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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 5:55 am 
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Earlier this year, Yamashita has released 1/700 Uranami (the sole Type I/II hybrid vessel) in a "deluxe" version with PE parts.
https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10911814

The PE fret appears to be a completely new offering that is supposed to cover both Type I and II vessels in early and late war fittings - note bending templates for bridge windows on the left, what a great idea! Two types of main masts seem to be present as well, though the torpedo loading gantries are missing.

Image

Plastic parts allow to build a late-war Uranami, with one 2x127mm turret removed, enhanced AA and radar present. One thing that puzzles me is that all parts from early-war Uranami (released as NV10 some 3 years ago) are present, EXCEPT for a tiny T2B sprue with funnels. The funnels of Uranami are supposedly identical to early Type II Fubukis, but the current release of Ayanami does not feature the T2B sprue either - so what was the point of that sprue in the original Uranami boxing?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:43 pm 
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Early and late war main masts. A shame that they did not include PE torpedo loading gantries.

As to the funnels, it appears that sprue T2B offered the as-built, taller funnels. These were cut down by approx. 1 meter during the 1936 refits. (Instructions courtesy on HobbySearch Japan.)


Attachments:
YH Type II funnel instructions.jpg
YH Type II funnel instructions.jpg [ 128.32 KiB | Viewed 7212 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 4:46 pm 
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Great point as always Dan, thank you!

I only now noticed that the PE fret lacks funnel caps as well. Really weird selection of parts here.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 7:06 pm 
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Yep.

Both Rainbow and Five Star make 1/700 PE funnel grills. Or adapt one of the Tetra PE frets made for various YH Fubukis, I suppose.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:31 am 
Hello. I'm pretty new to 1:700 models and trying to get my best out of 50 years old Fubuki set from Tamiya - I'd like to create model of the latest setup from before she was sunk and have a lot of doubts:
1. The area covered by linoleum - is the model from Yamashita correct: https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10734892/60/1 or maybe this visualisation is more accurate: https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/fubuki- ... f3f13391da ?
In Carlo Cestra's "The Japanese Destroyer Fubuki" book from Kagero it just looks like brown painted metal deck https://www.mojehobby.pl/zdjecia/7/2/3/ ... 061_11.jpg and on the bow it also looks like metal deck with just transversal strips of metal not looking like brass bracing on linoleum: https://www.mojehobby.pl/zdjecia/6/2/3/ ... 061_10.jpg
This is a view of his appearance of Fubuki in 1941: https://fineartamerica.com/featured/jap ... estra.html
2. What was AA armament of Fubuki by the end of her service? Just 2 double 13mm guns on a platform next to 2nd funnel or there was more single barrels added later (like on one of renders of stern from above book)
3. Location of cutter at the stern. In Tamiya's model it is right next to the front torpedo tubes making it impossible to launch them in this direction. In other materials about the class I see this cutter moved slightly to the back, sometimes more to the front or even not present - where it should be in real in 1942?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:39 pm 
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Sorry, didn;t see this until now.

1). The WoW layout is more correct, particularly around # 1 turret. The brown decking is linoleum.

2) Most Japanese sources indicate that the Type I s entered the war with a twin 13mm mount in front of funnel #2. Please see the Shinonome photo below. (btw, Shinonome is in drydock to repair collision damage to her torpedo reload girders.) Fubuki's last dockyard visit was in April, 1942 for maintenance, so I think it unlikely that her AA fit changed before being sunk.

3) The davits for the small motor launch aft on the starboard side should be moved forward slightly in the Tamiya kit, so that #2 TT mount can rotate and fire. See the Shirayuki photo below. Side views show the boat to be raised OVER the height of the tubes, so there was clearance.

HTH.


Attachments:
Shinonome in drydock 1939 C.jpg
Shinonome in drydock 1939 C.jpg [ 339.82 KiB | Viewed 6966 times ]
Shirayuki March 1943  small.jpg
Shirayuki March 1943 small.jpg [ 230.83 KiB | Viewed 6966 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:30 am 
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Thanks for the response. So in your opinion Carlo Cestra's poster titled "Fubuki 1941" is not accurate? (Has pair of 13.2 twin guns, no motor boat on the port, wrong linoleum)
Another question: what about that voice tube running from msin superstructure all the way towards the aft superstructure? I see it missing on many later images of types 1 and 2 - did Fubuki have this tube until her end?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 10:10 am 
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Quote:
So in your opinion Carlo Cestra's poster titled "Fubuki 1941" is not accurate?


