The Ship Model Forum

Dear All,
Here's one for all those with a taste for RN destroyers and escorts. So who is building any of these ships?

Did we ever get a complete list of kits available?

Anyone had a look at the Tamiya E class?

What needs to be done to the new Niko USS Gendreau to turn it into a Captain class?

Will anyone ever make a V/W class kit in 1:700?

I'm sure there are more questions than answers so let's get the ball rolling!

Mike

Not working now on any RN DD or escort since I've finished HMS Onslow from Tamiya. However, I have HMS Buttercup (Flower class) from WEM started and might think in starting HMS Campbeltown from B-Resina. Looking forward to get an E class DD from Tamiya but not very keen to buy another Hood just to get the destroyer. I wonder if Tamiya will create a box just for Electra? They would sell them more since we can do so many destroyer classes from that hull.

_________________
"Build few and build fast,
Each one better than the last"
John Fisher

It would be nice to think Tamiya will do the E class kit in a separate box but there seems no sign of it at the moment, a strange piece of marketing really. Surely if somebody wants a Hood, they will buy it anyway so the destroyer is a bonus. But how many will pay the extra for a kit of Hood they may not want? It doesn't make sense to me to go to the expense of creating a new kit and then limit the possibility to sell it, we shall see.

I have the Samek Eskimo, WEM Kelly (which won't be built as Kelly) plus a number of the Tamiya O class to build. Hoping to pick up a Starling and few others to swell the numbers at Telford.

Mike

Filipe,

Deal for you......I want a new Hood, but not an E class. How about we buy one at Telford and split the cost and the kit? I scrapped my previous Hood, so need a new one.

Cheers,

Rob

Posted too fast there...

I also bought the Hood/E Class combination and found the moulding quality of the Hood not to be quite as good as the Hood sold separately. And it was missing both the bandstands for the aft 0.5" Vickers. The new version Hood has vinyl keepers for the main gun turrets too.

Rob

Thinks for the reminder about B-Resina. Once I have disciplined myself to get the plastic ones finished I will start looking at resin.

The annoying thing about the Hood/E Class is that the box is taped shut so that you can't check whether everything's in there.

Rob,
You have yourself a deal!!! .We see that when at Telford then.
Cheers.

Filipe

_________________
"Build few and build fast,
Each one better than the last"
John Fisher

RNfanDan contact the National Maritime Musuem as they should have the original builders plans for the RN destroyers you intend to scratchbuild.

Use their website and contact the ship plans and photographs dept.
My contact there is one Andrew Chong a most helpful individual, who usually in days gets me plans in the post after I payed for photocopies.

I read a few weeks ago how the stabilizers were not very successful in the batch 1 Hunts of would be highly surprised if in their admiralty collection didnt have one of the class and also for your E-class.

Where did you get the plans if I may ask? I am looking for some good plans for E-class also. Any hint folks?

_________________
"Build few and build fast,
Each one better than the last"
John Fisher

She had a hedgehog fitted as would be expected, but it blew up on the 20th of Sept 1943

She had a double Squid but it came much later in the war in 1944.

Checking my notes a double Squid she did have we have the same photo m8!

The photo has to be Feb 1945 and I assume after all her major changes were done while she was at Portsmouth for refit and trials from April 1944 to Oct 1944. She also unusually had a 277 Radar!

After all these nice comments about my dry-fit incomplete scratch-built model? Yes, I can supply PE Squids!

E-mail me: your address; whether 1 or 2 mortars; whether you need plastic rods for the barrels; and the name and scale of the ship model where you will mount them. Any scale is OK but they are intended for 1/600 and 1/700.

No charge for anything. I'd like to see a photograph (e-mail is OK, or the URL of a web page) of your model with them. I will not disclose your address and will not use it for any other purpose.

Allow a few weeks for my next PE run.

A further thought: Can you paint small-scale (1/600, 1/700) boats or helicopters well; or are you like me? If you would be willing to do that and e-mail a photo of a sample, for that service I would send steel thin-wall tubes for the mortar barrels. I'd supply the boats and helicopters.

I am confused. What ship?

HMS Escapade...late war version. She haves two squids in place of A turret!

