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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:16 pm 
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Okay thanks. Ships are so busy (vs. airplanes) I can convince myself I can or can't see anything I do or don't want to see :)

J


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:17 pm 
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If I bought the Frank Knox, built the DDR variant, is there anything I would have to do to convert it to the DDR version of the USS Laffey...1945 Okinawa campaign? Yes, I am a newbie to this forum and ship modeling. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:59 pm 
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A couple of problems with "converting to a DDR version of LAFFEY" ...

1). LAFFEY is a SUMNER class unit (shorter hull than a GEARING).

2). All the DDR conversions were GEARING class units, LAFFEY never was a DDR.

The only way to "convert" a GEARING kit to a SUMNER kit is to do some cutting and careful reassemble. Not an easy task.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:49 pm 
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rw00025 wrote:
If I bought the Frank Knox, built the DDR variant, is there anything I would have to do to convert it to the DDR version of the USS Laffey...1945 Okinawa campaign? Yes, I am a newbie to this forum and ship modeling. Thanks.

As Rick stated, Laffey was never designated as a DDR. However, during the Okinawa campaign, a large number of straight DD's (including the Laffey) were used as radar pickets. The need for these is what caused a number of the newly-commissioned Gearings to be converted to "official" DDR's prior to leaving the states for the war zone. Very few of the actual DDR's made it to the war zone before the surrender, so until the time they were expected in numbers, most of the ships on picket duty were straight DD's and DE's, supported by a few assorted smaller craft. All but the first few of the DDR's were delayed in departing the states due to having their last sets of torpedo tubes removed to make room for additional AA guns. (Just some of the lessons learned from the non-DDR pickets that bore the brunt of the attacks off Okinawa.)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:25 pm 
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Rick E Davis wrote:
Walt,
DDR-742 (arrived in the Philippines on 16 June 1945) and 743 (departed East Coast on 24 April 1945) went to the Pacific with the aft TT mount (they got the third quad 40-mm mount in 1946), all other DDR's (DDR-805 left GITMO on 18 June 1945 for the Pacific and DDR-806 left the East Coast for the Pacific on 24 May 1945 ... I think HIGBEE was updated to the Anti-Kamikaze Mod at Norfolk prior to leaving) went to the Pacific with the Anti-Kamikaze Mod replacing the TT mount with a quad 40-mm mount. Camo appears to have been Ms 21 for DDR-742 and 743 when they went to the Pacific. Most others (if not all others) were in Ms 22 (DD-805 was in Ms 22).


Hello Rick

Found this older post on my search through this forum...was actually on the "Fletcher Class" track when I found out about the "new" Dragon Frank Knox...and what I saw made my order one ;-)
Now, the instructions of 742 show her also in a tow tone scheme...but the picture above shows her already in DDR mode and a single color scheme. Is this scheme (MS22) the one she wore when she got to Japan just before the end of the war and eventually into Tokio Bay?

thanks
Uwe


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:44 pm 
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Actually, from the one "in the war zone" image I have of FRANK KNOX (DDR-742), she is painted in Ms 21. In 1946 after a refit, she was painted in "peacetime" Haze Grey. I have not found any photos of her in Ms 22. Some of the DDRs were painted in Ms 22, I just don't have a list breaking it down as to which ones had Ms 21 and which Ms 22.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:49 pm 
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...sorry, type error...I meant MS21! A single color scheme...where as the box cover of the Dragon kit shows a two color scheme (MS22). Am I right assuming she was in the MS21 45 version...so gray tones and not blue tones? #7 Navy Gray and Deck Gray (20)? I think I red somewhere that the blue pigmented paints were reserved for the big units, battle ships, carriers in those days? I may be wrong though...

thanks
Uwe


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:46 am 
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Hello again

Just spoted the advertisement of this vendor:

http://www.tehnoart.eu/gearing-class-.html

The ships look fantastic and the comments on the kits are very good on this board. Of the 3 ships one appears in MS22, one in MS21(?)...but what about the one in the middle, the really dark blue one. It shows two tones of really blue paint...so it's not MS11. What scheme would that be? Is it authentic? The ship number belongs to USS GEORGE K. MACKENZIE DD 836...which was commisioned in July 45...so probably to late to see action in WWII and to wear something like MS11 or ?

thanks
Uwe


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:30 am 
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I can't tell from these images. Color photos can be deceptive based on lighting, without or without flash, and camera used (I experimented with my digital camera at a model show with and without flash ... I got completely different tones for the same model) and which paint manufacturer and/or versions are used.

