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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:45 pm 
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Hi All:
Researching Tribals, I found the apparent load for depth charges was usually 30-40, question is, where were they stowed? The stern racks didnt hold that many, and the throwers didnt have stowage cages. Were they below decks? Thx


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:13 pm 
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Ready use spare DC`s were normally carried on a wooden stock fitted on the quarterdeck close to the rail.

Dependent on the type of projector (thrower) fitted, the ready use spares were stored close to the thrower for quick reload.
The attachment shows a MK II DCT, because the MK II fired the DC and arbour attached, the ready use spares were stowed upright in a hollow pedestal, usually a bank of 3, attached to the arbour ready for reload, the arrow shows the spare arbours against the bulkhead, the circle shows the spare DC attached to cradle/arbour, and stowed into a pedestal.

The MK IV thrower was of different design and retained the cradle/arbour only firing the DC, and the reloads were stowed in a 2 tier rack.
This is how you at first glance can identify if the ship is fitted with MK II or MK IV throwers, by it`s DCT stowage arrangement.

Any remaining DC`s were stowed below deck in a magazine, in this case probably the HA warhead room.


Attachments:
DC STOWAGE QUARTERDECK.jpg
DC STOWAGE QUARTERDECK.jpg [ 131.06 KiB | Viewed 3092 times ]
MK II DCT.jpg
MK II DCT.jpg [ 70.44 KiB | Viewed 3092 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:16 pm 
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Awesome Brett thanks for the explanation! I figured there had to be 2 different DC thrower designs, since some had the arbours and some didnt.
Also, had no idea the DC were stored below decks. Thx again for the pics too.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:51 pm 
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I have a question about the 2 stacks on the tribals too...Trumpeter suggests a 'top' on the stacks, but were they not hollow? I have the Munro plans and it doesnt really show


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:15 am 
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I don`t have the kit, but are you sure they are not referring to the funnel cravat?
I can see on the sprues that they have supplied these, and also 2 basic PE funnel cages.
Apart from any gallery outlets, the funnels were hollow with a grate platform inside, and a descend ladder, similar to the attached Hobart funnel but of course smaller.

The Arunta shot shows workmen standing on the grate inside the funnel.

It may have been mentioned in the past and I missed it, but what I did notice on the sprues, they have supplied the wrong props, Tribals had 3 blades, not 4.


Attachments:
Arunta, 2nd quarter 45.jpg
Arunta, 2nd quarter 45.jpg [ 119.17 KiB | Viewed 3012 times ]
funnel cravat.jpg
funnel cravat.jpg [ 94.92 KiB | Viewed 3012 times ]
hobart forward funnel.jpg
hobart forward funnel.jpg [ 123.83 KiB | Viewed 3012 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:52 am 
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Thanks again Brett! Yes, I have now modified my trumpeter stacks as per your ref photos.
Regarding the previous message you supplied about the depth charge stowage, does your second picture show the ready-use DC stored in a pedestal alongside the actual thrower? Or are they stored against the bulkhead?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:37 pm 
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Different ships had different stowage arrangements, in the case of RN/RAN tribals fitted with MK II throwers, the readyuse spares were stored in upright pedestals, usually 3.
The pedestals where arranged with the centre pedestal offset to allow space for the loading davit and its operation.

In the case of the previous attachment which is Arunta, the spare arbors are stowed against the bulkhead WITHOUT the DC, other ships had different arrangements like the Vervain attachment ( arbors already attached to spare DC`s against bulkhead) note NO pedestal mounts are fitted.
If the ship was fitted with pedestals, spare DC`s would be brought up from magazine below as required, and fitted to spare arbor, then loaded into pedestal previously emptied.
The Eskimo shot shows a spare DC/Arbor being loaded into its pedestal.

Because refits were always being carried out, many MK II were replaced by MK IV later in the war, so it is important to check your references, as previously stated, any thrower which has a spare DC rack located in close proximity is a MK IV.
As an example Warramunga as built was fitted with MK II`s but by mid 44 these had been replaced with MK IV`s.
All the best.


Attachments:
MK II pedestal arrangement..jpg
MK II pedestal arrangement..jpg [ 68.64 KiB | Viewed 2938 times ]
Vervain MK II.jpg
Vervain MK II.jpg [ 66.83 KiB | Viewed 2938 times ]
ESKIMO.jpg
ESKIMO.jpg [ 63.7 KiB | Viewed 2938 times ]
GASCOYNE MK IV.jpg
GASCOYNE MK IV.jpg [ 227.45 KiB | Viewed 2938 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:55 pm 
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As a followon to my previous post, the attachment shows a typical MK II arrangement with pedestals, a spare arbor is on the deck behind the pedestals, the canister in the thrower is not ready for firing as it is still lashed to the thrower.
The second shot shows the DC fitted to the arbor via a cable attached to the cradle points.

The pedestal set on a RN tribal appears to be aft of the thrower, on the RAN tribal sisters the set is located forward of the thrower, not sure about the Canadians so check your references.

