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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:51 pm 
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Dick or AR;

Can you make out what her colors were, or guess what they would be?



Bob Pink.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:06 am 
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We are dealing with black and white photos so this is guesswork but...

I’m going to go with 507a and 507c if two colour, add 507b if three colour. The starboard 1942 view seems to show a third colour at low level – but this may be the effect of shadow (stern area depth charge rack overhangs) and water wetting as there is low level darkening of the dark painted areas as well. But the port view seems to show a small amount of a third (medium) grey just forward of the deck break.

My guess is that this is the scheme she was repainted in during her late 1941 refit at Singapore and that this is therefore the scheme she wore at the time PoW and Repulse were sunk. It is probably based on what she had worn in the Med up to then serving with with the 10th Flotilla based at Alexandria. Her Singapore refit finished just before war broke out in the Far East and until then she would perhaps have been expecting to go back to the Med.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:31 am 
Cannot post or copy the photo that I have, as it a private one.

Would not be surprised if by the time of sinking in April, two single 20mm had been fitted in place of the pom poms. If so, then this would have been done at Columbo. Just a guess.

This request for data should be addressed more to Australian readers and researchers. Perhaps placed on another message board?
Come on M E, do your stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Tamiya HMAS Vampire
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:12 pm 
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Michael E. wrote:

I wish I could share your optimism, but the E Class destroyer kit is in a pre-war (or very early war) fit, and certainly does not depict any of the E Class destroyers as they appeared when assigned to Force Z, and from what I can make out from the photos of the Vampire in the link you so kindly provided, it seems to me that this is a pre-war fit for Vampire as well.

We'll need better photos to judge.

Mike E.


Well then, perhaps their inspiration is somewhat uninspired--that, or they have a Force Y (not quite Z) theme... :heh:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:16 pm 
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Vampire had a major 5 month refit and work up at Singapore between 20th May and November 1941 after returning from the Med.
She was in a very poor condition and vibrated heavily if drove over 16knts.
At Singapore she had her entire upper deck removed and I suggest some of her wartime A and A's could have bene done at this time.

The only eyewitness mention I could find of her AA fit in 1941 after a brief check was this stated by someone onboard during the sinking of PoW & Repulse "Vampire's 12pdr opened up a stacatto bark followed by the four inch and then the pom-poms and last of all the machine guns".

Vampire arrived in Columbo escorting 2 merchantmen on the 11th of Feb 1942 after departing Java and giving the Japanese the slip.
She operated out of Columbo for the rest of that month providing escort and A/S patrols.
By March, she was operating with Hermes out of Trincomalee and both were intended to be used for subsequent operations against Madagascar.
Oerlikon guns are mentioned being fired at the Japanese when she was sunk off ceylon in April 1942 by some of her survivors.

Like ar I have a stb. quarter photo of her probably early 1942, but its very poor quality and is the same one from the AWM mentioned by Dick.
I can confirm what he see's, in addition from my notes on Vampire I have her down acquiring the following A and A's, but I have encountered conflicting information in the RAN sources I examined:

After set of 21-inch triple tubes replaced by initially a 1 x 3" 12pdr and later by 2 x 2pdr's - Vampire was the only ship to have this - the other 3 RAN V/W got 1 x 12pdr 3" HA in the usual circular bandstand.
To allow later for the additional weapons in Vampire a rectangular bandstand was fitted in the tube space (I can see this on my wartime photo).
Vampire's searchlight platform was resited between her funnels.
2 x 0.5 Vickers were fitted on each bridge wing for all the RAN V/W's except Waterhen. according to Michael Wilson who is the only source to suggest this.
I have found no photographic evidence to support Vickers on the bridge wings, and only that twin lewis guns were installed on their bridge wings in wartime before 20mm was available.

All 4 RAN V/W's mounted another 0.5 Vickers on the pom-pom platform
aft of the second funnel replacing the pom-pom and many sources confirm this as being in 1941.
Wartime fit was 50 Depth Charges carried, 4 throwers and 2 chutes.
According to Richard Nailer Vampire recieved later 20mm on her bridge wings, but gives date simply as 1941 which would need investigation.

One final point is I've seen photos of these RAN V/W's with twin Lewis guns mounted on the quartedeck so Vampire may have had a pair either side there also.

One wonders with these A and A's in mind and with our crewmember above mentioning the firing of a pom-pom in Dec 1941 some of the above A and A's could have been undertaken in 1942 rather than her major refit at Singapore in 1941.

