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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:52 pm 
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You are right, the onboard portside photo is not of a destroyer at all.

It is in fact the Shoreham class sloop HMS Weston in 1940. The photo is in the Imperial War Museum archive and is negative number A1949. Weston wore this striped scheme early in the war, but unfortunately the only pictures I have found of her at this time are on board shots with glimpses of the camouflage. The Shorehams had a small searchlight tower, and early in the war still had the mainmast and the quadruple 0.5" mount which you can just see ahead of the galley chimneys.

Don


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:08 am 
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Oh dear. So the stock of reliable pictures of Firedrake gets less and less!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:24 pm 
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A while back it was suggested here that at the time of the Dunkirk evacuations in May/June 1940 HMS Codrington wore a scheme such as that worn by HMS Hurricane in 1940, a three-tone dazzle-patterned affair. In fact she was in a much weathered dark/Home Fleet grey overall (which she had started the war with) and with a large solid white false bow wave in the Harwich style (but no false stern wave). Her foremast was white from just below the crows nest upwards. Her forward funnel was much lightened by salt encrustation especially lower down, and had the standard leader band at the top. On her aft funnel was the (single) flotilla band of the Dover Flotilla (B Class) of the time. This was also her scheme when sunk in July 1940.

(At the time of Dunkirk she had two scrambling nets amidships dangling to the waterline.)


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 Post subject: ORP Garland
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:00 am 
Hello,

Building the paper 1/200 ORP Garland, I cannot figure out what the objects on deck in front of the B gun and
one deck lower on the side.
Anyone any idea ? Would be appreciated.

Koen.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:03 pm 
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This does not appear a popular topic these days, but here goes.

I am looking for photographs of HMS Imperial (penant number D09), from 1941 when she was in the Mediterranean. There are numerous sources of her in 507C Mediterranean Grey with red funnel bands from the pre-war years, but I'd really like to know what she looked like when sunk. A relative was on her at this time, hence the particular interest in the time period.

Thanks for reading.

Jamie

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http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=167151


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:37 am 
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Just a small note that some very extensive drawings of HMS Garland can be found at the Dutch national archives under 'Torpedobootjagers' . Hr Ms Marnix was HMS Garland late in her career.
http://www.gahetna.nl/collectie/archief ... 2:1.c03:14.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:49 am 
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Nothing here for over a year, but now that IBG has broken the ice with two out of a projected six G-H-I destroyers, can we start this going again?

I've put a post of impressions of the first two in the Reviews forum. My question here is whether IBG is correct to give quadruple tubes with the Ithuriel? She was a turkish-contract I class. As an RN I she would have had quintuples, with or maybe without the centre tube, and maybe only the forward set fitted. Ithuriel definitely had two sets, no 3 inch, but all the photos I can find are side-on and don't show anything helpful.

Oh, if you are an A-I fan, you need several of these.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:04 pm 
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IBG is correct: Ithuriel had two sets of quadruple TTs


Attachments:
Ithuriel - Copy.jpg
Ithuriel - Copy.jpg [ 214.35 KiB | Viewed 880 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:50 pm 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-class_destroyer


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:11 am 
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Thanks guys. That information is not in the Les Brown Shipcraft book nor in March's British Destroyers. The wiki I use as a suggestion, the photo is proof. The Ithuriel entry in wikipedia has quins in the text and quads in the data panel.

Now, if I wanted to go back to the A or B class, say Bulldog at the U-110 sinking, what do I need to do? Just the weapon fit and maybe the bridge? So many choices, so little time.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:10 am 
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I'm looking to build a model of Hero. As far as I can tell, unique among the G/H Class, Hero and Hereward, had a truncated triangular prism shape front to the bridge, much like the Brazilian H-Class. I have the builder's plans of Glowworm in Robert's British Warships of the Second World War and the Lambert plans for Harvester in British Naval Weapons of World War Two. Is it safe to transpose the bridge structure from Harvester to Glowworm to create Hero?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:16 am 
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PetrOs Modellbau
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I am considering to make HMS Ilex during Matapan, what would be her fit? I am going to mix and match IBG kits of Ithuriel, Garland and Glowworm. Can I just take Ithuriel kit, substitute tubes with 5x ones from Glowworm, substitute x deck also from Glowworm, and place 0.5 quads in between the funnels? Would she have small or large pockets on her front superstructure? Would the rear mast be in place, reduced or missing at all? What would be the paint job?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:08 am 
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ILEX had CP XVIII 4.7" mountings, which did not need the shallow well in the deck below the mountings needed for the mountings fitted in the "E", "F" and "G" classes - the deck underneath should therefore be flush, and not as represented in the moulding for GLOWWORM's "X" gundeck.

There is an undated photo at https://www.maritimequest.com/misc_page ... ex_d61.jpg, taken after ILEX arrived in Alexandria, which may be of some help. It shows a shorter after funnel (about seven feet removed to reduce topweight) but otherwise appears "as built", except that I cannot see the TSDS winches or davits. I suspect this photo was taken in 1940, so by Matapan she may well have had further modifications.

If "pockets" refers to the bridge wings, then Parts G3, PE38 and PE39 appear to be the best represenation of ILEX's bridge wings.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:42 pm 
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PetrOs Modellbau
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Thanks! Looking at naval history site, she had no yard or repair jobs listed between January 40 and Matapan. For all other ships I am looking for installation of 20mms or radar was usually at least a week in the yard to install platforms/pedestals. So I assume she had none 20mm by the time. Next repair was listed on 24th May 1941.