_________________
"Build few and build fast,
Each one better than the last"
John Fisher

As there are alot of questions concerning this class floating about with the Tamiya kit being released on its own, I thought it best to start a repository here for the class
instead of answering questions several times a week!

First thing I'll post is a few photos:-

HMS Echo

Echo is seen here below on 30-08-1942 and shows only the initial wartime modifications. The after bank of torpedo tubes have been replaced with a 3inch H.A AA gun,
the aft funnel cut down considerably to improve fire arcs and the addition of oerlikons also.

HMS Echo partly overpainted

HMS Echo July 1938, likely at Portsmouth

HMS Echo prewar port quarter view

HMS Echo June 1953 at the Coronation Review

HMS Echo & Eclipse in Northern Waters, note Oerlikons on bridge wings

Right then thats a start, I'll add more photos for each ship of the class later. I will also put up some Tabular Records of Movement for the different E-class also.
Cheers

EDIT: All image links now deleted.

Useful pictures - thank you. The sixth photo ("HMS Echo June 1953 at the Coronation Review") shows ex-HMS ECHO as the Greek ship NAVARINON - she was transferred in 1944.

This is great Laurence. This info will come in handy when building the different ships of this class.




Bob Pink.

Information & Tabular Record of Movement (TROM) For HMS Echo H23

Background Information

HMS Echo was an "E" Class Fleet Destroyer ordered on 1st November 1932 from Tom Denny at Dumbarton under the 1931 Build Programme.
The ship was laid down on 20th March 1932 and launched on 16th February January 1934 as the ninth Royal Naval ship to carry the name introduced for a Prize taken in 1756.
It was last used for a Sloop sold c.1828. Her Building was completed on 22nd October 1934 for a cost of £247,009, excluding items supplied by the Admiralty such as guns and communications equipment.
Much of her service was in the Mediterranean until 1937 because of the Abyssinian crisis. In January she rejoined the Home Fleet with the 5th Destroyer Flotilla but a fire on board in 1938 kept her in dock for some months.
After a further period of refit she was deployed again in the Mediterranean for a few months before serving in Home waters. Following a successful WARSHIP WEEK National Savings campaign in March 1942 this ship was adopted by the civil community of Llanelli, Carmarthenshire.

Her Battle Honours

QUEBEC 1759
MARTINIQUE 1762
HAVANA 1762
CAPE OF GOOD HOPE 1795
ATLANTIC 1939
NORWAY 1940
BISMARCK Action 1941
ARCTIC 1941-43
MALTA CONVOYS 1942
SICILY 1943
SALERNO 1943
AEGEAN 1943

Her Heraldic Data

Ships Badge:
On a Field Party per pale Green and Blue.
Two horns counterchanged Gold and Silver.

Ships Motto:

Marte et Arts :' By Mars and by Art.'

War Service

1939

August - Under boiler repair at Sheerness.

September - On completion of post refit trials transferred to 12th Destroyer Flotilla for anti-submarine patrol and convoy defence in Channel and SW Approaches.
17th - Took part in rescue operations after sinking ofHM Aircraft Carrier COURAGEOUS by U29 in position 50. ION 14.45W SW ofIrish coast.

October - Channel and SW Approaches deployment in continuation.
13th - Grounded whilst entering Plymouth In fog.
14th - Taken in hand for repair by HM Dockyard Devonport.

November - Still under repair.
13th - On completion rejoined Flotilla in continuation of duty.

December - Channel and SW Approaches patrol and convoy defence in continuation.

1940

January - Re-deployed with Flotilla at Scapa Flow for Home Fleet escort and patrol.

February 5th - Detached with HM Destroyer ECLIPSE for escort of H M Auxiliary Minelayer PRINCESS VICTORIA during lay of Dummy mines along East Coast Barrier off Scottish coast.
20th - Taken in hand for refit at Leith.
Resumed Flotilla duties in Home Fleet on completion.

March - Under refit.

April - Under refit.
30th On completion rejoined Home Fleet.

May - Deployed in support of military operations in Norway for convoy defence and escort of major Fleet units.
18th - Took part in rescue of troops and ship's company from HM Cruiser EFFINGHAM which had run aground off Norway.(Note: This cruiser later became a total wreck in position 16.l7N 13.55E.)
29th - Assisted in evacuation of Bodo with HM Destroyers ARROW, FIREDRAKE, HAVELOCK and VANOC.

