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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:38 pm 
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Given the amount of information I have gathered on the Fubuki class over the last two years as I build four kits of the new PitRoad tooling, and play with a Tamiya kit as well (see build progress log here: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=36732 ), and with FineMolds set to release a 1/350 version sometime in 2009, it seems only proper that I attempt to share the information I have at hand.

As a start, a reasonably good overview is available at wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fubuki_class_destroyers

I’ve pasted a copy of that overview immediately below.

Overview
Preceded by: Mutsuki-class destroyer
Succeeded by: Hatsuharu-class destroyer
Subclasses: Type I (Fubuki class)
Type II (Ayanami class)
Type III ( Akatsuki-class)
Built: 1926–1933
In commission: 1928–1945
Completed: 24
Lost: 22

General characteristics
Type: Destroyer
Displacement: 1,750 long tons (1,778 t)
Length: 118.5 m (388 ft 9 in)
Beam: 10.4 m (34 ft 1 in)
Draft: 3.2 m (10 ft 6 in)
Propulsion: 2 shaft Kampon geared turbines
4 (Groups I & II) or 3 (Group III) boilers
50,000 hp (37,000 kW)
Speed: 38 knots (44 mph; 70 km/h)
Complement: 197[1]
Armament: • 6 × 127 mm (5 in)/50 caliber DP guns (3×2)
• 2 × 13 mm (0.51 in) Type 93 machine guns (2×1)
• 9 × 600 mm (24 in) torpedo tubes (3×3)
• 18 × Type 91 torpedoes
• 18 × depth charges


Introduction

The Fubuki-class destroyers (吹雪型?), originally only known as numbered destroyers 35 to 54 of the Imperial Japanese Navy "Special Type", were completed between 1928 and 1931. They were assigned names as they were launched, in keeping with Japanese practise.

Intended to set a new standard for IJN destroyers, the Fubukis were part of a program after World War I to give Japan a qualitative edge with the world's most modern ships.[2] As a result, they had heavy armament, high speed, and large radius of action. The Fubuki's not only set a new standard for Japanese vessels, but for destroyers around the world. At a time when British and American destroyers had changed little from their unturreted, single-gun mounts and light weaponry, the Japanese destroyers were bigger, more powerfully armed, and faster than anything that any other fleet possessed. They were to remain formidable opponents to the end of the war, despite being much older than many of their adversaries. (They also sparked the U.S. Navy's Porter-class, only eight of which were built.[3]) The Fubuki class has been called "the world's first modern destroyer."[4]

Description

Initially designed as a 2000 tonner with a 5-inch (127 mm) battery, two twin 24-inch torpedo tubes (just introduced in Mutsuki), and capable of 40 knots (74 km/h), they were modified in response to the Washington Treaty as 1680 tonners with more tubes, but slower, only 35 knots (65 km/h).[5] Contrary to previous IJN destroyer practice, the Fubukis had the forward torpedo tubes not in the fo'c'sle break, but between the siamesed[6] stacks (a location similar to U.S. ships). In addition, they introduced splinterproof, gas-tight turrets for the 5-inch guns, far ahead of their time.[7]

To increase comfort, the fo'c'sle was raised, the bridge enlarged and enclosed,[8] and the bows given a significant flare, to offer protection against weather in the Pacific.

Between June 1928 and March 1933, twenty-four Fubukis were built, in three groups.[7] The second and third groups had new 5-inch DP mounts, capable of elevating to 75° for AA use, making them the world's first destroyers with this ability.[7] The first group can be distinguished from later ships by their lack of ventilators atop the stacks,[7] while the third group's larger boilers gave them a narrower fore funnel.[7] As completed, group three introduced a unique splinterproof torpedo tube turret (later retrofitted),[7] allowing the tubes to be reloaded in action (both of which Western destroyers still did not do in the 1990s).