This 1942 Vampire photo also appears uncensored to show her possibly with radar atop her mast, but again the poor quality means this is hard to be certain on - possibly Type 281.
If I scanned it it probably would not show up.
She's in camouflage of at least 2 colours possibly 3 its hard to tell due to shadows and blurring.
I have 1 other wartime photo of her refitting in a drydock at Malta in March 1940, but she retains her pre-war look.
I have 3 pre-war photos of her also which are better quality.

Further I have a good onboard shot on an RAN V/W taken next to the aft tubes looking forward. Sadly what ship it is isn't given. Its likely an early wartime shot as both triple tubes are present and twin lewis MG's can be seen mounted on the bridge wings along with some canvass matting around the bridge.

I did find a close up bridge photo of Vendetta with 20mm in the bridge wings however the photo is undated.
I have another of her being towed in March 1942 from the bow.
It would appear she only has a single lewis on the stb. bridge wing, but she has likely been stripped bare for towing from Singapore back to Australia.

When I have more time I might be willing to post more.

EDIT: I have located another much closer and clearer wartime photo of Vampire from the stb broadside.
I shall try to post it soon.
I also found further mention from one of her survivors she had 20mm by the time she was sunk in 1942.


Last edited by Laurence Batchelor on Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:42 am, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:01 am 
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Apart from the many excellent photographs on the Australian War Memorial site, another useful resource for those interested in the Australian V/W class destroyers (Vampire, Vendetta, Voyager and Waterhen) and their leader (Stuart) is the RAN official ships' history site
http://www.navy.gov.au/spc/history/shiphistorymain.html


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:55 am 
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A better view of the new kit is now available at http://www.tamiya.com/japan/products/89 ... /index.htm


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:47 am 
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And here is another angle:

http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/item.p ... t-id=31910

Looks like release of the kit by itself looms.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:49 am 
I've also seen the boxart. Err...probably on Hobby Link Japan.

Prewar fit, despite hopes, but as said above a V/W is worth having anyway.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:26 pm 
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I promised to put this photo up many weeks back, but I've been far to busy to get around to it.
Anyway, here it finally is, in compressed format and from an ex-crewmember, HMAS Vampire c1941:

Image


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 Post subject: HMAS Vampire Camouflage
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:19 am 
Laurence:

Many, many thanks for sharing this with us. This is a beautiful and very useful photo. Looks like Vampire wore a three tone scheme. Any guesses as to the colors? Would that be a three tone gray scheme (AP 507A, AP 507B, and AP507C)? Or an admiralty disruptive scheme (AP 507A, B5, 507C or a similar variant)? Anyone have any thoughts?

Regards all.

Mike


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:46 am 
The photo has to have been taken in 1942, not 41.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:55 am 
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ar wrote:
The photo has to have been taken in 1942, not 41.


That is even better. So this means shes in her final fit when sunk?



Bob Pink.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:26 am 
Quincy wrote:
ar wrote:
The photo has to have been taken in 1942, not 41.


That is even better. So this means shes in her final fit when sunk?



Bob Pink.




NO, it means maybe.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:51 am 
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I disagree ar for this reason:

1 x 12-pounder guns embarked in Alexandria in April 1941
2 x 2-pounder guns embarked in Singapore on 5 January 1942

Both of these were in place of the aft triple torpedo tube.
The photo shows 1 x 12pdr shipped not the latter 2 x 2pdr on the rectangular platform refitted at Singapore in Jan1942 (which can be viewed on the link to the RAN site on page1 of this topic).
Thus the photo is pre-Jan1942 and therefore 1941, and after her Mediterranean exploits also so late 1941.

I would suggest the colours are most likely 3 shades of greys, but thats just my own personal opinion.


Last edited by Laurence Batchelor on Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:05 pm 
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Laurence,

Thank you for this photo. This will come in handy when Vampire is released. :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:



Bob Pink.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:11 pm 
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So if this photo is late 1941,this then is the Holy Grail .....what Vampire looked like when escorting Force Z....!?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:15 pm 
So, it's a challenge is it.
What date did the ship leave the Med to go east?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:33 pm 
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ar wrote:
So, it's a challenge is it.
What date did the ship leave the Med to go east?


Someone has to keep you entertained.
According to my notes she left Alex on the 29th May, went through Suez in the afternoon of the same day.
Port Said was reached on the 30th, Aden on the 2nd June, Bombay on the 8th, Colombo on the 11th and Singapore on the 19th of June 1941.
On the 20th she then entered the dockyard until November 1941 for her major refit.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:24 pm 
Are you sure that you want to stick to the 1941 date?


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