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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:08 am 
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Thank you very much for your answers, now things are finally getting clear :thumbs_up_1:
I think I will begin with a small scale model to have a better approach to the subject; I would have made a complete mess without your help :smallsmile:

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:41 pm 
Another ITHURIEL photo is at http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum%20Shi ... 05-02.html


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:48 pm 
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Tim Stoneman wrote:


Thanks, that lateral wiew is much welcome as now I can precisely figure out the camouflage scheme (thinking that I started from being convinced that there were only two tones... :doh_1: )

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:29 pm 
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Dear Secondo,

Depending upon how much information and accuracy you desire, there is a general arrangement 'as fitted' plan of Intrepid over 2 pages in March's book British Destroyers 1892-1953 which could be useful for you. This book is expensive to obtain, so perhaps your local library in Italy can order a copy for you through inter-library loan.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:08 pm 
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Laurence Batchelor wrote:
Dear Secondo,

Depending upon how much information and accuracy you desire, there is a general arrangement 'as fitted' plan of Intrepid over 2 pages in March's book British Destroyers 1892-1953 which could be useful for you. This book is expensive to obtain, so perhaps your local library in Italy can order a copy for you through inter-library loan.

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LB


Yes, I got to know, by the means of another forum, a naval historian which very kindly gave me a pdf with that (really excellent, let me say) plan. Withouth that I would have never considered this subject.
Anyway, thank you for the info :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:26 am 
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Hello,

a short while ago I have started building WEMs 1/350 HMS Glowworm. After cleaning the main parts and looking for some references I have taken a closer look to this interesting thread about the A- I class destroyers.
Attachment:
001.jpg
001.jpg [ 86.45 KiB | Viewed 1329 times ]

Laurence, many thanks for the information about the color scheme with dark grey hull and light upperworks and the aft funnel band on HMS Glowworm in March – April 1940. I will build her in that color scheme at the time of her loss in April 1940.

The WEM kit is nice but lacks some detail, especially the torpedo tubes are only basic. I found some information on HMCS Heida’s web page: http://hmcshaida.ca/torptube.html
According to Shipcraft No. 11 “British Destroyers A-I and Tribal Class” the G-class Destroyers were also fitted with 21 inch Mk. IX mountings as Heida was.

Due to the photo of Heidas quadruple mounting I add some 50 plastic and brass parts on Glowworms quintuple mounting.
Attachment:
003.jpg
003.jpg [ 77.01 KiB | Viewed 1343 times ]

Also I did some extra work on the 0.5 inch Vickers MG.
Attachment:
004.jpg
004.jpg [ 77.61 KiB | Viewed 1328 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:43 am 
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Christian Bruer wrote:
Laurence, many thanks for the information about the color scheme with dark grey hull and light upperworks and the aft funnel band on HMS Glowworm in March – April 1940. I will build her in that color scheme at the time of her loss in April 1940.


Christian
Are you convinced about that colour scheme? I'm not. A grainy photo at a distance in heavy seas with plenty of smoke around and a ship that had been at sea for some time, and no other documented evidence, I think a pinch of salt is needed

Mike

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:24 pm 
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mike mccabe wrote:
Christian
Are you convinced about that colour scheme? I'm not. A grainy photo at a distance in heavy seas with plenty of smoke around and a ship that had been at sea for some time, and no other documented evidence, I think a pinch of salt is needed

Mike


Hi Mike,

No I’m not absolutely convinced about that scheme. As you mentioned, there is no other photo than this wartime photo. The darker hull can also be a shadow effect or some dirt from salt water or a combination of both. Well, there are only pre war photos showing HMS Glowworm in light grey and no wartime photo that evidenced the one or other color scheme.

Do you know if there is any other Destroyer at that early war time period painted dark and light grey? If yes it could be possible that Glowworm wore this scheme too, if not it is improbable that just and only Glowworm wore that scheme.
Whatever, a dark grey hull and light upperworks are more attractive than light grey over all – my point of view.

According to this discussion some of my aeroplane building modeling friends are wondering about us ship modelers, because they can’t believe that we are talking also about paints and color schemes like they did :heh:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:42 pm 
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Mike,

If you are "not convinced" that Glowworm was in dark hull/light upperworks when sunk, please suggest what scheme you think she was in along with your supporting evidence.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:53 pm 
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Christian,

You asked:

" Do you know if there is any other Destroyer at that early war time period painted dark and light grey? If yes it could be possible that Glowworm wore this scheme too, if not it is improbable that just and only Glowworm wore that scheme. "

Here is a picture of Fury during the Norwegian Campaign (dated 20th April 1940 but dates on photos at the IWM are often when received by the Admiralty and the pictures themselves were actually taken a bit earlier).