In 1934, Miyuki was sunk in a collision.[9]

As a result of several IJN ships suffering damage in a 1935 typhoon,[7] the Fubukis were rebuilt between 1935 and 1937 to improve hull strength and stability. This increased the displacement to 2050 tons standard and 2400 tons full load. The rebuild reduced the top speed slightly. They had a range of roughly 5,000 miles (8,000 km) at 14 knots.

As completed, Fubukis had twin 5-inch in "A", "X", and "Y" positions, with triple torpedo tubes in "D", "P", and "Q",[10] making them the most powerful destroyers in the world at the time of their completion. During the Pacific War, "X" turret was replaced by more AA, and radar was installed.

Only Hibiki and Ushio survived the war. An astounding eight were sunk by submarines, and two by mines.

As was common with most ships during World War II, the anti-aircraft armament was steadily upgraded during the war as the extent of the aircraft threat was realized. The anti-submarine capability was also upgraded. By 1945, the surviving ships of the class had one aft turret removed to create space and lighten the top for the addition of fourteen 25 mm anti-aircraft guns, two additional 13 mm anti-aircraft machine guns, and 18 more depth charges.

Types

There were actually two models of Fubuki, the original Type I (Fubuki) type, built in 1928 and 1929 and the following Type II (Ayanami) type built in 1930 and 1931. The Type I's primary 5-inch turret was known as the Model 'A', and could only elevate to 40°, whereas the Type II's Model 'B' turret could elevate to 75°. Furthermore, the Type II's bridge was enlarged and the boiler room's air inlet was changed from a pipe to a bowl shape. Sometimes listed as a third type, the Akatsuki-class was based heavily on the Fubuki.

The Fubuki destroyers sorted by type and order of registration are as follows:

Type I (Fubuki)
Fubuki (N°35) - built at Maizuru Navy Yard
Shirayuki (N°36) - built at Yokohama Navy Yard
Hatsuyuki (N°37) - built at Maizuru Navy Yard
Miyuki (N°38) - built at Uraga Dock Company
Murakumo (N°39) - built at Fujinagata
Shinonome (N°40) - built at Sasebo Navy Yard
Usugumo (N°41) - built at Ishikawajima
Shirakumo (N°42) - built at Fujinagata
Isonami (N°43) - built at Uraga Dock Company
Uranami (N°44) - built at Sasebo Navy Yard

Type II (Ayanami)
Ayanami (N°45) - built at Fujinagata
Shikinami (N°46) - built at Maizuru Navy Yard
Asagiri (N°47) - built at Sasebo Navy Yard
Yugiri (N°48) - built at Maizuru Navy Yard
Amagiri (N°49) - built at Ishikawajima
Sagiri (N°50) - built at Uraga Dock Company
Oboro (N°51) - built at Sasebo Navy Yard
Akebono (N°52) - built at Fujinagata
Sazanami (N°53) - built at Maizuru Navy Yard
Ushio (N°54) - built at Uraga Dock Company; scrapped 1948.

Type III ( Akatsuki-class)
Inazuma - built at Fujinagata
Akatsuki - built at Sasebo Navy Yard
Ikazuchi - built at Uraga Dock Company
Hibiki - built at Maizuru Navy Yard


Dan's note: I will add that 36 units were originally planned, but concerns about exceeding treaty limits for destroyer tonnage led to a cut back to 24 units. Also, note that Uranami is a transition ship between Types I & II and is officially considered its own class, Type I-hai. Further, the Type IIIs are clearly, & officially, a separate, and improved, subclass. Details regarding late war AA fit differ from ship to ship.

Available kits:

1/700

1972 (Waterline Consortium 1st generation) – Tamiya Issued

Type I

Fubuki, 1940 -Item # 31401, kit # WL401, originally issued 1972, re-issued 1994
Hatsuyuki,1943 -Item # 31404, kit # WL404, originally issued 1972, re-issued 1994

Type II

Ayanami, 1942 - Item # 31405, kit # WL405, originally issued 1972, re-issued 1994
Shikinami, 1944 - Item # 31408, kit # WL408, originally issued 1972, re-issued 1994

