The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:14 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2094 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93 ... 105  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:41 pm
Posts: 2927
Location: Mocksville, NC
Steven,

Glad to have helped you on this! The blocks are also doubles, so this is a win-win, right?? I also liked Rick's photo of Benson-Gleaves whaleboat - something about the older b/w photos that just can't be duplicated, clarity maybe???

Happy Modeling!

Hank

ps- one of my upcoming projects will be a 1:144 Revell FLETCHER converted to a 1966-67 era USS STODDARD (DD-566).

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:03 pm
Posts: 3
I am modeling a Fletcher Class destroyer USS KIDD . My plans (Blue Jacket) show a "knob" on the aft part of the roof of turret 51 and 55. The plans are not clear as to what this is. Any help would be appreciated.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 3825
Irv,

I'm unsure of the time frame you are modeling USS KIDD and what feature you are seeing, but it sounds like you are referring to the hood over Gun Captain's hatch on the 5-in 51 and 55 gun mounts. The hood protected the Gun Captain from the blast of the superimposed 5-in gun mount. Also, in front of the Gun Captain's hatch was a "local control" gun sight used to aim the gun when needed. Often was used in close support of troops during an island assault.

Attachment:
zDD661x22crop-8Feb45.jpg
zDD661x22crop-8Feb45.jpg [ 161.96 KiB | Viewed 4393 times ]


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:03 pm
Posts: 3
First thank you for your response as I am a first timer here on this forum. I had not thought of the time frame but my plans show only one set of torpedo tubes. Many of the photos I see show 2 sets. My plans show a pair of 40mm (Quad) mounts and a director tower in that location between the stacks. I am having trouble seeing the structures you are referring to in the photo you sent. There is a lot of Structure showing and I am still trying to separate the various components...Irv


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:00 pm
Posts: 12138
Location: Ottawa, Canada
I've circled the hood here:


Attachments:
zDD661x22crop-8Feb45.jpg
zDD661x22crop-8Feb45.jpg [ 152.47 KiB | Viewed 4354 times ]

_________________
De quoi s'agit-il?
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:03 pm
Posts: 3
GOT IT !!! Thanks for the clarification ! Irv


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 3825
Irv,

The configuration you are describing is called the Anti-Kamikaze Mod. This was the configuration that USS KIDD was modified to during the repairs to her battle damage during the summer of 1945. The USS KIDD museum people are trying to return her to this configuration from her 1950's configuration.

Here is a closer view of a "typical" Gun Captain's Hatch and Hood. The only difference with the Gun Captain's Hatch and Hood on USS KIDD, is that KIDD had a "lefty" and not a "righty" on 51 mount. AKA the hatch was on the left side of the mount looking from the rear.


Attachments:
zDD596x4crop-11Feb45.jpg
zDD596x4crop-11Feb45.jpg [ 150.08 KiB | Viewed 4321 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:13 pm
Posts: 7
I'm looking to make a 1/700 version of the USS Kidd using the USS Cushing kit from Tamiya. Most of the changes should be pretty simple, but the "anti-kamikaze" modification is going to be a bit challenging for me to scratch build. Is anyone aware of a resin or 3d printed conversion kit in 1/700? Model Monkey has a great one in 1/350, but not in 1/700. I even DM asked him if he could scale it down and unfortunately he cannot. Any ideas?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:29 pm
Posts: 1949
The Trumpeter/Pit Road Sullivans kit is the config you want, if you can find one. If you don't want to build that kit, cannibalize one for the parts you need for your Tamiya kit. (But, as I said, you have to find one.)
https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10059409


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 3825
Dick, pretty much summed up the easy path. You could try Googling "1/700 scale USS THE SULLIVANS kit" and find that there are sources for the Trumpeter kit out there on Amazon, E-Bay, etc. Maybe even at Model shows in the vendor area, or local swap meets. Years ago Samek made a NICE 1/700 USS THE SULLIVANS kit in the Anti-Kamikaze configurations. But, it has been out of production for years.

Getting the Trumpeter kit would be the easiest path. You could use the Tamiya kit to model USS KIDD as she appeared BEFORE she was hit by Kamikazes.

Personally, in 1/700 scale I don't think scratch building would be that hard. Given that the Tamiya CUSHING kit was made with flexibility for multiple versions of FLETCHERS, you won't have to do much (if any) "removal surgery". Making wing deck extensions for the quad 40-mm mounts can be done and use the clipping room from the Tamiya kit's waist twin 40-mm mounts. You could make bulwarks for the quad 40-mm mounts, or if you have some quad 40-mm "tubs" in your spare parts box, you may be able to modify those for the bulwarks. Making a small director deckhouse shouldn't be too difficult either. Trimming the deck edge bulwarks to fit the quad 40-mm clipping rooms wouldn't be difficult.

