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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:41 pm 
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The Repeat BENSON-GLEAVES class units were being delivered and fitted out throughout 1942 into early 1943, in parallel with the FLETCHER class from May 1942, and had the same issues with floater net baskets. I have noticed the metal Floater Net baskets on various destroyers as early as November 1942 during Operation Torch ... but only on a couple of units. And at least USS HOBSON in September 1942 still had the earlier wood slat floater net baskets. LANSDOWNE had the wood slat baskets attached to the quad 1.1-in and single 20-mm bulwarks on the aft deckhouse in June 1942 and were still there in March 1943. As did LARDNER and QUICK in July 1942. After July 1942, the baskets disappeared on new "operationally ready" units for awhile until the metal baskets appeared a few month later.

On the BENSON-GLEAVES, there were no searchlight or Fire Control Director platforms on the stacks to hang floater net baskets, so you will find the baskets "generally" along the 01 deck level, if installed. Finding Float Net Bundles isn't easy, they could be behind the midships bulwarks.

The floater net baskets were one of the easiest items to install on ships. I have found photos where the arrangement of them on a destroyer after completing fitting-out, was altered apparently by the crew or during a short refit. All you needed to relocate them was a torch and welder.

As I keep saying, look at the photos.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:47 pm 
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Hello all, it's me again trying to sort out some sense for my USS Laffey DD-459 build. I have only a couple of plastic parts and a few railings left before final weathering, crewing, and rigging. I'm trying to sort out the hoists/boat mounting. I'm referring the two large boats mounted over the fore/aft deck level junction.

The kit instructions have the hoists directed inboard moving the craft away from the edges. Clear pictures are hard to find, but this arrangement is supported by this picture of the Benson (I know, not quite the same ship):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 421_01.jpg

However, pictures of the Laffey and others in the class also support the hoists directed outboard hoisting the ship over the deck edge:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Laffey_(DD-459)#/media/File:USS_Laffey_(DD-459).jpg

http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/0545905.jpg

So, I was wondering if anyone could help me sort out the different configurations? Was it set one way and varied from ship-to-ship? Or could they swing the hoists around underway and display either configuration? And if they could do either configuration, what would be more appropriate for a combat patrol?

Thank you all for any and all help.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:38 pm 
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The first image you posted is the normal stowed position for the ships boats.

The second image you posted is the outboard position ready for rapid deployment. In the South Pacific, not noticed it in the North Atlantic, the destroyers seem to keep one or both boats in the outboard deployed position to retrieve downed aircrews or survivors of ships sunk.

Here is an onboard photo of the crew working a ships boat. To get the boat in the stowed position, the crew would swing the boat cranes forward with the forward most one further than the aft one until the stern of the boat cleared the crane, then pull the boat inboard. Then they would rotate the forward crane back and inboard and the aft crane would rotate forward and inboard. You can see one of the nesting arms for keeping the boat from free-swinging and then the boat could be tied down to keep it stowed.

Image


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:05 am 
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Awesome and thank you! Any idea how frequently both where deployed vs just one? And did it seem there was any preference on starboard vs port? In the one picture I've seen of Laffey, at least the starboard is deployed, so I'm just trying to decide if I also deploy the port boat.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:29 am 
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I don't know that there is a firm answer that one or both boats were deployed or if the port or starboard boat was deployed over the other. I have seen photos of FLETCHERS in the South Pacific with both boats swung out. But, I would think that it would depend on what the CO thought was needed for the situation at hand. If they were going to be going alongside for refueling, the boats certainly would be stowed or strapped to the ship. There were a fair number of causalities for the ship's boats during the war for various reasons. So a destroyer may only have one boat available to deploy.

In looking at the LAFFEY photos with USS WASP (CV-7) survivors onboard, it looks like the starboard boat is in the deployed position but securely strapped to the ship so the boat isn't free swinging. In a sense it is the best of both methods.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:05 pm 
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Rick E Davis wrote:
I don't know that there is a firm answer that one or both boats were deployed or if the port or starboard boat was deployed over the other. I have seen photos of FLETCHERS in the South Pacific with both boats swung out. But, I would think that it would depend on what the CO thought was needed for the situation at hand. If they were going to be going alongside for refueling, the boats certainly would be stowed or strapped to the ship. There were a fair number of causalities for the ship's boats during the war for various reasons. So a destroyer may only have one boat available to deploy.

In looking at the LAFFEY photos with USS WASP (CV-7) survivors onboard, it looks like the starboard boat is in the deployed position but securely strapped to the ship so the boat isn't free swinging. In a sense it is the best of both methods.