Not accurate, but there's more wrong with that illustration than just the AA and the linoleum. Wrong turret type, funnels too tall after reconstruction, rigid voice tubes removed. Around the start of the war, a more flexible type of voice tube was installed.

See modernized Type Is below


Attachments:
Fubuki after modernization.jpg
Fubuki after modernization.jpg [ 465.77 KiB | Viewed 6849 times ]
Murakumo & Fubuki, March 17, 1942, Yokosuka.jpg
Murakumo & Fubuki, March 17, 1942, Yokosuka.jpg [ 62.94 KiB | Viewed 6849 times ]
Murakumo 1939, Gakken v70.jpg
Murakumo 1939, Gakken v70.jpg [ 274.51 KiB | Viewed 6849 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:30 am 
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Thanks. So where these new voice tubes were located? Can't see them on the original photos and pictures of your Type 1 models from 1943 and 1944.
For the funnels, removing Tamiya caps as you did in Shirakumo should be enough to get them to their correct size?
I'd love to see closely how you made own grills - they seem pretty delicate and detailed on the old photos. Used just brass parts like railings or some wires for this?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 5:08 pm 
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Quote:
where these new voice tubes were located


Basically in the same location, though it's not really documented at all. I suspect that such tubes were not always rigged, at least until much later in the war. The photo below of the Type II Sagiri shows similar tubes over the TT mounts. But, here, they are not extended forward or aft to the main gun mounts. I couldn't even say whether or not a Fubuki 1942 would have used them.

Quote:
removing Tamiya caps as you did in Shirakumo should be enough to get them to their correct size?


I think so.

Quote:
sed just brass parts like railings or some wires for this?


Various companies make mesh brass in various sizes. K & R, Five Star, maybe Rainbow, among others. I will note that Tetra makes a comprehensive set for the Yamashita Hobby Type I Fubuki kit that has most of these type parts. Actually, the YH kit is pretty good, and more accurate than the Tamiya kit. Definitely less aggravation to make it look "right". Just a thought. :smallsmile:


Attachments:
Sagiri after modernization, off Tateyama, August 10, 1936.jpg
Sagiri after modernization, off Tateyama, August 10, 1936.jpg [ 384.46 KiB | Viewed 6759 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 5:23 am 
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Thanks, this last picture is really helpful, awesome quality.

In the meantime I found the complete story of Fubuki in the "Navygaming" magazine (from the publishers of World of Warships) issue 2/2016 and here are two interesting mentions of changes I found (auto translated from russian):

From the end of August 1933 to December 1933, in Sasebo, at the shipyard of the fleet, they carried out maintenance repairs on the hull and mechanisms, installed new type 91 torpedo firing devices, bulletproof, gas-protective casings on the TA, replaced the speaking tubes with telephone communications, replaced the 7.7-mm machine guns two (2x1) 13.2 mm anti-aircraft guns.

January 25, 1936-February 1937 - modernization in Yokosuka at the shipyard of the fleet: some structures of the bridge, ventilation casings and chimneys were dismantled, six canisters for spare torpedoes (only for the medium TA remained), most of the welded longitudinal connections of the set were replaced with riveted ones, the hull was reinforced at the bow, sheets of metal were laid over the welds on its bottom, and about 40 tons of ballast were placed in the holds, 2x2-25-mm anti-aircraft guns were installed, sonar type 93 mod. 1 and hydrophone type 92, two type 88 bombers were replaced by one type 94 (with a stock of 18 depth charges).

Do you think these are trustworthy?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:02 pm 
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Without knowing what sources they reference, it's hard to accept a couple of those details. Most of it appear correct. However:

Quote:
six canisters for spare torpedoes (only for the medium TA remained


I'm not sure exactly what they are trying to say, but all the Fubukis retained storage for nine reloads after modernization

Quote:
2x2-25-mm anti-aircraft guns were installed,


Not true. 25mm AA mounts were not added to any of the Fubukis until late 1942 - 1943.