Oh, also you will need six twin 20-mm gun mounts (two per side at the waist and two on the fantail) and need to modify the fantail "tub" for just two twin 20-mm mounts.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:15 pm 
Offline
Model Monkey
Model Monkey

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 3952
Location: USA
It took some serious mental gymnastics, but yes, a set of late-war anti-Kamikaze mods is now available in 1/700 scale (AA deck house plus midships quad Bofors tubs).

Link: http://shpws.me/QzrI


Cheers!


Attachments:
1-700 Fletcher class late-war Anti-Kamikaze Mods.jpg
1-700 Fletcher class late-war Anti-Kamikaze Mods.jpg [ 50.37 KiB | Viewed 3883 times ]

_________________
Have fun, Monkey around.™

-Steve L.

Complete catalog: - https://www.model-monkey.com/
Follow Model Monkey® on Facebook: - https://www.facebook.com/modelmonkeybookandhobby
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:13 pm
Posts: 7
Thanks again Model Monkey! Your work was a huge help.

On a somewhat unrelated note, there are two pieces of equipment that I'd like help identifying (that I've noticed in many Fletcher-class photos).

1) The device between the aft torpedo mount and turret 53. It usually sits on the main deck level.

2) The cylinders stacked on the fantail between the depth charge racks. They're longer and narrower than depth charges and are oriented in line with the ship (the opposite of the depth charges).


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:41 pm
Posts: 2927
Location: Mocksville, NC
Raging Bull wrote:
Quote:
On a somewhat unrelated note, there are two pieces of equipment that I'd like help identifying (that I've noticed in many Fletcher-class photos).

1) The device between the aft torpedo mount and turret 53. It usually sits on the main deck level.

2) The cylinders stacked on the fantail between the depth charge racks. They're longer and narrower than depth charges and are oriented in line with the ship (the opposite of the depth charges).


Answers:

1) (you mean the item that looks like a "T"?) That is the torpedo crane used for loading/unloading the after torpedo tubes.

2) Those are quad smoke generator skids for "making smoke" during battle maneuvers - such as "zig-zag" steaming or attempting to avoid surface enemy visual detection, etc.

Hope this answers your questions.

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:13 pm
Posts: 7
Thanks for the quick reply!

1) Not the torpedo crane, there's another device of some kind that sits between the deck houses on the centerline, just aft of the aft torpedo mount.

2) Smoke generators are what I suspected, but I didn't want to assume so.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 3825
Sounds like you are asking about the 5-in gun practice loader.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:13 pm
Posts: 7
After a quick google, yep. It's the 5 inch gun practice loader. Thanks for the help!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:37 pm
Posts: 27
Hello, Everyone. First-time poster here.

I'm not currently building any models, but I do have a bunch of technical questions about Fletcher-class destroyers. After reading this epic thread in its entirety, I'm convinced that this is the best place to ask them on all the internet. So without further ado:

1. About a million pages ago, somebody quoted a sailor from the Nicholas saying that his ship briefly carried thirteen 20mm Oerlikon machine cannons, but that some of them had to be removed because their unrestricted arcs of fire made them a menace to ship and crew. As soon as I read that, I went poking around the web looking for pictures, but the closest thing I could find was a shot of another early Fletcher-- I want so say it was Chevalier-- carrying eleven: the original six, plus three on the fantail, one on the roof of the pilot house, and one on an 02-level platform attached to the front of the bridge. Nicholas didn't have such a platform, to the best of my knowledge, so at best, that image of Chevalier might account for the placement of ten of her Oerlikons. Does anyone know for sure where Nicholas squeezed in all those 20's?

2. As has been discussed at several points in this thread, a few of the earliest Fletchers delivered went to war with the quadruple 1.1" machine cannon of the original design as their medium AA weapon, instead of the twin 40mm Bofors that became the standard as built. But what about the rest of the original design's armament? Did any of the early ships ever have to make do with four .50-caliber machine guns as their light AA? Did any of them ever carry the laughably inadequate depth-charge battery envisioned in 1941?

3. At least four of the Fletchers converted to DDEs in 1949-1950 initially kept their forward set of torpedo tubes. Does anyone know if those trainable tubes were carried in addition to the four fixed tubes enclosed by the after deckhouse? Or was it expected at the beginning of the conversion program that the 21" antisubmarine homing torpedo would be compatible with the wartime Mk 14 and Mk 15 tubes, so that the DDEs got their fixed tubes only after the trainable ones were removed?