So I'm unsure what schemes are being represented here. Looks like, front to back, maybe a post-war haze grey, Ms 21 (1945 revised paints), and Ms 22 (unsure which paints are used?) to me. About half of the GEARINGS were not commissioned until after the war was over.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:49 am 
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Rick E Davis wrote:
Actually, from the one "in the war zone" image I have of FRANK KNOX (DDR-742), she is painted in Ms 21. In 1946 after a refit, she was painted in "peacetime" Haze Grey. I have not found any photos of her in Ms 22. Some of the DDRs were painted in Ms 22, I just don't have a list breaking it down as to which ones had Ms 21 and which Ms 22.


Hello Rick

There are a couple more...but from the same event.
Image
Image
Image
Image

I know Frank Knox and her sister Southerland were in Tokio Bay in Sep.45. What really puzzles me is the fact that almost no color photos of this great armada seem to exist, apart from the obvious Missouri ones. At all other events in WWII especially on the US side guys with Kodacrome film were around and have blessed us with fantastic pictures...but not in Tokio Bay? Hard to believe...Do you know where those are if they exist?

thanks
Uwe


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:15 pm 
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You guys might find it interesting that the Taiwanese have 2 Gearing-class DDs underway right now.

For reference, here are a few public pictures:

Image

Image

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:02 pm 
Great picture but it's scary to think about going to sea on one of those. Our FRAMs were failing thin hull inspections back in the mid-70's, I'd hate to think what they could be like 40 years later!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:43 am 
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or at least recently b me. In an earlier post the author referred to Skwaves and Albatross kit. As the post was from around 2010. Is Albatross a newer kit mfg? Or are they defunct now? I was at a local Hobby shop with an Albatross kit on the shelf, in new wrapping. I have not heard of them before. ( this question is posted in general topic forum. But as it is a Gearing kit. I'll ask here too.. Maybe get a more detailed answer. What ever the repl the kit did not stay on the shelf any longer then it took to read the lables on the box!
Thanks in Advance
Glen


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:15 am 
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I recall the Albatross Sumner/Gearing kits coming on the market in the late '80s or early '90s - at the very least, that's when I bought mine. They were basic kits, but looked to get the fundamentals right. I'm not aware of any other kits Albatross did, and I'm not sure what became of the company itself, but I'd love to know. Somewhere upstairs there's one I started converting to a 1969-era Carpenter in 1992 or so, but never finished because of a lack of references!

ON EDIT: "I'll take 'Questions Since Answered' for $200, Alex!" viewtopic.php?f=2&t=155689

Jodie Peeler


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:01 pm 
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Hello again

I am slowly making progress on my "Frank Knox"...I had a lot of trouble finding the right colors for "my" MS21. I know of the fact that original colors are way to dark for small scale models...and hence using WEM 5N and 20B are out of question (for me). I have looked at a lot of pictures from WWII and especially like the Kodacolor slides of those days even though I realize that they mostly show a "idealized" view of things. Anyway, my Frank Knox will be sailing on a sunny day in the Pacific...destination Tokio Bay...and I think I found the right combo to create the right effect. Looking at pictures of Missouri at that time and with finally some sun shine outside I am pretty sure I will use 5S as a slightly faded and scale lightend 5N and Norfolk 250N as deck blue (all WEM). Under the Bavarian sun this one looks just as blue as the decks of Missouri...I am a bit unsure about the hull red still. I have Norfolk 65A and also Lifecolor UA606 and UA231. The NF65A looks a bit pink (salmon) to me...or is it just my screwed up vision? Which hull red would be the best?

cheers
Uwe


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:38 am 
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Hi all

