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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:17 am 
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So would I. Where/by whom was the idea of a camouflage pattern on Glowworm first suggested?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:30 am 
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The first I have seen is this new camouflage artwork in Seaforth's Shipcraft AtoI & Tribal class book attributed to a George Richardson.
LB

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:18 am 
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Ah, well we need hard evidence to support that particular piece of artwork.

Best wishes.


Last edited by dick on Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:30 pm 
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Great pic of the Glowworm Dick. :big_grin: Thank you for sharing it with us. :wave_1:




Bob Pink.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:35 pm 
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Yes a nice photo, totally inconclusive in terms of a camouflage scheme for anyone with two or even one partially functioning eye in a head of course for obvious reasons.

Mike

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:21 am 
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Laurence,

Thinking further about it.

Referring to the illustration on page 44 you wrote:

"I'd be interested to see where this 'evidence' for Glowworm in camouflage is.
Is it implied she wore it only in the winter of 1939/40 and then repainted? "

According to ar's book some G's wore a patterned camouflage at that time. Given her TROM, the opportunity for Glowworm to repaint out of a patterned scheme prior to the Norwegian Campaign would have been during her period under repair 25th February - 20th March 1940. Having been in a collision resulting is serious structural damage a repaint would be likely.

Mike,

Sorry, you've lost me there old boy. What am I missing?

Cheers


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:26 am 
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MichelB wrote:
Laurence, regarding the 'peculiar' photo of Glowworm, I think we're looking at pre-WWI Torpedoboat No 7, with a turtleback bow and an 'flying' gun platform, with tarps covering the sides of the bridge structure. Jane's lists her as Thornycroft Torpedoboat no 7, originally called Glow-worm. Built 1906.


Yup, it's a Cricket class coastal destroyer. With bows intact.

Rob

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:10 am 
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I recently acquired from Evil-Bay a linen print of an HMS Excellent "Instructional Diagram" dated 28/10/1935 entitled "Outline of "Defender Class" showing Lay Out of Fire Control Installation and Communications".

This merely shows diagramatically the position of gunnery instruments and telephones and voice tubes, etc.....

The interesting thing is that it shows a 3" H.A. gun on the platform between the funnels, with the quadruple Vickers 0.5" guns either side of the bridge in line with the DCT and on the same level as "B" mount.


It makes no note of it being "proposed", or "theoretical" or anything else.

Does anyone know if any "D"-class destroyer was ever fitted like this or any plans for this ? (I can't find any reference).

Also, it is interesting that when 12-pounder/3-inch AA guns were fitted during WW2 they were fitted in lieu of the rear TT-tubes rather than on the between funnels platform. I presume because of AA arcs. Does anyone have more info ?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:23 am 
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Dear Phil,

I think you will find that is essentially how they were ...although some may have had a 2 pdr either side of the bridge to start with at least eg Daring. I have not researched this aspect of this class in any detail.

Here is Defender sinking with guns as you describe...

Best wishes


Attachments:
Defender.jpg
Defender.jpg [ 56.11 KiB | Viewed 759 times ]


Last edited by dick on Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:22 pm 
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I'm going to go and get my eyes tested.

Thanks.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:46 pm 
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You can see both the Quad Vickers on the bridge and the 3'' between the funnels. Curious feature this last one taking into account the limited arcs of fire for the gun.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:48 am 
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Here is a picture of Daring. Gun between funnels is clearer to see and it looks to me like a single 2pdr beside the bridge.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:24 am 
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:wave_1:
Personally, I have a crack for Is, and in my wish list there's a 1/100 or 1/200 HMS Ithuriel (that's the name I like most, given my passion for John Milton :worship_1: ). I foresee to start from JSC's paper model of HMS Glowworm, that should at least provide the hull framing. I know that my turkish "angel" was somehow different from the standard Is, but so far I still haven't found enough infos to plan a serious building project, I only have one photo showing that she had a raised bandstand with some kind of AA instead of the aft TT, but no drawings :huh:
Could somebody tell me if, when Ithuriel was commissioned, she was in the same configuration of the other Is? :cry:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:55 pm 
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http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprint ... -uk/14932/


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:07 pm 
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Hi Dick:


Thanks for the link. :thumbs_up_1:



Bob Pink.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:02 pm 
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dick wrote:
http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/ships/destroyers-uk/14932/


Thank you :thumbs_up_1: Thanks to that drawing, I realized that the aft TTs were still there, the bandstand I saw was just on the sides of the aft superstructure :smallsmile:
This is the photo to which I referred; is it possible that the camouflage scheme was specular on both sides?

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1197/scansione0003ch5.jpg

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:44 am 
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Secundo,

The link to your photo seems to be broken/wrong?

Can you try posting your photo here (at the "Upload attachment" tab below).

Best wishes


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:18 am 
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:Oops_1: Sorry, here it is (I had no problem with the link so I thought it would be the same for everybody)
The caption doesn't specify when this photo was taken, but I suppose it might have been near the end of her career, as she bears the two-tone camouflage


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:37 am 
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Here is the only other picture of Ithuriel that I have found.

Alan Raven in his RN camouflage Vol 2 says (page 5) that this is a three colour scheme of MS2, MS4 & MS4a. If you look closely at your picture you can see three tones on the hull. His book shows a drawing of the starboard camouflage as a mirror image of this pattern on the port side.

Cheers


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:11 am 
The two photos shown were taken in October 42 upon completion of repairs.
The ship commissioned in a different configeration; that is, with slightly taller funnels and a mainmast of some height. Was also painted in what appears to be an Alexandria type camouflage.
A little later, the ship had a refit; funnels cut down and an Admiralty camouflage pattern applied.
Upon repairs in October, a different (second) Admiralty camouflage painted up as shown in the views posted.

dick wrote:
Here is the only other picture of Ithuriel that I have found.

Alan Raven in his RN camouflage Vol 2 says (page 5) that this is a three colour scheme of MS2, MS4 & MS4a. If you look closely at your picture you can see three tones on the hull. His book shows a drawing of the starboard camouflage as a mirror image of this pattern on the port side.

Cheers


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