My information comes from several sources - the Gran Prix Shuppan volume on IJN DDs, the Mechanism books, Japanese Wikipedia, Gakken volume #s 18 & 70 (which is solely about the Fubukis) and some other sources.

Some other Fubuki specific pics


Attachments:
Fubuki 1940.jpg
Fubuki 1940.jpg [ 339.97 KiB | Viewed 6692 times ]
Fubuki reconstruction 1936,  KMM DD vol.jpg
Fubuki reconstruction 1936, KMM DD vol.jpg [ 599.73 KiB | Viewed 6692 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:43 pm 
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Didn't see this one coming - Finemolds will be releasing a 1/350 Akebono 1944 and a 1/350 Sagiri pre-war fit in August.

Finemolds annoucement: https://www.finemolds.co.jp/2023SHS-new.html

Akebono on Hobbysearch Japan: https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10977189

Sagiri on Hobbysearch Japan: https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10977189

Very welcome, though I'd sure wish they would tool a Uranami, which would just take a few changes to the bridge and turrets. Which could then lead to a Type I. A Type III would need a few more tweaks.


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2023 12:50 pm 
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Dan K wrote:
Yep.

Both Rainbow and Five Star make 1/700 PE funnel grills. Or adapt one of the Tetra PE frets made for various YH Fubukis, I suppose.


The Tetra PE are made with a slightly thicker brass than are many others. I have used a few of the Steel PE on one ship, and they are a strange critter.

Fivestar Models makes several very complete PE sets for a variety of Fubuki outfits, and despite the lack of complete instructions (something he seems to be correcting) the sets are some of the best I have seen for 1/700. His addition of new 3D printed components is also good, if not some of the best in the market.

Damn! I want to get back into the studio to do some more work on things, now that it is functionally complete (I still have some elements to complete for adding minor storage, or “decorative” elements (like enclosing the desks and working surfaces with roll-tops so that I can safely allow the cats in when not there to supervise them).

Sorry, rambling…

MB

Edit:

Dan,

Do you know of anyone who does things like IJN directors and such that are in the Fighting configuration, with all the shutters open, and the internal bits visible?

Or is that a scratch-build project?

Since I have been “put back together” so to speak (restored function to my left arm, and dealt with the Osteomyelitis that kept being a potentially fatal problem), and the studio is workable again, I wanted to begin doing work like adding crew and details to the ships showing them in fighting trim for the Night Battles of 1942/43 (Were there ever any daylight Surface Actions in the Pacific??? I need to look into that).

MB

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1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


Last edited by MatthewB on Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2023 3:48 pm 
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I can't stand steel PE, and in this day and age, it seems unnecessary.

Rainbow makes five different sets of fire control directors in both 1/700 and 1/350 that can be posed with internals exposed. Resin and PE. However, they are for capitol ships, not DDs. Set V does have Type 94 directors, but these are only applicable to the Akizukis, if using them for a DD.

Quote:
ere there ever any daylight Surface Actions in the Pacific???



While David's post is correct for 1944, there were no daylight surface actions in the mid-'42 thru '43 time frame that I can think of, save for a couple of minor, post action skirmishes. In early 1942, I believe the 1st Battle of the Java Sea began in the late afternoon. The 2nd Battle of the Java Sea was definitely a daytime surface action.

Back to Feb, 1944, off Truk, Katori, Maikaze and Nowaki faced off against part of Task Force 50.9 (Iowa, New Jersey, Minneapolis, New Orleans, and 4 DDs) during daytime.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:28 am 
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Dan K wrote:
I can't stand steel PE, and in this day and age, it seems unnecessary.

Rainbow makes five different sets of fire control directors in both 1/700 and 1/350 that can be posed with internals exposed. Resin and PE. However, they are for capitol ships, not DDs. Set V does have Type 94 directors, but these are only applicable to the Akizukis, if using them for a DD.

Quote:
ere there ever any daylight Surface Actions in the Pacific???



While David's post is correct for 1944, there were no daylight surface actions in the mid-'42 thru '43 time frame that I can think of, save for a couple of minor, post action skirmishes. In early 1942, I believe the 1st Battle of the Java Sea began in the late afternoon. The 2nd Battle of the Java Sea was definitely a daytime surface action.