Different sources quote different info, but it is my understanding that the DC fitted on the MK II was lashed to the cradle, when fired a shear pin would release the arbor cable from the DC, and the arbor would fall away from the DC in decending flight.
Mk IV throwers also had a shear pin/cable arrangement on the cradle which broke in the firing sequence, the DC continued it`s travel and the cradle and spigot were retained and arrested by the damping pistons on either side of the thrower barrel.

Some photos show the DC just sitting within the cradle, to my mind this would be perilous as a heavy swell could actually drop the DC over the side before it is fired, if any of my information is incorrect I`m sure I`ll hear about it.


Attachments:
MK II thrower with MK VII DC.jpg
MK II thrower with MK VII DC.jpg [ 95.99 KiB | Viewed 2931 times ]
MK II  p1.jpg
MK II p1.jpg [ 106.72 KiB | Viewed 2931 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:54 pm 
Cool Brett, you have quite a knowledge on this...Im building Haida and have the Munroe plans and it does show reload DC with arbour attached stowed against the bulkheads behind the 2 throwers, one each port & starboard side.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:56 am 
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HMCS Athabaskan II 1955 with refit funnel caps.

Image
Image

HMCS Huron 1940's
Forward
Image
Aft
Image

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:45 pm 
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Great shots Darren.
Do you have any clear stern shots of a Canadian tribal in drydock, showing props?
Cheers


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:54 pm 
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Hey Darren & Brett: You are helping me make this Haida very accurate & detailed!
Brett - Here is the Munro plan showing Haidas starboard side DC stowage


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Scan.jpg
Scan.jpg [ 308.3 KiB | Viewed 2838 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:13 pm 
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Brett Morrow wrote:
Great shots Darren.
Do you have any clear stern shots of a Canadian tribal in drydock, showing props?
Cheers


Sorry, no. All the DD pics I could find are from the Bow.
I have good pics of Haida when she was pulled out a few years ago. Doesn't look like she changed much from the war.
Her Prop is on land beside her, looks original.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:50 pm 
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Unfortunately, stern photos of tribals out of the water do not exist within the public domain, I certainly cannot find any.
Pity any drydock stern shots of Haida don`t show the props attached to the shafts.

Darren, do you know if the Haida prop exhibit is orientated correctly?
Viewed from the name plaque side, is the left prop actually the port, and the right actually the starboard?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:15 pm 
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From the references available, it looks like any Canadians that saw war service were fitted with MK II`s, but without any pedestal arrangement.
It appears the plan is correct for a Canadian tribal before mid 45, the spares would be fitted to arbors and collared to the bulkhead, unlike the RN/RAN ships, the fitted spares would need to be trolleyed to the loading davit.
The previous shot of the single MK II, is interesting as it shows a line of empty arbors, and also a DC sitting in a stock, the cleat behind the crewman may indicate an abor, or several of them fitted to DC`s.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:18 pm 
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Brett Morrow wrote:
Darren, do you know if the Haida prop exhibit is orientated correctly?
Viewed from the name plaque side, is the left prop actually the port, and the right actually the starboard?


I do not know, I'll do some digging, see what I can find

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HM ... rio_12.jpg

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:36 am 
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Awesome Brett, I will include a MkII thrower & stowage as per the plan. Thx again for the advice.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:33 am 
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We have pretty much covered the DC arrangements of all 3 operators of the class.
The one omission on the topic has been HMAS Bataan.
Commissioned before wars end, but too late for any action, she was fitted with MK IV`s as built.

She appears to be unique in stowage fit, as 2 extra racks were fitted, port and starboard, presumably 2 canisters per rack.
These were present for only a short time, the blue circle identifies them, the red arrows show the rack and loaded MK IV thrower.

Maybe of interest, and not mentioned previous, the 6 canister Mk IV rack was positioned close to the thrower, the upper/outer canister was pushed straight into the thrower cradle, the racking mechanism them moved the next canister into the outer load tray for next reload, a bit like a carousel.
Cheers.


Attachments:
Bataan spare DC racks.jpg
Bataan spare DC racks.jpg [ 81.38 KiB | Viewed 6067 times ]
Bataan, June 45.jpg
Bataan, June 45.jpg [ 54.09 KiB | Viewed 6067 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:18 pm 
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Here's a pic of HMCS MICMAC's Props in 1961. So far the only Tribal Prop image I can find.

Image

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:45 pm 
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Thanks Darren, a rare find.
I also managed to find this shot of Arunta, props are hard to make out, but I can just distinguish the blade pitch.
They appear to match the pitch in your photo also, but I feel there may be an anomaly here.

Both shots do NOT appear to match the blade pitch of the Haida display as presented, what do you think?


Attachments:
Haida props.jpg
Haida props.jpg [ 176.26 KiB | Viewed 6013 times ]
Arunta, Garden Is..jpg
Arunta, Garden Is..jpg [ 159.8 KiB | Viewed 6013 times ]
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