June - Transferred to 3rd Destroyer Flotilla, Home Fleet
Deployed for escort of final evacuation convoys from Norway.
Home Fleet deployment with Flotilla in continuation.
13th - Detached to assist in rescue operations after H M Armed Merchant Cruiser SCOTSTOUN torpedoed by U25 in position OO.09N 09-57W.

July 2nd - Detached to assist in rescue operations after mv ARANDORA Star had been torpedoed in position 56.20N 10.40W.
9th - Escorted ss ULSTER PRINCE carrying troops to Iceland.
19th - Resumed Home Fleet duties with Flotilla after escorting ULSTER PRINCE back to UK.

August - Home Fleet duties with Flotilla in continuation.
5th - Detached and joined HM Cruiser CALCUTTA, HM destroyers INGLEFIELD, BERKELEY and GARTH for escort of ships of 1 st Minelaying Squadron for minelay in SW Approaches. (Operation SN32)
21st - Detached with HM Destroyer ECLIPSE for escort of ships of 1st Minelaying Sqquadron for minelay in Northern Barrage (Operation SN2).
28th - Detached for duty in support of French expedition to Dakar (Operation MENACE).
Escorted HM Battleship BARHAM with HM Destroyers ECLIPSE, ESCAPADE and INGLEFIELD for passage to Gibraltar.

September 2nd - Arrived at Gibraltar with HMS BARHAM.
6th - Sailed to join Force M during its passage from UK to Freetown for Operation MENACE.
13th - Met with and joined Force M.
20th - Deployed with HMS BAHRAM to cover HM Cruisers CORNWALL and DEHLI during operation to intercept Vichy French warships off Amcan coast.
22nd - Sailed from Freetown as screen for Force M ships.
23rd - Laid off Dakar during negotiations.
24th - Deployed as screen for HMS BARHAM during bombardment.
25th - Operation MENACE abandoned because of risk of damage from shore-fire.
Escorted damaged HMS BARHAM towed by HM Battleship RESOLUTION to Freetown.
29th - On release from Operation MENACE retained at Freetown for local convoy defence.

October - Convoy defence off West Amca in continuation.
Recalled to rejoin Flotilla in Home Fleet and took passage to UK as part of escort for Freetown-UK convoy.
26th - Detached from escort to assist in rescue tWork after ss EMPRESS OF AUSTRALIA had been set on fire by air attacks NW of Donegal Bay.
27th - Landed survivors at Greenock.
30th - Under repair to boilers at Greenock.
31st - Rejoined Flotilla in Home Fleet.

November - Deployed with Flotilla for Fleet duties in NW Approaches.
to December

1941

January - Home Fleet duty with Flotilla in continuation.
5th - Resumed Home Fleet duties in Flotilla on completion of second minelay.
23rd - Part of screen for Home Fleet major units providing cover for the passage in North Sea of Norwegian ships which had broken out of Baltic from Sweden. (Operation RUBBLE).

February 6th - Joined screen of Home Fleet destroyers escorting HM Battleship RODNEY to cover a minelay in Northern Barrage by ships of 1st Minelaying Squadron.
(Operation SN7 A).

March - Part of screen for Horns Fleet major units covering raid by Commando units on the Lofoten Islands
16th - Resumed Hone Fleet Flotilla duties.
19th - Rescued survivors from Norwegian ss LEO in NW Approaches.

April - Home Fleet duties with Flotilla in continuation.
13th - Detached with HM Destroyer LEGION to assist in rescue of survivors from H M Armed Merchant Cruiser RAJPUT ANA which had been sunk by U 1 08 in position 64.50N 27 .25W.

May - Home Fleet duties with Flotilla in continuation.
21st - Deployed as escort for cruisers on passage to Northern Patrol in Denmark Strait.
25th - After sinking of HM Battle cruiser HOOD joined Fleet units off Iceland for escort of damaged battleship HMS PRINCE OF WALES to Iceland.

June - Home Fleet duties in continuation with Flotilla.