Today I was coming across the first real issues with the Frank Knox! I was starting putting the anti slip decals on and found out that Dragon most likely used the Gearing pattern which does not reflect the altered deck configuration of Frank Knox...so some of the decals do not fit since for example ammo boxes are in the way! Also the decals are much to big...I seperated them into smaler sections which makes putting them on so much easier. The decal quality is very nice, super thin and almost no film around them. Care is to be taken with Mico Sol though, the decals are very sensitive and are getting soft and rubbery in seconds.
On another matter...in the instructions there is mentioning of two PE parts, MA62 and MA22, two pipes running up the funnels. Those I can not find on the PE sprue. MA22 is there...but it's a ladder! Anybody had this issue as well?

thanks
Uwe


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:14 am 
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By Floating Drydock plan e-book on these classes, I am converting Dragon's 1/350 USS Frank Knox kit to a 1944 Sumner. With their sharper camouflage patterns and longer experiences in combat, Sumners are more fun to model. I hope to model one destroyer and one minelayer.

The kitted hull for a Gearing is 99.5% of 1/350 length, which is excellent accuracy for a hobby kit but for a conversion keep that 1mm variance in mind. Converting to a Sumner hull requires excising 11mm (instead of 12mm) from the hull, main deck, two sides (A10, A12) of the superstructure, and the 01-level deck. I cut the hull and the main deck with a Dremel tool and cut the other parts with a Chopper II razor cutter. To strengthen the model, the cuts are in different places along the length. Next: join the parts and conceal the seams.

The models will require the direction finder antenna and its bracket on the second stack. I plan to make those and minor parts with MicroMark's photo-etch lab.

Some of the drawings in the e-book have incorrect captions between port and starboard.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:31 pm 
I will, again, attempt to respond on this forum.

I served two combat tours aboard the USS Hugh Purvis, DD709, and lived aboard her from the Summer of 1968 to the Fall of 1972.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:14 pm 
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I did a search here but came up with nothing. The early Sumner class boats commissioned in late 1943 and 1944, had a four-winged, oval (in the vertical) antenna, that sat on a perforated support mount on the forward side of the aft stack, right above the searchlight mount. What type of antenna is this and what was it's function. I notice that when the Sumners came in for yard maintenance and updates, they were replaced fairly quickly in late '44 and early '45.

When did the Sumners start receiving the twin 20mm guns? I am correct with thinking they started out with the single gun 20mm mounts, and then were updated to the twin mounts, right?

I am converting the Dragon Gearing to DD 731 USS Maddox, and am starting to notice lots of differences between the two classes other than the stretch, and ongoing changes to the Sumners during their use, just like all the other classes of destroyers. Unfortunately(for me, anyway), most of the forum discourse is on the 50's, 60's, and 70's era units. Thank goodness for Navsource.

By the way, the cuts to the superstructure and deck, were not too difficult. I simply followed the examples/instructions given on this forum, being careful about my measurments and making the cuts in the recommended places. The hull was a little more difficult as I chose to make the cut right behind the bilge strakes. There was a little difference when the aft and the forward part of the hull were rejoined, but with file work and filling, I was able to do so successfully. It is definitely necessary to place reinforcing pieces on the inside of this particular joint, as the hull will have pressure on it while working the two pieces down to proper appearance. Ask me how I know. It is a fun build, though.


Last edited by MartinJQuinn on Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Merged into Sumner/Gearing class fans thread


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:20 pm 
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What you see is a double loop antenna for a DAK-2 and DAK-3 Radio Direction Finding set. These were primarily a navigation aid and to detect and determine the direction for specific LF and MF frequencies ... 0.25 to 1.5 mc. If the system was working well, a ship could establish a angle to a known radio broadcast station. The earlier destroyers used a single loop antenna that was rotated to find the strongest signal angle.

They started to disappear when multi-frequency "Electronic Warfare Suites" (in WWII they were called RCM for Radar Countermeasures) started to be installed making this system redundant.

Most SUMNERS didn't get upgraded to twin 20-mm guns until after WWII. Destroyers were getting upgraded as they returned stateside for Overhauls or Battle Damage Repair. Normally overhauls during WWII were scheduled about once a year (but sometimes there was a longer period). Most of the SUMNERS were simply too young for an overhaul, but many were overhauled in 1946. Even those commissioned in early 1944, had their bridges modified into the summer of 1944 and didn't qualify for an overhaul ... the older destroyers and FLETCHERS were first in line.


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