Type III

Akatsuki, 1940 - Item # 31406, kit # WL406, originally issued 1972, re-issued 1994
Hibiki, 1944 - Item # 31408, kit # WL407, originally issued 1972, re-issued 1994


2007+ Second Generation –Pit-Road (Skywave) issued (all come with lower hull option)

Type I

Fubuki, 1941 - Item # PITW-106, issued 2007
-Item # PITW-106E, with photo etched parts, released late 2007
Shirakumo, 1944 - Item # PITW-107, issued 2008
-Item # PITW-107E, with photo etched parts, released late 2007
Shinonome, 1941 - Item # SPW-08, issued late 2010
Murakumo, 1940 -Item # SPW-25, with new equipment set NE-07, released late 2013
Hatsuyuki, 1940 -Item # SPW-26, with new equipment set NE-07, released early 2014
Shirayuki, 1941 -Item # SPW-39, with new equipment set NE-07, released mid 2015
Miyuki, 1934 -Item # SPW-42, with new equipment set NE-07, released early 2016
Isonami, 1941 -Item # SPW-48, with new equipment set NE-07, released mid 2016




Type II

Ayanami, 1942 - Item #PITW-102, issued 2007
-Item # PITW-102E, with photo etched parts, released mid 2007
Shikinami, 1944 - Item #PITW-103, issued 2007
-Item # PITW-103E, with photo etched parts, released mid 2007
Oboro, 1942 -Item # SPW-28, with new equipment set NE-07, released mid 2014
Sazanami, 1944 -Item # SPW-29, with new equipment set NE-07, released mid 2014
Akebono, 1941 -Item # SPW-50, with new equipment set NE-07, released early 2017



Type III

Hibiki, 1945 - Item #PITW-104, issued 2007
-Item # PITW-104E, with photo etched parts, released late 2007
Ikazuchi, 1944 - Item #PITW-105, issued 2007
-Item # PITW-105E, with photo etched parts, released late 2007
Inazuma, 1944 -Item # SPW-24, with new equipment set NE-07, released late 2013
Akatsuki, 1940 -Item # SPW-27, with new equipment set NE-07, released early 2014



2015 Third generation – Yamashita Hobby Issued

Type I

Fubuki, 1941 - Item # NV.1, issued 2015
-Item # 20309, limited edition version with photo etch parts

Type II

Ayanami, 1942 - Item # NV.3, issued November, 2016
Amagiri, mid 1943 - Item # NV.5, pending October, 2017
Sagiri, 1941 - Item # NV.6, pending November, 2017


Type III

Hibiki, 1941 - Item # NV.2, issued June, 2016
Inazuma, 1944 - Item # NV.4, issued July, 2017


1/350

Fine Molds

Type II

Ayanami, 1942 -Item # FW1, released late 2010
Shikinami 1936 or 1941 -Item #38901, released July, 2011
Amagiri, mid 1943 -Item # FW2, released December, 2011



Some photos follow below to illustrate the different types, configurations and variations within type. I used some colorized photos because the contrasts show certain details a bit better than the standard black & white photograph, given the limits of this site’s resolution parameters:


Last edited by Dan K on Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:41 pm 
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Type I Isonami & Type IA Uranami, both in original configuration

Type I Usugumo after modernization 1936


Attachments:
Isonami & Uranami via Takagi p95small.jpg
Isonami & Uranami via Takagi p95small.jpg [ 144.44 KiB | Viewed 12835 times ]
Usagumo 1936small.jpg
Usagumo 1936small.jpg [ 148.09 KiB | Viewed 12818 times ]


Last edited by Dan K on Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:47 pm 
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Type II Ayanami as built

Type II Asagiri as built

Type II Asagiri as modernized


Attachments:
Ayanami as built, KMM DD vol, p57 b.jpg
Ayanami as built, KMM DD vol, p57 b.jpg [ 44.74 KiB | Viewed 12816 times ]
Asagiri as built small.jpg
Asagiri as built small.jpg [ 141.79 KiB | Viewed 12843 times ]
Asagiri after moderniztion 1936.jpg
Asagiri after moderniztion 1936.jpg [ 58.67 KiB | Viewed 12800 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:48 pm 
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Type II Akebono as modernized 1936

