warning radar (wavelength 2 m)
Armament: 1 × 2, 1 × 1 - 127 mm (5.0 in) L/40 Type 89 dual purpose guns
4 × 3, 13 × 1 - 25 mm (1 in) AA guns
4 × 610 mm (24 in) Type 92 torpedo tubes
4 × Type 93 torpedoes
60 × Type 2 depth charges

Ships in Tachibana Class

Enoki
Hagi
Hatsuume
Hatsuzakura
Kaba
Kaki
Kusunoki
Nashi
Nire
Odake
Shii
Sumire
Tachibana
Tsuta

The Tachibanas were a further simplification of the Matsu class, eliminating most of the remaining curved plates and using almost entirely mild steel for construction. This did not bode well for survivability, but it little mattered since the ships were completed too late for much war service. Initial projections were for 113 units,but only 33 were actually ordered and ten of these were canceled.

The most well known of the Tachibana's and only one to "emerge" after the war in a fashion was IJN Nashi.

Information gathered from World of Warships official forum

Nashi was the 10th Tachibana class destroyer, a further simplification of the Matsu class destroyers. She had a brief and not particularly interesting service in the IJN but she's noteworthy for being the only ship that served in both the Imperial Navy and the post-war Self Defence Forces. Upon completion (Tachibana class ships were modularly built) at Kobe by Kawasaki Heavy Industries she was commissioned and assigned to Desron 11, Combined Fleet, for training on 15 March 1945 and later in May 1945 she was re-assigned to Desdiv 52, Escort Squadron 31, Combined Fleet. On 22 June she escaped undamaged an attack by B-29s on Kure harbour. In July 1945 she was refitted as a Kaiten carrier and completed joint training with Kaiten crews in Inland Sea, but on the 28th of the same month she was sunk near Kure by TF 38 aircrafts; most of the crew, including her captain Lieutenant Commander Takada Toshi, survived the sinking, in total there were 17 killed, 21 injured.
Ship history
Builder: Kawasaki Heavy Industries, Kobe
Operators: Imperial Japanese Navy
Plan: Modified 5th Naval Armaments Supplement Programme
Laid down: 1 September 1944
Launched: 17 January 1945
Completed: 15 March 1945
Commissioned: 15 March 1945
Fate: sunk, 28 July 19
Struck: 15 September 1945
General characteristics
Ship type: 1st class destroyer
Ship class: Tachibana class (modified Type-D) destroyer (project F55B)
Displacement: 1,350 t standard load, 1,580 t during trials
Total length: 100,0 m
Beam: 9.35m
Draft: 3.40m
Propulsion: 2 × Kampon Type 3 mod C turbines, 19,000 PS (14,000 kW); 2 × Kampon Type 3 mod B2 boiler
Maximum speed: 27.8 knots
Fuel: 370 t
Range 3,500 nautical miles at 18 nodes
Complement: 211
Armament: 1 × 2, 1 × 1 - 127 mm L/40 Type 89 dual purpose guns; 4 × 3, 12 × 1 - 25 mm AA guns; 4 × 610 mm Type 92 torpedo tubes; 4 × Type 93 torpedoes; 36 × Type 2 depth charges, 1 × manned torpedo Kaiten Type 1

IJN Nashi being refloated on 21 September 1954


She spent 9 years on the bottom of the sea, until the foundation of the Japan Maritime Self-Defence Force led to the decision of refloating her on 21 September 1954, during the following two years she was repaired at Kure and she was recomissioned as JDS Wakaba on 31 May 1956. She was refitted with (American supplied) radar equipments in 1958 and served as radar trial ship, sonar equipment was added in 1960. Wakaba was finally struck for the last time from the navy list on 31 March 1971 and scrapped during the following two years.
Ship history
Builder: Kawasaki Heavy Industries, Kobe; Kure Naval Arsenal (repair works)
Operators: Japanese Maritime Self Defence Force
Launched: 1954 September 21 (refloatation)
Completed: 10 September 1955 (beginning of restoration)
Commissioned: 31 May 1956
Struck: 31 March 1971
Fate: Scrapped, 1972–73
General characteristics
Ship type: destroyer escort
Ship class: Wakaba class destroyer escort
Displacement: 1,250 t standard load, 1,560 t full load
Total length: 100,0 m
Beam: 9.35m
Draft: 3.28m
Propulsion: 2 × Kampon Type 3 mod C turbines, 15,000 PS (11,000 kW); 2 × Kampon Type 3 mod B2 boiler
Maximum speed: 25.5 knots
Fuel: 395 t
Range: 4,680 nautical miles at 16 knots
Complement: 175
Armament: 2 × Type 68/Mk.33 3"(76.2 mm)/50 caliber guns; 1 × Type 54/Mk.10 Hedgehog anti-submarine mortar; 4 × Type 54/Mk.6 K-Guns; 2 × Type 54 Depth charge rack; 1 × Type 65 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tube twin mounting (5 torpedoes)
C Quadruple I system: Mk.63 GFCS
Radar: AN/SPS-12 L Band AS; Mk34 Fire Control; US SO; AN/SPS-5B C Band SS; AN/SPS-8B S Band Heightfinder (added 1960)
Sonar: (All added in 1960) AN/SQS-11A; AN/SQR-4/SQA-4

Thank you, Tony, for starting this thread. The Matsu/Tachibanas are not as well known as the other IJN DD classes, probably due to their late appearance in the war. But, they gave a good accounting of themselves.

