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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:34 pm 
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Having started building the model Soveremenny class i was curious what these ships actually sounded like - as i would like to put a sound module in the model for the engines.

It's my understanding that they had steam turbines so the closest i have been able to get is the below link
http://www.harbormodels.com/site08/soun ... _steam.htm
Obviously that isn't the sound that would be made for a Destroyer, but something a lot smaller.
Can someone point me to a more suitable sound module

Any help is appreciated.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:07 am 
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actually a steam propulsion plant does not produce enough noise so as to hear the characteristic sound of the turbines or boilers working from a distance.

If you listen to this video you will notice that you cannot hear much noise from the ship's engines. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snMeF46l ... ure=relmfu

The best sound sample is from 00:32 till 00:34, where the guy is filming the ship's store. On his right hand is the entance to B2 engine room and you can clearly hear the sound from the engine room.
The most noisy machinery aboard a C.F. Adams class destroyer were the Forced Draft Blowers, fans that provided air to the boilers.

I guess Russian ships wont be that different. The basics are the same. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxMpTHdFETk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqe43wSDfiw

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:08 am 
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Correct, steam turbs don't make much vibration nor sound. The most noisy is perhaps the ventilation, forced draught fans and Turbo Alternators. The boilers or main turbine don't really much of a sound.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:09 pm 
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Any new tooling 1/700 scale ships to come out?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:56 pm 
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Pappy wrote:
carr wrote:
Pappy,

This photo may be helpful to you. It shows the props/rudder area fairly well. In combination with the link to the drawing from a couple posts ago, you should be able to modify the stern appropriately.
Image

I don't know if you want to go that far but the Sovremenny has a stern thruster, as shown here.
Image
Image


G'day Bob,

That is a great pic, even better than the previous one and it will be very useful, thank you very much. I now have what I need to modify the rudder area. The Bronco kit has many of he flaws of the Trumpy kit as I stated previously, and whilst I will not correct the poorly defined knuckle at the bow, I think getting the number of rudders correct is a must!

cheers,

Pappy


It appears to me that the Sovremenny rudder has 2 independently moving sections with a hinge in the middle, with the hinge axis being an extension of the main rudder pivot. Anyone else think this is what is showing in the picture?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:17 am 
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The rear underwater hull of trumpeter's 1/350 sovremenny is so far off the mark it might as well be from a canoe.

The twin rudder is easy to correct, the skeg containing the thruster takes a minor amount of work. But the hull form from around the propeller shaft gland is so far off the mark it has to be redone. Basically on the real ship, this part of the hull hollows out smoothly, giving a clear run of water to the props. On the model the hull remains full until just ahead of the prop shaft gland and then turns abruptly towards the transome.

The udalloy hull from trumpeter is far better in this area. I am going to see if I can transplant a section of udalloy underwater hull onto the sovremenny hull bottom.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:48 pm 
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Does anyone know if and where there are photos of the insides of Sovremenny and Udaloy helicopter hangers?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:44 am 
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udaloy hangar found surfing on the net
ciao peppe


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:14 am 
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Posted a couple in my Arkmodel Udaloy topic in the RC/Scratchbuilding board a couple of years back as well.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:24 pm 
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So it appears the shape of the opening in the roof of the Udaloy hanger is a truncated triangle, not a rectangle. The shape seems tailored specifically to fit the shape of Ka-27's folded rotor.

Also, it seems the platform on which the helicopter rests when in the hanger does not simply lift straight up and down to align with the flight deck, instead the plate move forward and down wards at 45 degrees to send the helcipoter into storage positoin, and lifts up and to rearwards to raise the helicopter back up to flight deck level. I suppose this allows the lift platform to be smaller, only having to stretch from the nose wheel to the main gear, instead of having to be as long as the helicopter itself.

It seems the Russians tailor their shipboard helicopter hangers much more specifically to one type of helicopter, and are willing to accept substantially more mechanical complexity, then in other people's surface combatants.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:39 pm 
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Well, if you take it to consideration for a moment, the Helix/Hormone family has been in service for quite some time with the Soviet/Russian Navy, and it's quite a useful helicopter in its design - it's very compact design, owing to its rotor configuration, which gives it a very convenient niche as a naval helicopter - the Blackhawk or other helicopters in the same role are very different in size, most notably in Length, than the Helix/Hormone.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:26 am 
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So it appears the shape of the opening in the roof of the Udaloy hanger is a truncated triangle, not a rectangle. The shape seems tailored specifically to fit the shape of Ka-27's folded rotor.