Type II Ushio after refit 1943


Attachments:
Akebono 1936, colorized.jpg
Akebono 1936, colorized.jpg [ 114.63 KiB | Viewed 12845 times ]
Ushio, Oct 1943 after refit, colorized.jpg
Ushio, Oct 1943 after refit, colorized.jpg [ 85.86 KiB | Viewed 12835 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:50 pm 
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Type III Hibiki bridge before modernization

Type III Akatsuki after modernization 1937


Attachments:
Hibiki bridge prior to mod, SOTW v610.jpg
Hibiki bridge prior to mod, SOTW v610.jpg [ 57.49 KiB | Viewed 12825 times ]
Akatsuki, 1937, Tateyama, colorized.jpg
Akatsuki, 1937, Tateyama, colorized.jpg [ 118.97 KiB | Viewed 12821 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:51 pm 
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There are several builds of Fubuki Types in the gallery. Apologies if I’ve missed any. As follows:

Type Is

A 1/700 build of Fubuki from the PitRoad kit by Andrew Johnson:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Another 1/700 build of Fubuki from the Tamiya kit by Waldo Silva:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

A build of Shirayuki from the 1/700 Tamiya kit by Eric Navas:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

My recent build of Shirayuki from the new 1/700 PitRoad kit: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

A build of mine of Shirakumo 1944, from a kitbash of the Tamiya hull and PitRoad parts:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html


Type IIs

1/350

The first build of the exquisite FineMolds kit of Ayanami 1942 from Bill Kluge:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Here is a diorama build of Amagiri running down PT-109 by Basilios Giehos: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm


1/700

A very notable, accurate, and smart, 1/700 build of Ushio via the PitRoad kit in her original configuration by Jeff Lin – see also the link of the buildup:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

A 1/700 build of Shikanami from the Tamiya kit by Ralph Kuo:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

A 1/700 build of Ayanami from the Tamiya kit by Steve Shrimpton. I think he did a great job with this kit:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

A 1/700 build of Sazanami from the Tamiya kit by Jesus Alcocer:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

My attempt to correct the 1/700 Tamiya kit into a Type II for Sazanami (ironically, my recent research makes me realize that this build cannot be of Sazanami, but more likely Amagiri in late 1943; I expect to cover that further on in this thread): http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Another nice 1/700 build of Ayanami from the Tamiya kit by Yifeng-Mao:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

My 1/700 build of a late war Ushio from the PitRoad Shikanami kit:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

My 1/700 build of Ayanami 1942, from the PitRoad Ayanami kit:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html



Type IIIs

A 1/700 build of Hibiki from the Tamiya kit by Eric Navas: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

A 1/700 build of Akatsuki from the Tamiya kit by Pete Longo:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html



Among the more surprising points that my research has enlightened me on are:

• Forecastle arrangements: Type I vs. Type II/III
• Air Intakes/hoods at the base of the funnels , other ventilator arrangements
• Funnels
• Foremasts arrangements
• AA fit
• Smoke generators
• Depth Charge Arrangements:
• RDF Compartments
• Bridge mounted running lights

I’ll try to tackle them as time allows.


Last edited by Dan K on Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:20 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:59 pm 
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Hi Dan,

Very interesting indeed :thumbs_up_1:

Could you give as well some japanese references as well, please ? :cool_1: :cool_2:

Congratulations for this detailed research :thumbs_up_1:

cheers

Gilbert :wave_1:

PS - Looking forward to an update on your IJN DD WIP :big_grin:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:07 pm 
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Some Japanese references include:

Gakken #18 on Fubuki class DDs
Gakken #70 on Fubuki class DDs
Gran Prix Shuppan Anatomy of IJN destroyers
Kojinsha Mechanisms of IJN destroyers
Kajainsha History of Japanese destroyers
Kure Maritime Museum – IJN Destroyer volume
Maru Special #s 7, 17, 21, 94, 95, 98 & 111
Model Art Ship Modeling Special # 27
Selected photos from the Shizuo Fukui collection 2 vol. set
Takagi IJN Photo Album
Hara Shobo IJN plans sets volume


Last edited by Dan K on Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:02 pm 
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I will add Main Armament as a category to be addressed.