July 23rd - Deployed with destroyer screen for HM Aircraft Carriers FURIOUS and VICTORIOUS, HM Cruisers DEVONSHIRE and SUFFOLK as Force P.
30th - Screen deployment during air attacks on Petsamo and Kirkenes.
31st - Screen deployment during air attacks on Tromso.

August - Home Fleet duties in continuation.
9th - Joined escort for military convoy WS8C in Clyde for passage to Scapa Flow.
(Note: This convoy comprised eight Landing Ships (Infantry), two Landing Snips (Tank), six Motor Transport Ships, four Troopships and two tankers. These ships were to take part in an operation to occupy the Azores (Operation GRAY)
10th - Arrived at Scapa Flow with WS8C
15th - Sailed from Scapa Flow with escort for WSSC when operation was cancelled.
17th - Resumed escort duties on arrival in Clyde with WSSC
Nominated for refit
Passage to Thames.
Taken in hand for refit at Harland and Wolff shipyard, North Woolwich.

September to October - Under refit.

November - Post refit trials.
4th - On completion of trials rejoined Flotilla in Home Fleet.

December - Home Fleet screening duties in continuation.
8th - Escorted Russian Convoy PQ6 as screen for HM Cruiser EDINBURGH with HM Destroyer ESCAPADE during passage to Kola Inlet.
20th - Detached on arrival to escort Russian ss DEKABRlST to Murmansk.
Came under air attack from 2 Ju88's and during avoiding action at high speed two men were swept overboard from the foc'sle. Enemy driven off by Russian Hurricanes and the arrival of HMS EDINBURGH in area.

1942

January 4th - Sailed nom Kola Inlet with same ships to join return Convoy OP 4 as Ocean Escort.
5th - Joined convoy.
8th - Detached when convoy dispersed.
9th - Deployed en patrol south of convoy route with HMS EDINBURGH and HMS ESCAPADE.
10th - Rejoined Flotilla en arrival at Scapa Flow.

February - Deployed with screen for Hone Fleet ships in search for German warships TIRPITZ, PRINZ EUGEN and ADMIRAL SCHEER reported at sea off Norway.

March - Part of destroyer screen for H M Battleships KING GEORGE V and DUKE OF YORK, H M Battlecruiser RENOWN, HM Aircraft Carrier VICTRORlOUS and Home Fleet cruisers to cover passage of Russian Convoys PQ12 and PQ13 as well as returning QP8 and QP9.

April - Deployed with Hone Fleet in continuation.
Nominated for detached duty as escort for aircraft carriers during Malta aircraft deliveries.
13th - Joined HM Battlecruiser RENOWN. HM Cruisers CAIRO and CHARYBDIS as destroyer screen for passage to Gibraltar with HM Destroyers INGLEFIELD, ITHURIEL, PARTRlDGE and US destroyers USS LANG and USS MADISON.
19th - Joined Force W with same ships and destroyers of 13th Destroyer Flotilla for the delivery of Spitfire aircraft to Malta (Operation CALENDAR).
20th - Aircraft were launched despite known problems with long range fuel tanks and defective radio equipment (The aircraft arrived safely in Malta, but were all destroyed on the ground by air attacks.)
21st - Passage to Scapa Flow to rejoin Home Fleet.

May - Detached for further aircraft delivery operation.
Joined HMS RENOWN and USS WASP as destroyer screen for passage to Gibraltar with HM Destroyers INTREPID, GEORGETOWN and SALISBURY, US Destroyers USS LANG and USS STERRET.
8th - Joined Force W (HMS RENOWN, HMS CHARYBDIS, USS WASP, HM Aircraft Carrier EAGLE, as screen with same ships and destroyers of 13th Flotilla for delivery to Malta of Spitfire aircraft (Operation BOWERY). (This led to the safe arrival of the 61 aircraft of the 64 launched and their immediate availability for the defence of Malta turned the tide of the air war over the island.)
11th - Passage to Scapa Flow as escort for USS WASP with same ships of Home Fleet.
15th - Deployed in NW Approaches for anti-submarine defence of UK-Iceland convoys.

June - Home Fleet duties in continuation.
Nominated for refit.
18th - Taken in hand for refit in Humber shipyard.

July - Under refit.