Thank you!


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 Post subject: USS Endicott DMS-35
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:33 pm 
I'm brand new to the site and have found it very interesting. I hope to soon post a picture of the Endicott DMS-35 that I haven't seen yet on the internet. My dad served as a radio operator on the Endicott just after the surrender. There seems to be very little info on the ship during that period of mine sweeping (a brief mention in Wikipedia). I'm looking for any information that anyone can point me to about that time period (post-WWII pre-Korean). I'm also interested in what model kit would get me closest to the Endicott's DMS-35 configuration.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:13 pm 
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The DMS units were quite active during the post-WWII era particularly during the Korean War, operating as both "minesweepers and destroyers" escorting heavier units until the last units were decommissioned by 1955. There are some images of the typical layouts for these DMS conversions in this thread that may be of use. The post-WWII DMS units had changes made to them, depending on time period and unit involved, to radar and removal of some AA-guns. But, during the immediate post-WWII period, your Dad's ship would have had few changes from the WWII service configuration. Finding photos of specific units may be required.

As for modeling USS ENDICOTT (DMS-35). The issue you will have is that she was one of the 20 Square-Bridge GLEAVES class units built during WWII. None of the BENSON-GLEAVES DML kits (1/350 scale or 1/700 scale) have a version of this configuration. There is/was a resin aftermarket conversion bridge available for the Square-Bridge units. I don't know if those bridges are still available. They are discussed in this review ...

... http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/mi ... eview.html ...

Here is an overhead view of a sister DMS, unfortunately she is a "Round-Bridge" unit, but it shows what you Father's ship's layout would have been in 1946.

Image


Last edited by Rick E Davis on Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:21 pm 
Rick, can you suggest a brand/model that I should consider as the base model?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:02 pm 
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The only plastic kit I know of in 1/350 scale are the DML BENSON-GLEAVES kits. In 1/700 scale there are DML and Pitroad Skywave kits.

Depending on your subject and timeframe, any of the BENSON or GLEAVES kits would be a good start. None of the kits have the late war "Anti-Kamikaze" quad 40-mm mounts parts, so some scratch and/or after-market part hunting would be needed.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:18 pm 
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Rick,
Apart from the square bridge, is there a source that you know of for the mine sweeping equipment? (Sorry but I don't know the proper terminology.)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:45 am 
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Sonofasailor,

Sorry, I didn't see your post at first. I have been busy.

I'm not aware of aftermarket parts for the Minesweeping Gear on the GLEAVES class DMS units. Some of the reels are fairly simple and could be scratch made. The sweeper paravanes MAY be available somewhere, since they were regular equipment on cruisers and battleships. You could ask one of the 3-D Printer guys to make some of the components. Somewhere in this thread I posted drawings of the equipment on the fantail. Not sure if they are in scale, but appear close enough in even 1/350 scale. Plus, I posted some close-up images of the fantail gear in this thread as well.

Also, there is a set of BGP drawings for USS DAVISON (DMS-38) on the NHSA website, which is nice for your case because she was a square bridge unit. The plans show her in her final Post-WWII configuration, but it is fairly easy to see what was changed/removed from late WWII configuration.

... http://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... /dd618.pdf ...


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:55 pm 
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If you can find the 1945 DML Buchanan kit in 1/350 she had the two dual 40mm mounts. The Admiralty square bridge is decent to work with but the PE for it is flimsy white metal so be careful. The GMM detail set for Benson/Gleaves is also good.

As for photos, I seem to remember running across some in NARA that were of her as a DMS, but never scanned them. You might try seeing if NARA has anything online.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:17 pm 
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They are not as good as the starboard side views posted earlier, but here are two images of the portside of USS BARTON (DD-599) taken from USS NORTHAMPTON at the Battle of Santa Cruz. The starboard views are at ... viewtopic.php?f=49&t=24483&start=1000#p692658 ... and ... viewtopic.php?f=49&t=24483&start=940#p672829 ...

These two portside views are better than the one I posted here ... viewtopic.php?f=49&t=24483&start=880#p598914 ... from 80-G collection at NARA II.