Back to Feb, 1944, off Truk, Katori, Maikaze and Nowaki faced off against part of Task Force 50.9 (Iowa, New Jersey, Minneapolis, New Orleans, and 4 DDs) during daytime.


O.O

A Light Cruiser and some Destroyers faced off against two of the most powerful BBs to exist, two of the most powerful CAs, and some of our better DDs???!!!

In having just read about this, it seems that only Iowa and the two Cruisers really “did” anything, in the former sinking Katori, and the latter sinking Nowaki and Maikaze (It seems “New Jersey” threw some weight at Maikaze as well… And aided in sinking the Akagi Maru they were supposed to be escorting … other accounts credit this to Iowa???).

Several of the accounts cite Spruance as ordering the Surface Action, when the ships could have been easily finished off by Aircraft.

Edit:

The Rainbow 1/700 Directors (BB, CA, or not) with the shutters that can be posed “open,” do they also make the “internals” that would be exposed?

I have found a huge number of 1/700 IJN “Crew” that are 3D printed that would function as the operators (most bending down to look through the eyepieces of Rangefinders, or Fire Control Computers)…

But what is up there in the directors? I know the Sokutekiban tends to be mounted separately from the Director, which I see in some cases the Hoiban is located, but it seems that more than one thing is up there, given that the two wing stations in most of these directors would not be close enough to the given stations of the Hoiban as given in the Lacroix & Wells book… But then I am just getting around to looking into what they stuffed inside their copious lookouts, director, rangefinder, and other stations.

And, what would be going-on at the huge number of Binoculars and spotters that tend to exist with the Japanese? I assume these stayed manned, even at General Quarters/Action Stations?

I see that Fivestar Models has some stuff that might be in a director or Lookout Post (Or the Sokutekiban station above or below the Director, depending upon ship)…

But it would be nice to see a more complete list (I think Lacroix & Wells describe the directors for the cruisers, and I recall some line-drawings of the plan and stations)….

If you might know of where to find such a list or diagrams, please???




MB

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OMG LOOK! A signature

Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:23 pm 
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Going off thread, but just to clarify, Nowaki was not sunk. In fact, she made a spectacular escape from a hail of shells bracketing her. Maikaze, and possibly, Katori, launched their torpedoes before being sunk. And, their aim was very good. According to Adm. Frederick C. Sherman, aircraft from his task force had been ordered to only orbit overhead. Apparently, the torpedoes were seen by a couple of F6Fs that managed to alert the BBs just in time to turn. Torpedoes just passed through New Jersey's wake. Otherwise.........

None of the 1/700 directors has internals. L & W gives some of the better listings. I suppose there might be a list in one of the Navtech documents.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 12:48 am 
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A couple of new Fubukis from Fine Molds' 1/350 series:

Sagiri October 1941: https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10977192

Akebono late war: https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10977189

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 12:04 pm 
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That makes six different kits of the Type IIs, including immediately pre-war (Shikinami), early war (Ayanami, Sagiri), mid-war (Amagiri), and late war (Akebono, Ushio). Interestingly enough, Fine Molds provides the unique compass bridge deck (aka navigation or command deck) facing and roof that applied to the subgroup that included Amagiri, Asagiri, Sagiri, and Yugiri. This facing is slighly angular, whereas the other ships had a smooth, rounded facing.

Now, if they would only branch off into the Type Is and IIIs....


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2023 1:04 pm 
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Dan K wrote:
Sorry, didn;t see this until now.

1). The WoW layout is more correct, particularly around # 1 turret. The brown decking is linoleum.

2) Most Japanese sources indicate that the Type I s entered the war with a twin 13mm mount in front of funnel #2. Please see the Shinonome photo below. (btw, Shinonome is in drydock to repair collision damage to her torpedo reload girders.) Fubuki's last dockyard visit was in April, 1942 for maintenance, so I think it unlikely that her AA fit changed before being sunk.

3) The davits for the small motor launch aft on the starboard side should be moved forward slightly in the Tamiya kit, so that #2 TT mount can rotate and fire. See the Shirayuki photo below. Side views show the boat to be raised OVER the height of the tubes, so there was clearance.

HTH.


I've got a couple of Yamashita Fubuki's and was wondering about those twin AA guns. Was it the same on other Japanese destroyers, or did they have single 13.2 guns?

thanks
Mike


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