August - Under refit.
22nd - On completion of post refit trials took passage to join 8th Destroyer, Home Fleet.at Scapa Flow for escort duty in NW Approaches.

September - Deployed for support of Russian Convoy PQ18 and return Convoy QPI4.
8th - Escorted HM Cruisers CUMBERLAND and SHEFFIELD with H M Destroyers AMAZON, ECLIPSE, BULLDOG and VENOMOUS to establish fuelling base at Lowe Sound, Spitzbergen and to take stores to Norwegian meteorological station at Barentsberg.
Returned to Scapa Flow after completion of refuelling of escort destroyers.
Resumed Flotilla duties in NW Approaches.

October - Home Fleet Flotilla duties in continuation.

November - Home Fleet Flotilla duties in continuation.
20th - Joined escort for returning Convoy OP15 during passage from Kola Inlet.
22nd - Detached from QP15 and resumed duties in NW Approaches.

December 18th - Joined Russian Convoy JW51A with HM Destroyers BOADICEA, ECLIPSE, FAULKNOR, FURY and INGLEFIELD as Ocean Escort. (German warships failed to intercept this convoy).
25th - Detached on arrival at Kola Inlet.
30th - Joined return Convoy RA51 as Ocean Escort with same ships, except HMS BOADICEA

1943

January 6th - Detached with same ships from RA51 after uninterrupted passage due to the German operation against JW51B during which battlecruiser SCHARNHORST was sunk.
23rd - Deployed with screen for HM Battleship ANSON and H M Cruiser SHEFFIELD providing Distant Cover for passage of Russian Convoy JW52 with 6 RN destroyers and Polish destroyer ORP ORKAN.

February - Taken in hand for refit in Humber shipyard.

March to May - Under refit
Flotilla nominated for duty in Mediterranean in support of future operations.

June - Joined Flotilla in Home Fleet on completion of post refit trials.
17th - Passage to Gibraltar with 8th Destroyer Flotilla.

July - Nominated for escort of major Fleet units during allied landings in Sicily.(Operation HUSKY)
Passage to Alexandria with Call at Gibraltar.
7th - At Alexandria
10th - Part of screen for Covering Force during assault landings.
11th - Deployed with HM Destroyer ILEX as screen for HM Cruisers AURORA and PENELOPE for interception patrol.
13th - Sank Italian submarine NEREIDE in Straits of Messsina with HM Destroyer ILEX.

August - Deployed in. support of operations in Sicily with Fleet units.

September - Deployment with Mediterranean Fleet in continuation.
8th - Deployed with Flotilla as screen for HM Battleships NELSON, RODNEY, WARSPITE and VALIANT, HM Aircraft Carriers ILLUSTRIOUS and FORMIDABLE in Covering Force during allied landings at Salerno (Operation AVALANCHE).
9th - Under air attack by German torpedo bombers which were unsuccessful.
10th - Part of screen for HM Battleships WARSPITE and VALIANT with HM Destroyers FAULKNOR, FURY, INTREPID, RAIDER, Greek destroyer VASILISA OLGA and French LE TERRIBLE which met Italian Fleet on passage off Malta to surrender.
12th - Nominated for support of military operations to occupy islands in Aegean which were garrisoned by Italian troops.
14th - Deployed with five other destroyers as screen for HM Battleships KING GEORGE V and HOWE during passage to Alexandria as escort for surrendered Italian battleships VTTTORIO VENETO and ITALIA, and four cruisers and other warships for demilitarisation.
16th - Arrived in Alexandria with Italian warships
Re-deployed for support of operations in Eastern Mediterranean to occupy islands in Aegean.
17th - During interception patrol with HM Destroyer INTREPID sank Stroarine Chaser UJ2104 off Stampalia
19th - With HM Destroyer INTREPID embarked troops of Durham Light Infantry and four Bofor guns at Haifa for passage to Leros.

October - Detached from Aegean operations.
1st - Escorted HM Battleships KING GEORGE V and HOWE from Alexandria to Malta.
5th - Resumed support of Aegean operations.
25th - Deployed with HM Destroyer ROCKWOOD and Polish destroyer KJRAKDWIAK for offensive patrol.
Under air attack SE of Casteloriso.
29th - Carried out further offensive patrol.