Attachments:
Fury a 20 April 1940.jpg
Fury a 20 April 1940.jpg [ 17.45 KiB | Viewed 2139 times ]


Last edited by dick on Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:20 pm 
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Hi Dick,

thank you very much for the information and for sharing the photo. Ther is not a wide difference in the grey shades on HMS Fury, but it seems to me it is 507C/507B?!
If there is no photo available showing Glowworm in the on or other color scheme at around 1939/1940, I believe it is a little bit guess work and own preference. I like that 507C/507B scheme and if there is no more information I will use it on my model!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:20 pm 
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Lovely work Christian.

In regards to Glowworm's paint scheme at the time of her loss: I have a whole series of photos taken of Glowworm's last action through Hipper's range-finder and all show Dark hull light upperworks, there is not just the one photo depicted on a previous page. Unfortunately the external hard drive which contains my entire photo database is currently with a data recovery company in London as it failed after only 7-months old. It's a shame the 5-year warranty doesn't cover ones data! Thus I cannot post them at present. If no one else has them and is willing to post them, then when I get the photos back I will post them here.

Furthermore the Glowworm website has on it a photo supposedly of her in May 1939 at Alexandria in a dark hull scheme (upperworks not visible) which I pasted onto page 1 of this thread and there is another of her in dry dock with bow damage and again the hull is dark grey. These two photos don't preclude her being repainted later on, but they at least give us a reference point as to how she was painted shortly before war began.

I have found NO evidence to suggest she was painted in the scheme depicted in the artwork in the Shipcraft AtoI and Tribals book. If the author of the book and the chap who did the artwork can come forward and suggest what evidence they based their artwork on (perhaps a photograph no one else has seen?) I'll happily go along with it. I've spoken to numerous people also to ask their opinion's on Glowworm's camouflage as sunk. They all concurred stating all AVAILABLE evidence points to dark hull light upperworks with her funnel band still in place.

Until clear evidence to the contrary emerges, surely it makes sense to stick with our best interpretation on the evidence available?
I'm happy as always to be proved wrong by anyone willing to back up their opinions with some sort of clear evidence.
Cheers
LB

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:32 pm 
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Hi Laurence,

thank you for your compliment about my work!

I know the photos through Hippers rangefinder but only in a poor quality. Researching for more information I found this, maybe it is interesting too:
http://www.naval-history.net/WW2Ships-Glowworm.htm

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:56 pm 
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Dear Christian,

Those are different shots to the ones I have.
In the series I mentioned there is one in particular where the majority of Glowworm's stb. hull can be made out very much broadside on to the camera.

Dear Dick,

According to the Brown, D. (ed.) (2004) Naval Operations of the Campaign in Norway April-June 1940 [which is in fact a revamped and tweaked Admiralty Naval Staff History BR1736(46) Battle Summary No.17 freely available at the PRO] the same Fury illustration is given in there as Figure 5 and the date suggested is either the 20th or 21st April 1940 (IWM states 20th only).

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:58 pm 
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Dear Christian,

Fascinating pictures - thanks for posting the link.

Yes, my interpretation is a light and a medium grey (507C/507B) on Glowworm and Fury.

Best wishes.


Last edited by dick on Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:31 pm 
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Christian Bruer wrote:
Hi Dick,

thank you very much for the information and for sharing the photo. Ther is not a wide difference in the grey shades on HMS Fury, but it seems to me it is 507C/507B?!
If there is no photo available showing Glowworm in the on or other color scheme at around 1939/1940, I believe it is a little bit guess work and own preference. I like that 507C/507B scheme and if there is no more information I will use it on my model!


Christian,
I say go with your own preference, use the evidence of your own eyes and opinion, build the best model you can.

Mike

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:33 pm 
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Are both smokestacks on the E Class similar to the H class of ships?



Bob Pink.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:04 pm 
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Quincy wrote:
Are both smokestacks on the E Class similar to the H class of ships?


Hi Bob,

I don't know but maybe you found an answer for your own comparing some photos of E and H class destroyers:
http://www.navyphotos.co.uk/index12.htm

Here you found photos of Echo, Electra, Escapade, Exmouth and Express as well as Hardy, Hero, Hesperus, Highlander and Hunter.

MAybe that helps!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:14 pm 
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Hi Christian:


The E Class funnels are a little to tall and differ at the base.


Sorry for the late reponse.


Bob Pink.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:15 pm 
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I'm going to tackle Electra using the Tamiya 1/700 E Class. What do many of you do with the portholes? Drill them out? Paint them?


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