Forecastle arrangements: Type I vs. Type II/III

Without access to detailed references in Japanese, perhaps all English speaking IJN modelers, myself included, have assumed that the all three Fubuki Type hulls were identical. For that matter, I believe that many Japanese modelers shared that belief. The truth appears to be otherwise.

I had no clue until I happened to compare the newly released PitRoad Type I kit with their new Type II and Type IIl kits. The Type I kit forecastle was shorter and finished more simply. That was a surprise, so I took a closer look at numerous photo references for all the Fubuki types.

Doing my best to visually match up the perspective angle from ship to ship in the KMM DD book (which is tricky as the perspective shifts subtly between photos), it does appear that the Type I’s forecastle break starts its transition a few meters aft the end of the bridge, whereas the forecastle break for the later types appears to begin few meters further aft, closer to the front of the #1 funnel. The first photo posted in this CASF, that of Isonami and Uranami, exemplifies this difference reasonably well as the photo angle is almost identical. Another key is the length of the triangular side plating that marks the transition between the decks.

Perhaps a better set of comparisons can be seen below. The cropped photo of Type I Usugumo’s bridge is at exactly the right angle to show the transition from the forecastle deck to the main deck. Compare that to the similar photo of the Type II Ushio and I think you can get a good sense of what I am trying to illustrate.

A review of the photo record also reveals that not all Type I vessels had the short forecastle. Two of them, Hatsuyuki and Murakumo, were built with the long forecastle. I’ve no idea why that is, other than as a prelude or test for the succeeding Type IIs. My Japanese source stated that the only the Type I lead ship from each yard had the short version, which would mean several more vessels with the longer forecastle, but the photographic record simply does not bear this out.

A good photo of Hatsuyuki depicting her longer forecastle is also depicted below. Note the length of the triangular side plating, along with the additional portholes typical of the long forecastle ships.

From a modeling perspective, this difference goes along way towards explaining why the old Tamiya 1/700 Fubuki kits are so frustratingly inaccurate. A quick comparison between Tamiya and PitRoad reveals that the Tamiya hull is (relatively) accurate only for the Type I. The late Types cannot be built using the Tamiya kit without heavy scratchbuilding.

Interestingly enough, the new PitRoad Fubuki offerings include a long forecastle Type I kit marketed as Shirakumo. While Shirakumo would seemingly qualify for this distinction under the qualifier of the lead yard ships, the photographic record says otherwise. So, the kit should probably built as Hatsuyuki, Murakumo or, (special bonus) Uranami, as Type II funnels & intakes are included in the kit sprues. In fact, you would need this particular kit to make Uranami.


Attachments:
Usagumo briudge crop.jpg
Usagumo briudge crop.jpg [ 123.49 KiB | Viewed 12809 times ]
Ushio postwar.jpg
Ushio postwar.jpg [ 77.18 KiB | Viewed 12800 times ]
Hatsuyuki, origiinal fit, small.jpg
Hatsuyuki, origiinal fit, small.jpg [ 132.01 KiB | Viewed 12797 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:03 pm 
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One last note on forecastles: While the PitRoad Type II/III kits depict an overhang under the extended rear of the forecastle deck, this space was actually filled by compartmentation. See the photos below of the Type II Ushio or Sazanami, and the Type III Akatsuki.


Attachments:
Ushio or Sazanami bridge rear, Feb 1942.jpg
Ushio or Sazanami bridge rear, Feb 1942.jpg [ 118.47 KiB | Viewed 12809 times ]
Akatsuki bridge rear.jpg
Akatsuki bridge rear.jpg [ 64.73 KiB | Viewed 12798 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:16 am 
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Thanks a lot Dan for sharing these very useful infos. :thumbs_up_1:

Would it be possible for you to list the ships which could be actually built with the existing kits ?

