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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:22 am 
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What features would be needed to convert a 1/350 Dragon Gleaves to other 1,500 ton classes, assuming the hull is a close match?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:54 am 
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Thanks, Rick!

When it comes to the design differences and similarities of the 1500 tonners, if I don't see the photos right before my eyes I get so confused I don't whether to scratch my watch or wind my butt.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:46 am 
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ModelMonkey wrote:
What features would be needed to convert a 1/350 Dragon Gleaves to other 1,500 ton classes, assuming the hull is a close match?

Aside from the dimensions, something else that would have to be addressed is the difference in the deck edge of the forecastle. Note the sharp edge between the deck and the hull side in this photo of Ellet:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/0539803.jpg
Also note the faceted front on the forward shelter deck.

Now in this photo of Niblack, note the rounded deck edge and the shelter deck has both a rounded deck plan and a rounded deck edge forward of #2 5" mount:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix2/0542413.jpg

Any conversion plans would have to account for this "streamlining" on the Sims through Benson/Gleaves DD's. Also be sure to check whether the "extra" length in the hull needs to be cut from the forecastle area or further aft. It can be done, you just need to be aware of the issues.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:38 am 
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Hello fellow modelers. Just bought the Iron Shipwright USS Ellet with the intent to build the USS Sterett in its 1942 Guadalcanal configuration. After doing more research I have decided to do the Sterett in 1944 configuration with MS 32/11D paint scheme. I read Mr. Frank Fowlers post earlier in this blog on converting the Yankee Modelwork’s Benham to the Sterett. In it he mentions “during the refit in February 1943 the overhead protection was reinstalled since mounts 3 and 4 returned to open mounts”. The kit does not have the overhead protection so I was going to attempt to scratch build it. However, after reviewing all the photos in this blog and other sources it appears the configuration of the protective shield is different than the original layout. In the pictures that Rick Davis posted of the Benham on the first page of this blog the overhead protection looks totally different than what appears in the picture below. I’ve seen this structure in other pictures of the Sterett but none with a clear view of its layout.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:44 pm 
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Thanks David,
I know that the #3 and #4 guns are open mounts. I did n't make it very clear that what I was referring to is the shield coming out of the aft deck house in the photo below.

Scot


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:23 pm 
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There were 10 ships of the Benham class, and all 10 had the static blast shield you referenced as built. When the war started for the US, 8 of the 10 were in the Atlantic, where the open after guns were prone to icing up in the North Atlantic winters. So all 8 Atlantic units had the after mounts enclosed; #3 had a half shield with a canvas top and #4 had a full shield. The static shield was unnecessary topweight and was removed. The after torpedo tubes were also deleted as weight compensation for the shields and the additional depth charges. The two Pacific units, Benham and Ellet, retained all 4 tube mounts, the open guns aft, and the static shields. In 1942, when Wasp transferred to the Pacific, 4 Atlantic Benham's came with, DD399, DD406, DD407 & DD408. They retained their Atlantic fit until their first Pacific refits, at which time the enclosing shields were removed from the after guns. Of the 4 transfers, only DD399 seems to have reinstalled the static shield during her refit.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:25 am 
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Thanks Dick,

I was just trying to figure out what the structure was just behind the #3 mount. In the first picture I posted there is a sailor standing behind the #3 5"/38 and behind him is the structure I was referring to. Is it a locker or some other storage container?

Scot


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:59 pm 
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In looking at another photo taken in the yard at the same time, it looks like a big reel (it is covered in canvas in that view). Kind of unusual for a reel that size on a destroyer, so I'm not sure what it is for? In this other view from November 1943, it looks like it is for ropes or hoses?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:07 pm 
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Rick,

That's what I thought it looked like but didn't have a good enough resolution photo. This picture from NAVSOURCE seems to show a more angular structure. Since the photo you provided was later in the year I could assume that this was a temporary structure used during the yard work.

Cheers
Scot


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:57 pm 
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I've not seen much mention on this thread (save for Martin's original post) of Midship's rebuilt Cassin DD-372; which I'm about midway through building.
Having built Midship's Benham, I had some idea of what to expect :roll:
Still, I was surprised at how much Midship just plain left off Cassin. Poor research? Cutting corners on changes from the existing "base" 1,500 tonner kit?

Anyway, once I got past the first couple of errors/omissions I thought to make a list here for anyone else building this kit and wanting it to look even close to the real thing:
The forward funnel should not have a cap; that was prewar.
#1 turret needs a low shield, almost like a breakwater, in front of it. See the Downes photos on Navsource. (IIRC, this was mentioned in an old review of Cassin on this site)
Scuttles forward of the bridge are prewar, the new-build hull had none; fill them in.
The new Cassin & Downes had only one bow anchor; to starboard. The kit ignores this "minor" detail and has no anchors.
The kit shows just two single 20mm mounts, just below & abaft the director atop the bridge. Even Wikipedia knows there were six. There are two more beside the bridge on the same level as #2 turret, and one more on either side of the rear funnel. To Midship's credit they gave PLENTY of spare parts. From them I was able to cobble together mounts for those 20s straddling the funnel which kind of look the part.
Speaking of the director, it's incorrect. The alternate one, with the "arms" extending to either side, is needed and needs radar atop it. I won't attempt to properly ID the director or the radar atop it; Rick and the others who know US DDs can do so. EDIT: See just below from Rick for the designations of the director and both radars. Cheers Rick :smallsmile:
Radar is needed atop the foremast too. Here again, Midship's spare parts come to the rescue.
There are four oval life rafts readily apparent in Navsource photos; two on the main deck just under the bridge, the other two at the rail under the aft twin 40mm mounts.
The kit instructions would have you mount the cutters/whaleboats abeam the aft part of the bridge; Navsource photos show that the boats were to either side of the forward funnel.
EDIT: One more; between the twin 40mm mounts and the after tubes should be two raised circular platforms with small directors for the AA guns.