I'm going to list some of the builds in the galleries. I'm sure I've missed some. Also, I'll add two more postwar pics of Wakaba (ex-Nashi).

Aside from some resin 1/350 and some large scale scale paper versions, most kits are of 1/700 scale. Fujimi issued the first kit, a horrible mix of Matsu and Tachibana features. Really, one of the worst Fujimi issues from the original waterline consortium. In the early 1990s, Tamiya issued a Matsu class kit that was sharply molded, though a little devoid of detail. Still, it makes for a nice kit. PitRoad followed with a nicely detailed Tachibana class kit.

1/700

A nice Tamiya version of Matsu-class Sakura by Allan McBeath: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Another really nice Tamiya version of Sakura by Nanond Nopparat: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

A very nice correction of the poor (Matsu-Tachibana hybrid) Fujimi kit into Matsu by Natapon Buniswwong: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

A beautiful rendition of the PitRoad Tachibana class kit of Hatsuzakura by David Bilek: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Another Tamiya based Sakura (with full hull) by Ralph Kuo: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Yet another Tamiya based version of Matsu by Maciek Gruza: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

1/200

A paper card version of Matsu by Joe Krenzer: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Two postwar shots of some Matsu types. The Maki shot has been colorized. The unidentified Matsu retains her full armament, I believe.

Thanks Dan for adding those.
I had not seen those shots you added either. Very interesting to see.

Do you know of any information showing photos, dimensions or even drawings of the equipment (Weapons / Radar) fitted to post war Wakaba. I did find a few photos of the SPS 12 Radar and Hedgehogs but nothing else.
What was the dome under Wakaba ? Excuse my ignorance on this as not a Naval man.

Regards
Tony

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about Wakaba's fit but, I have some references that I can check.

Many Thanks Dan. Not of any urgency.
She was refitted with (American supplied) radar equipments in 1958 and served as radar trial ship, sonar equipment was added in 1960.

Armament: 2 × Type 68/Mk.33 3"(76.2 mm)/50 caliber guns; 1 × Type 54/Mk.10 Hedgehog anti-submarine mortar; 4 × Type 54/Mk.6 K-Guns; 2 × Type 54 Depth charge rack; 1 × Type 65 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tube twin mounting (5 torpedoes)

C Quadruple I system: Mk.63 GFCS

Radar: AN/SPS-12 L Band AS; Mk34 Fire Control; US SO; AN/SPS-5B C Band SS; AN/SPS-8B S Band Heightfinder (added 1960)

Sonar: (All added in 1960) AN/SQS-11A; AN/SQR-4/SQA-4

Kind Regards
Tony

Well, I wouldn't say I had a lot of success. Photo below from Gakken #43, but don't ask me to translate it.

For those interested in this class, I would suggest obtaining Gakken #43, which is a single volume dedicated to the class and the best, most comprehensive volume you'll find on the class. Great 1/300 build of Keyaki (Matsu) and a 1/200 build of Hatsuzukura (Tachibana). Plus a lot of clear, large format photos. It helps to have had many of this class survive the war.

Incidentally, it turns out that the unidentified Matsu type above is Keyaki.

Thanks Dan.

Wow look at those Radars ! What have I gotten myself into !
I will track that issue down ASAP.

Cheers
Tony

Stumbled across a reference to another Book on these classes but in Russian. Unfortunately very hard to find on line for purchase.

"’Samurais’ of the Japanese Navy: ‘Matsu’ and ‘Tachibana’ Class Destroyers” by E. Pinak.


Has some awesome photos in it that I have never seen before like this one of a Tachibana next to a Matsu clearly showing the different styling at the bow.


Lovely shot on the cover as well of a Tachibana on a slipway.
Some inside shots that were on Ebay






Going to have to try and get this one I think.

The SP-5 radar fit really puts the Wakaba's history and evolution over the top. Pit-Road has released two versions of the Wakaba under the JMSDF historical ships banner, one version with PE, the other without. The PE, which includes the radar fit, is also available separately from Pit Road.

The Ships of the World issue that covered "50 Years of JMSDF History" dedicated several pages to the Wakaba at various points of her career. I'll look up the issue number when home.

HLJ lists Gakken 43 as "Discontinued," so second-hand market is where you'll have to scare it up.

Thanks D Boy

5-Star has a comprehensive PE set specific to the Tamiya kit:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Five-Star-710006-1-700-IJN-Destroyer-Matsu-For-Tamiya-31428/281350722851?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D22695%26meid%3D7504642154213114494%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D9176%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D271473477432

Hoping someone may be able to help me with this question.
It is very hard to get details of a particular ship yet alone year with all the changes but I am hoping someone may be able tell me what the 3 boxes may be in the picture. They are shown in the Profile Morskie drawings as well but are just depicted as 3 boxes on a slightly elevated stand - no other detail. If they do have handles, a door or other I would like to be able to show that if possible especially when I am building in 1/72 scale.
Any pictures, scans, hand drawn notes would be greatly appreciated if available of these.
Thanks in advance

Tony