TIA

cheers

Gilbert


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:54 am 
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No, problem, Gilbert.

The PitRoad Fubuki kit & the Tamiya Fubuki/Hatsuyuki kit can be used to build all the Type I's except Hatsuyuki, Murakumo & the Type 1a Uranami. So, that would include:

Fubuki
Shirayuki
Miyuki
Shinonome
Usugumo
Shirakumo
Isonami

The PitRoad Shirakumo kit can be used to build Hatsuyuki, Murakumo or Uranami. Neither Tamiya Type I kit is appropriate for these 3 ships.

None of the other Tamiya Fubuki class kits (Ayanami, Shikanami, Hibiki & Akatsuki) is really appropriate for building a Type II or III. The other PitRoad kits are good for their respective types. I will be going into more details/corrections for those kits when time allows.

DK Note 11/19/10 - PitRoad has just released it's Type I kit as Shinonome 1941. Odd choice as her combat record was all of 2.5 weeks, sunk with all hands after being bombed by a Dutch flying boat off the NEI and having her aft magazine explode. The same ship limitations apply to this boxing as they did for the Fubuki boxing. PiRoad took the easy way out on the box art, too, taking the Fubuki boxart and changing it from a night to daytime setting. Lame. Compare.


Attachments:
Fubuki cover art, PitRoad small.jpg
Fubuki cover art, PitRoad small.jpg [ 75.69 KiB | Viewed 11906 times ]
Shinome boxart small.jpg
Shinome boxart small.jpg [ 72.35 KiB | Viewed 11906 times ]


Last edited by Dan K on Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:58 am 
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Thanks Dan, this is a good guideline to prevent fatal mistakes in builts :thumbs_up_1:

cheers

Gilbert


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:48 pm 
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Suberb job compiling all this info in here Dan :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: , i thank you for taking your time.


Jose


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:01 pm 
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Main Armament

All the Fubuki Types carried three twin mountings of the 12.7cm, 50cal DP weapon. However, these guns were carried in 4 successive turret types.

All the Type Is, and Uranami, carried Type A turrets. An improved mount, known as Type B, allowing a higher level of barrel elevation was introduced with the first Type II ship, Ayanami. All the Type II & III ships were so equipped. The Type B turret underwent two revisions known as B1 & B2.

Contrary to the information carried in some publications, Type I ships & Uranami carried the Type A turret throughout the war. The upgrade to the B1 turret occurred in the early to mid 1930s, the final upgrade to the B2 version seems to have taken place in the 1936-1938 timeframe. It varied from ship to ship. Also contrary to the information carried in some publications, the Fubuki Type IIIs were not upgraded to a Type C turret.

Edited 1-26-2012

It's come to my attention that the change to the B2 turret was limited to ONLY mount #1. This seems to be an often missed detail (certainly it was for me) as there just aren’t that many clear, detailed photos of #s 2 & 3 turrets of the Fubuki class units from the immediately prewar and early war periods. Fortunately, there are high quality photos of Sagiri and Sazanami in 1940 that confirms this mix of turret models.


Some illustrations and pics below.

Type A, B, B1, & B2 drawings
Type B2 turret pic, #1 mount, probably aboard Akebono


Attachments:
Type A turret small.jpg
Type A turret small.jpg [ 95.04 KiB | Viewed 12795 times ]
Type B turret drawing.JPG
Type B turret drawing.JPG [ 104.18 KiB | Viewed 12781 times ]
Type B1 turret drawing.JPG
Type B1 turret drawing.JPG [ 141.92 KiB | Viewed 12778 times ]
Type B2 turret drawing small.jpg
Type B2 turret drawing small.jpg [ 51.8 KiB | Viewed 13742 times ]
Type B2 turret #2 small.jpg
Type B2 turret #2 small.jpg [ 85.28 KiB | Viewed 13740 times ]


Last edited by Dan K on Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:08 pm 
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Another misconception (probably initiated by the Tamiya Fubuki kits), is the size of the Type A turret. Many seem to assume it is significantly smaller then the Type B turrets but, this is not so. The two turret types are comparable in height and length; only the width of the B turret is significantly greater. The weapon is the same except for the improved elevation in the later turret.