I guess I would keep her colors as in the photo - any repaint or major modification would coincide with a yard time. She seems to be 507C overall? She was the leader for the 2nd DF at Matapan, so black funnel tops, 2 red bands?

She seems to have no splinter shields around her guns.

I think the rear superstructure will be cut around a bit - Ithuriel one has the 20mm tubs, and Gloworm the recess. So cut after the round part and glue ;)

Shorter funnel is from Ithuriel kit.

Searchlight stand from Gloworm kit. Same with the AA stand between the funnels.

And from the remains, I could build another one later ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:45 pm 
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A poor but interesting image worth consideration.
This image is reported to have been taken from Perth approx. April/May 41, it appeared some time back on the NHSA (Australia) F.B. site and is incorrectly and ridiculously labelled as Stuart.
It is an I class and after much discussion myself and Dick had come to the conclusion that this may in fact be Ilex, 2nd flotilla bands with a possible leader band on forward funnel, no pennant present and wearing a pattern.
At the battle of Cape Matapan she would have been in a disruptive scheme, Not 507C overall, your challenge is to find an image of her in that scheme.


Attachments:
HMS ILEX, April,May 41.jpg
HMS ILEX, April,May 41.jpg [ 214.69 KiB | Viewed 187 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:00 am 
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The image posted by Brett has reminded me of another small detail; the galley exhaust on the "H" and "I" classes was external, running diagonally up and aft around the starboard side of the forefunnel from the galley at the after end of the foc's'le before running nearly vertically up the after side of the funnel (thinks: "Have to amend my Ithuriel model" :()


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:11 am 
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PetrOs Modellbau
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Brett Morrow wrote:
A poor but interesting image worth consideration.
This image is reported to have been taken from Perth approx. April/May 41, it appeared some time back on the NHSA (Australia) F.B. site and is incorrectly and ridiculously labelled as Stuart.
It is an I class and after much discussion myself and Dick had come to the conclusion that this may in fact be Ilex, 2nd flotilla bands with a possible leader band on forward funnel, no pennant present and wearing a pattern.
At the battle of Cape Matapan she would have been in a disruptive scheme, Not 507C overall, your challenge is to find an image of her in that scheme.


It is very likely her. And many details are readable there - no extra 20mms, cut down rear mast with a stub on searchlight... Seems to have no radars. Camo also well readable.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:18 am 
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PetrOs wrote:
... It is very likely her. And many details are readable there - no extra 20mms, cut down rear mast with a stub on searchlight... Seems to have no radars. Camo also well readable.

Also no TSDS davits, and (perhaps) no TSDS winches either, plus splinter shields at the deck-edge outboard of "Y" 4.7" mounting.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:45 am 
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I think TSDS was still fitted on llex.

The starboard broadside photo from Maritimequest is of too poor a quality to say whether or not it is fitted at that time. That photo would date to late-May/June/July 1940 before the Med Fleet started to paint to improvised camouflage designs at Alexandria from 5th August 1940 onwards. However I have a photo of Ilex at Alexandria in her first ‘Alexandria’ scheme very clearly showing TSDS gear still in place:
Attachment:
Ilex 1940 Alexandria TSDS winch - Copy.jpg
Ilex 1940 Alexandria TSDS winch - Copy.jpg [ 4.83 KiB | Viewed 131 times ]
Attachment:
Ilex 1940 Alexandria TSDS gear at stern davits folded down- Copy.jpg
Ilex 1940 Alexandria TSDS gear at stern davits folded down- Copy.jpg [ 6.39 KiB | Viewed 131 times ]


Note the angle of the top of the stowed paravane and the mounting right at the stern with its overhanging brackets and their dangling snatch blocks through which the sweeping wires were fed.

In Brett’s 1941 photo I believe that at the stern you can see the distinctive angled silhouette formed by the top of a stowed paravane plus the mounting right at the stern and one of its aft projecting brackets.

The (lack of) visibility of the paravane davits is not a reliable guide as they could be folded down (Icarus overhead 19 Oct 1942):
Attachment:
Icarus 1942 10 19  TSDS davits folded down a - Copy.jpg
Icarus 1942 10 19 TSDS davits folded down a - Copy.jpg [ 188.74 KiB | Viewed 131 times ]


Once folded down between the paravanes the davits become more-or-less invisible in low-angle views as this photo of Icarus 19 Oct 1942, taken by the same PR sortie as the overhead view, demonstrates:
Attachment:
Icarus 1942 10 19 TSDS davits folded down b - Copy.jpg
Icarus 1942 10 19 TSDS davits folded down b - Copy.jpg [ 10.99 KiB | Viewed 131 times ]



Damaged in June 1941 Ilex slowly made her way to Charleston to be repaired. When she re-emerged in September 1942 she still had TSDS fitted. In this photo the paravane davits are upright.
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item ... /205167531

The written record supports this. Whilst the half-yearly CB 01815B (Particulars of War Vessels and Aircraft) may not be a useful guide to the exact dates of modifications or to local improvisations, as a record of the situation regarding major fittings/equipment at different points in time it normally gets there in the end. It records Ilex as fitted with TSDS throughout this period.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:54 am 
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Thanks Dick - I hadn't realised the davits could be folded down.


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