The experts on here will no doubt have some other tweaks; but the above will get me far beyond where I'd be following Midship's instructions.
BTW, Rick's "incidental" photos of Cassin at MINY, page two of this thread, are a HUGE help!
I hope this is helpful to anyone contemplating this kit. As always, thank goodness for both ModelWarships and Navsource!

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Last edited by Quaestor on Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:45 pm 
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The director and radar on the rebuilt CASSIN and DOWNES was a "Square-Back" Mk 37 director with Mk 4 radar. The same as used on FLETCHERS. The Air Search Radar is a SC-2.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:56 pm 
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I'm backdating three 1/350 ISW 1500 tonners - Patterson, Ellet, and Russell - to prewar. I have Veteran Model 5"/38 open mounts, 3D Model Parts 50cal MGs, and Shapeways funnels, but I don't know where to find quadruple TTs, searchlight platforms, or ship's boats. Short of scavenging 1/350 Dragon 1940 Bensons, can anyone suggest sources for the quad TTs, the towers, and the small boats? R/David Sandifer


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:04 pm 
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David,
I am in the same position you are but I'm doing the Sterett. I have Dragon's 1945 Benson that I'm taking parts from. It has two glad and two five tube torpedo tubes so I am using the quad TTs and building a Benson in the future with the 5's. It also has one canvas covered 5"/38. I'm still going back and forth between late war and Guadalcanal version (which had the canvas covered 5'). Because the Dragon kit has so many extra parts I can cannibalize it and still complete the Benson. I'm relatively new to ship modeling and don't know all of the possible sources for after market parts I don't know if this any help.

P.S. It was a pain trying to remove the funnel base to replace it with the Model Monkey funnel. I don't have all the correct cutting tools so I have a few divots to fill in.

Cheers
Scot Chiasson


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:25 pm 
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Scot,
Thank you for the reminder that quad TT mounts can be found in the 1/350 Dragon Benson/Gleaves DD kits. Problem solved.
Nope, there's no escaping the need to gouge out the ISW Ellet resin funnel base and fill with putty before adding Model Monkey Steve Larsen's Benham funnel.
L'Arsenal makes 1/350 26-ft whaleboats. Problem solved.
Searchlight platforms/towers might require scratchbuilding.
My resin ISW MK 33 FC directors are very flawed. I wonder if the Model Monkey would cast 1/350 MK 33 directors, as he has with MK 37 directors?
R/David


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:32 pm 
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I've been searching with no success. Are there any 1/700 kits currently in production and available for any of these destroyers: Farragut, Mahan, Gridley, Bagley, and/or Benham? Or does anyone know of good plans from which to scratch build? Thanks

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:42 am 
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I would like to see replacement Shapeways/MM 700 scale stacks for the Gridley (Bagley) class. These would enhance the Midships kits (as the Benham stacks have done).


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:28 am 
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I took some guesses at dimensions from some of the photos in this thread and started modeling the stack and the updrafts.
The transition piece still needs more work, though. C&CC would be appreciated.

Steve wrote:
I would like to see replacement Shapeways/MM 700 scale stacks for the Gridley (Bagley) class. These would enhance the Midships kits (as the Benham stacks have done).


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:55 am 
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Rick E Davis wrote:
The director and radar on the rebuilt CASSIN and DOWNES was a "Square-Back" Mk 37 director with Mk 4 radar. The same as used on FLETCHERS. The Air Search Radar is a SC-2.


What period (date) would this be?

Would this cover Aug - Nov '42?

MB

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:04 am 
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Steve wrote:
I would like to see replacement Shapeways/MM 700 scale stacks for the Gridley (Bagley) class. These would enhance the Midships kits (as the Benham stacks have done).

The Gridley and Bagley classes were very different ships. Their stacks were nothing alike. A unique stack would have do be designed for each class.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:13 am 
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MatthewB wrote:
Rick E Davis wrote:
The director and radar on the rebuilt CASSIN and DOWNES was a "Square-Back" Mk 37 director with Mk 4 radar. The same as used on FLETCHERS. The Air Search Radar is a SC-2.


What period (date) would this be?

Would this cover Aug - Nov '42?

MB

This only applies to those two ships, which were functionally destroyed at Pearl Harbor. The rebuilt ships only returned to service in the December '43 to February '44 timeframe.


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