Some size comparisons below:

A cropping from a photo in Maru Special #17 with 3 of the DDs from DesDiv 19, circa 1931. Uranami with Type A turrets is on the left, Ayanami & Shikanami with the Type B turret are center and right, respectively.

Type A vs. Type B in Gakken #18


Attachments:
DesDiv 19 1931, MS#17 crop.jpg
DesDiv 19 1931, MS#17 crop.jpg [ 149.85 KiB | Viewed 12775 times ]
Type A vs Type B turret, Gakken #19.jpg
Type A vs Type B turret, Gakken #19.jpg [ 148.86 KiB | Viewed 12742 times ]


Last edited by Dan K on Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:09 pm 
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Three Type A turrets are available in 1/700: the turrets from the original Tamiya Fubuki/Hatsuyuki kits, the A turret from the new PitRoad kits, and the Type A turret from the PitRoad Equipment Set E-02 (formerly #38). The Tamiya turrets are nicely shaped but too small. The turrets that come with the PitRoad Fubuki kits aren’t bad either, but also too small. Only the A turrets from the E-02/38 set are correctly sized and detailed.

Two Type B turrets are available: those that come with the new kits, and those from the E-02/38 set. Again, IMHO, the those from the E-02/38 set are more correct.

Three Type B1/B2 sets are available (B1s differ from B2s in the details of the turret side vents and stiffeners and none of the available units has this detail on the sides; it has to be added.): from the PitRoad E-10 Equipment Set (one tree is included with each of the new Fubuki kits), from the older PitRoad E-02/38 set, and from the Leviathan/Tamiya/waterline consortium IJN Light Ordnance set for 1/700. Although a hair oversized, either PitRoad choice is far superior to the Leviathan/Tamiya offering, which is too small, and not as well shaped. Again, IMHO.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:38 am 
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L'Arsenal
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Hi Dan,

Thanks a lot again for sharing with us these detailed infos :thumbs_up_1: . With all the information gathered, you are on the right path to publish in future a booklet fully dedicated on IJN Fubuki class. If this appears, I will definitely get one :cool_2:

cheers

Gilbert


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:05 am 
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THx, Gilbert. Perhaps you can publish it. :cool_2:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:37 pm 
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Funnels

Type I – As originally completed, Type I funnels were capped with barely raked funnel grills. The previously posted photo of Usugumo’s bridge and forecastle break shows her #1 funnel in this configuration to good effect.

It appears that the funnel caps were refit and revised at least twice. The first time, the caps/grills were raked at a greater angle and topped out considerably taller than as built. They were subsequently lowered in the mid 1930’s, retaining most of the rake angle.

In terms of overall funnel height (to the top of the raked grill), the final configuration seems to top out about even with the top of the canopy covered lookout station atop the compass bridge level. The previously posted photos of Isonami or Usagumo 1936 on p. 1 of this thread, are a good illustration of the relative height of the funnel to the bridge. It is also worth noting that Type I funnels are noticeably thinner in profile then Type II and III (excepting fore funnel) funnels. There also may be some slight differences in cap angle/height between Type I ships.

The funnel design for Type II’s changed to a funnel approximately 20-25% wider in profile that the Type 1s. The earliest Type II’s (Ayanami & Shikanami, along with Type 1a Uranami ), were completed with funnel caps in the same flat manner as the original Type 1 configuration. These ships were later revised to higher cap with greater rake as illustrated by the Type II photo comparison below (Ayanami shows original funnel cap configuration, Amagiri shows revised funnel cap configuration, as does Oboro). Later Type II ships were completed with the raised arrangement.


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Type II midsection comparo.jpg
Type II midsection comparo.jpg [ 60.94 KiB | Viewed 12767 times ]
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