Hopefully in total these images are useful for defining the camo that BARTON wore since leaving Boston Navy Yard.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:29 pm 
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Barton DD 599 Model Builders

I have 5 more port side crops on a word document that I have not had any luck trying to post here. I adjusted all of them with contrast/brightness to try to make camo details visible. The best of the crops is the one above for a total of 6. Nonetheless in the others you will see small details such as stack camo despite the blurred quality due to the long range to Barton in these photos. I made this document for a future Barton model for myself. Best I can figure all camo was changed to include I am pretty sure the stacks and I am fairly sure the 5 inch mounts. For what very little mount detail can be extracted from these photos you might as well stick with the commissioning photos but that of course is your call. All of these photos were included in a group that Rick recently found at NARA dealing with Santa Cruz that he kindly shared with me.

Think it is fair to say a rather unusual and interesting pattern that should not be too difficult to try to duplicate. Other than the hull and bridge port side will be mostly guesswork. Starboard side you should be able to get very close to full accuracy thanks to the photos Rick has posted previously.

The word document will also be included inside a flash drive I will be giving to Martin Quinn later this month in case you have any trouble contacting me.

If any of you have an interest please email me.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:18 am 
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As an aid on painting BARTON's camo since these limited distant images don't show areas like the bridge, 5-in gun mounts, and stack looking at fore and aft sides. BARTON was painted at Boston Navy Yard in her Ms 12R(mod) pattern replacing the pattern the builder had painted her to. Each of the Navy Yards seems to have adapted a "similar" Ms 12R(mod) pattern "style" that they painted destroyers (NO two Ms 12R(mod) patterns were so exact or common, resulting that NO two destroyers would have exactly the same pattern). Boston started applying the same style of camo on destroyers starting roughly in the February-March 1942 time period right up to August 1942 when they started applying either Ms 18 or Ms 22.

There weren't that many of the BENSON-GLEAVES destroyers painted at Boston that made it to the Pacific while still in Ms 12R(mod). However, there were many of the BENSON-GLEAVES class units in the Atlantic Fleet that were, particularly the original units (DD-421 through DD-444). The four most well known units to serve in the Pacific are the four units in DesDiv 22 (DD-433 through DD-436) that came to the Pacific with USS HORNET (CV-8). There are a great series of photos of USS GRAYSON (DD-435) taken in June 1942 at MINY showing her "Boston Style" pattern. Looking through Navsource for photos will turn up examples of destroyers painted in this Boston "style" of pattern.

Here are examples of the Boston style pattern on USS EDISON (DD-439) (applied early in 1942), USS COWIE (DD-632) (painted at the same time as BARTON), and USS GRAYSON (DD-435). Plus a couple of units that were painted by Federal and/or NYNY (New York started to paint close to the Boston style by the sumner of 1942, besides painting several different experimental styles) and served in the Pacific, USS LARDNER (DD-487) and DD-486 LANSDOWNE (DD-486). Hopefully these images will give you an idea of how they carried over the patterns around the stacks and the bridge areas. Boston was actually kind of sparing on painting patterns on the superstructures, stacks, and mounts when compared to New York.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 6:38 pm 
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I was wondering if anyone has any information that would help with rigging a Benson/Gleaves class DD? Yes, I've finally made it to the last stage of my 1/350 USS Laffey build (other than finishing details on the sea base)! I've found a couple pictures (including one a bit further up this page), but it's hard to be totally sure of the rigging from the pictures I've found. Thanks for any help!


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 10:48 pm 
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You will need to be more specific. Which destroyer(s), time frame, and configuration, are you modeling to? The total rigging ... antennas, etc were altered for this Dual-Class several times as the ships were modified.


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 1:55 am 
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I can give you one for one that I will be working on as soon as my newer Tungsten wire gets here:


Fall 1942 (August to November/December) - all after each transfer or assignment to the South Pacific.
• Benson-class
– USS Laffey
– USS Farenholt
– USS Barton
• Gleaves-class
– USS Monssen
– USS Buchanan
– USS McCalla
– USS Duncan
– USS Aaron Ward

I have about half of these completed to basic subassemblies, that I have now learned that I need to paint before assembly and attachment of a lot of PE.

And that will speed Rigging them once the Tungsten Wire arrives (.013mm and .025mm).

MB

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Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 1:17 pm 
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Rick E Davis wrote:
You will need to be more specific. Which destroyer(s), time frame, and configuration, are you modeling to? The total rigging ... antennas, etc were altered for this Dual-Class several times as the ships were modified.


USS Laffey (DD-459) at the time of her sinking in November 1942.

While I appreciate more specific, I am ok with generic plans that would be in the "ballpark". I think model ships look a little lifeless without any rigging, but I likely won't do a full rig. Enough to convey the complexity and show up at some angles/photos like real life (where it's not always visible). I do appreciate any help.


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