I doubt that's the main reason... if you look well there are two sets of rails, for two seperate hatches, practically they needed more space forward for that second pair of rails.
Another reason is probably reinforcement. If they'd take a big rectangular space, they lose a lot of strength, the outer bulkheads would have more tendency to bend inwards, while with this shape, there is more strength forward (aft there is no possibility of mounting a beam between the two bulkheads due to the entrance). General rule is the more material, the more strength (same reason why they round the corners of the deck on large tankers midship, these corners are high stress areas). This was clear to me when I was making my hangar as well, the truncated triangular shape was surprising strong (even from styrene)

The whole elevator thing allows them to have a lower hangar/aft superstructure in general. Same counts for Slava class etc. They are in general much denser packed with weapons and equipment than other navies' ships. Perhaps more dangerous, but also more powerful.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:59 pm 
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The tightness of Ka-27's fit in those hangers must seriously restrict how much maintenance work can be effectively carried out on the helicopters under weather protection.

It seems the last generation of Soviet warships tend to have somewhat smaller crews than comparable sized US warships. This suggest some of the mechanisation was necessary as labor saving devices, it also suggest the ability of these ships to perform self-maintenance may not be quite as high as in US warships.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:39 am 
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Agree on that hangar space, it looks like a really tight fit, although I don't know what is in the centre below the control tower and hangars. Possibly there are some doors that they can open to create more space and to move from one side to the other.

As for the last item, that really depends on design. It's quite possible that they have a lot of maintenance free items onboard and that they changed their organisation to require less people onboard. There are relatively speaking no brand new US designed ships.
In the merchant they reduced crews by automation. On the bridge you have 1 guy because the ship practically runs itself, with 1 lookout during the night.
Engine room is unmanned during night time, reducing the amount of necessary watchkeepers. And so on. That doesn't mean they can't do the maintenance at all, by automating certain tasks, they have more time for other tasks (including that maintenance).
Some items are rather maintenance free as well, certainly when bought off the shelf.
The only reason nowadays to keep that many people on warships is firefighting/damage control. You really don't need that many people for that either. Before you had the chances of being hit by several shells of different calibre etc. spreading fires all around with lots of fire fighting teams needed. Nowadays you're just likely to be hit by one or two missiles and that'll most likely already sink your ship, so no need for 20 fire fighting teams (and nowadays there's lots of very effective automated fire fighting systems as well).

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:54 pm 
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..


Last edited by carr on Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:39 pm 
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Yes, the CO2 system on cargo ships has been used a lot (unfortunately) with up till now a rather positive overall effect. Unfortunately fires happen rather frequently on cargo ships, of course they are not widely spoken about in the media, yet in that "world" they are widely documented and explained. And apart from that, I doubt they'd put a crew of 25 (with minimum allowed at somewhere between 17-20) on a supercarrier sized gas carrier or oil tanker without much consideration for this.
They are only allowed to do this by putting sufficient automation, including fire fighting installations. And I'm pretty sure they did some research about these things before doing it too.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:03 pm 
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Neptune wrote:
Nowadays you're just likely to be hit by one or two missiles and that'll most likely already sink your ship, so no need for 20 fire fighting teams (and nowadays there's lots of very effective automated fire fighting systems as well).



I understand the latest European anti-ship missile is designed to release 2 submunition right before impact for the sole purpose of overwhelming damage control and firing fighting efforts by causing 3 points of impact and fire with each hit.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:04 am 
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Hey saw this on hobby link Japan and saw there is a new kit of sovremenny 1/700. does anyone know any info on it whether it is new tool or not? http://www.hlj.com/product/zve9054/Nav


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:11 am 
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I'd be interested if it is a new tool, considering their Pyotr Velikiy model is a repop of the Dragon molds, and that leaves me skeptical of the overall result.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:22 am 
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Nice photo of an Udaloy and Delta IV in drydock posted on Reddit today:

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