November - Aegean deployments in continuation.
3rd - Deployed with HM Destroyers FAULKNOR, PENN and PATHFINDER to take troops of 1st Battalion Kings Own Royal Rifles from Alexandria to Leros.
12th - Embarked troops for passage to Leros.
13th - Rescued 109 survivors from HM Destroyer DULVERON sunk by air attack off Kos.
14th - Bombarded German positions on Mount Appetica, Leros in support of British troops. Evacuated troops from Samos and took them to Leros.
15th - Engaged and sank F-Lighters attempting to reinforce Cos.
After surrender of Leros resumed Fleet duties in Eastern Mediterranean.

December - Transferred to Central Mediterranean, based at Malta for support of the military operations in Italy.
Nominated for refit.
12th - Deployed in Gulf of Gaeta.
22nd - Taken in hand for refit in Malta.


1944

January to March - Under refit
Arrangements made for transfer to Royal Hellenic Navy.

April 5th - Paid off from Royal Naval service as HMS ECHO
Transferred to Greece and renamed HMHS NAVARINON

War Service as H.M.H.S NAVARINON

May to October - On completion of post refit trials and work-up deployed for support of military in Adriatic and central Mediterranean, convoy escort and patrol.
Based in Malta.

November - Transferred to Piraeus after assisting in re-occupation of Greek islands in the Aegean and support of allied landings in Greece

December - Support duty in continuation.

1945

January to May - Deployed in Greek coastal waters for support against Communist insurgents.


Post War Notes

This ship was retained in the Royal Hellenic Navy after the end of hostilities in Europe and in 1953 represented Greece at Spithead during the Coronation Review.
Before return to the Royal Navy in 1956 she was used for training duties. On 8th March 1956 she was handed back to the Royal Navy in Malta and was placed on the Disposal List.
Sold to BISCO for demolition by Clayton and Davie she arrived in tow at the breakers' yard in Dunston on Tyne during April 1956 and breaking-up had been completed by April 1957.

Laurence, thanks so much for posting all this. I have to admit I just LOVE WWII Royal Navy destroyers... When you look at how many of them were sunk, smashed around or pitched against vastly superior enemy forces: Italian Battleships... DKM Heavy surface combatants... etc etc, you kind of get an appreciation for the duty they performed so resiliently.

You know (I think you know - I sent you the comp') I'm working on a royal navy destroyer right now on canvas... Seeing these posts just gave me some more impetus to actually finish it soon

_________________
IG: @somewhere_east_of_suez
www.JosephReindler.com

I always post on subjects close to my heart.
Next ship to cover alpabetically is Eclipse.

HMS Eclipse

HMS Eclipse wartime entering Scapa Flow

HMS Eclipse shortely after commissioning in 1935.

HMS Eclipse at Devonport

HMS Eclipse probably in and around Portsmouth prewar

HMS Eclipse showing Spanish Civil War markings

A scene only too familar to my Great Grandad, iced up guns and upperworks!
This time in HMS Eclipse

TROM for Eclipse to follow

EDIT: All image links now deleted.

RN destroyers of the interwar period were absolute classics! They probably were not world-beaters in any one aspect, but their incredible balance and versatility enabled them to take on perhaps a wider range of duties than those of nearly any other navy.

Destroyers of other powers in some cases, took on highly specialized caharacteristics--the Le Terribles for example--but lacked the all-round capabilities of the A-I types. The sheer number of different configurations and equipments carried by these vessels throughout the war, make them especially attractive modeling subjects.

Among my favorites in the "E" class, was Express. Besides sporting an incredible war record, serving from the tropics to the Arctic, she was one of only two of her class (the other being Esk) to be fitted as a minelayer. One could model this ship, just as many other A-I destroyers, in a number of configurations and paint schemes.

It was from Express that one of the most famous photographs in WW2 history was taken, while alongside the sinking Prince of Wales in the South China Sea.

No question about it, these are among my very favorite ships! I could fill an entire display case with A-I class destroyer models--each different from the rest--and still not have room for the fair number left to be built!

These new Tamiya E-class releases should prove to be second only to the venerable Airfix Hotspur kit, in terms of "convertability" to other classes.

Just my har-penny's worth--now back to my cave, I retire...