4. The earliest Fletcher DDEs had their K-guns moved forward until they were mostly hidden behind the spray bulwarks protecting the main deck just abaft the bridge, presumably to clear the way for the enclosed torpedo tubes. By the mid-60's, the K-guns were gone, and the ships had triple Mk 32 torpedo tubes between the funnels amidships. But what about in the interim? The DDEs seem like natural candidates for the catapult-launched homing torpedoes that preceded the Mk 32 system, but I've never seen a photo of one unambiguously carrying such weapons. Were they ever used by the Fletcher DDEs? And if so, where on the ships were they installed?

5. Does anyone know why O'Bannon, alone among the DDEs, never got her Mk 108 launcher for Weapon A, and instead carried a trainable Hedgehog until the end of her career?

6. Does anyone know the precise dates of Hazelwood's conversion with the prototype DASH installation?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 3825
Well, I'll try to answer your questions.

1. As background. The first three BWI-built units went to the Pacific with six 20-mm guns (two before the bridge and four amidships on main deck) for USS NICHOLAS and USS O'BANNON, and seven guns (same plus the elevated platform before the bridge) on USS CHEVALIER. During the Guadalcanal campaign EVERY SHIP wanted more AA-guns. Even army 50-cal MGs were installed on some ships ... and never cataloged. The 20-mm guns could be installed by tenders and even crews themselves. The Pacific Fleet units in theater (or elsewhere?) figured out that they could add one (or in at least one case two) 20-mm guns atop the pilothouse. So all three BIW units were so equipped. This really helped with forward fire arc. In the Fall of 1942, a directive was sent out authorizing an extra 20-mm for any destroyer with six or less 20-mm guns. Soon it appears many destroyers took advantage of the availability of extra 20-mm guns, and even more guns were installed. USS NICHOLAS and USS O'BANNON were authorized TEN 20-mm guns and USS CHEVALIER was authorized ELEVEN 20-mm guns, with three installed on the fantail. Dave McComb told me the story that the Gunnery Officer on USS NICHOLAS told him that they at one point had thirteen 20-mm guns. I don't always believe such claims when there are no photos, but since he was the Gunnery Officer, I thought he was more creditable. I looked and looked for photographic evidence or mention in like Deck Logs/War Diaries and found nothing. Plus I could never figure out WHERE they could have installed three more 20-mm guns on USS NICHOLAS beyond the ten already there. There just wasn't any good real estate left for them. Anyway, the Gunnery Officer had the "extra" 20-mm guns removed after he was the one who got wounded by a round going into the bridge.

2. The FLETCHER class when ordered, had four 50-cal MGs authorized along with the quad 1.1-in mount. All four 50-cal MGs were to be installed forward of the bridge, two per side. However, before the first units were anywhere close to being completed, the 50-cal MGs were deleted from the design and six 20-mm guns added. As far as I can tell, the FLETCHER's had the close to the same depth charge battery as completed from contract design. The only difference was they started out originally with only four K-Guns and fewer depth charges. The as completed the all the FLETCHERS had six K-guns and stated with that number. The total number of charges carried was increased in late 1942, but not the number of drop tracks and K-Guns.

3 and 4. The FLETCHER class DDE conversions that retained the Mk 14 torpedo tubes mount, only did so because the planned four fixed tubes and ASW torpedos for them were not available. The Mk 14 mount served to keep the planned displacement as well. That was the same reason that the DDE design retained the K-guns. Yes some, but not all, the DDE's had the Mk 2 TLS (Torpedo Launch System) or the PMGL (No kidding ... Poor Man Gravity Launcher on the fantail) for the Mk 32 torpedoes installed during the 1950s. See attached image of USS WALKER (DDE-517) in July 1956. Depending on IF they actually had/carried ASW torpedoes for their fixed tubes. When the Mk 2 TLS, with two Mk 4 "over the side" launchers, were installed, they replaced the six K-Guns in the same location behind the spray bulwarks making seeing them difficult. The Mk 2 TLS also, rather unsuccessfully, was used to launch the Mk 45 ASW torpedoes, before the Mk 32 ASW torpedo tubes were available.

5. The first batch of FLETCHER class DDE's that had the Mk 15 trainable HH installed (the ones with pole foremast), slowly had the Mk 15 replaced with the Mk 108 rocket launcher during refits in the 1950s' USS O'BANNON was the last unit needing the upgrade. The next to the last FLETCHER DDE to get the Mk 108, did so in 1957. The USN decided to wait and to upgrade USS O'BANNON during her FRAM II upgrade, which as is known, was cancelled. Expecting that she would soon be decommissioned, they didn't "upgrade" her to the Mk 108. The Vietnam War saved her for duty as a gunfire support unit along with most of the remaining all-gun FLETCHERs left at that time.

6. USS HAZELWOOD was in the Boston NSY from 1 August to 4 November 1957, and had the SPS-28 radar installed. In late 1958 she was selected to be the DASH test ship. She went back into Boston NSY and was so modified between 27 March to 12 June 1959. Photos of her near the end of her conversion are dated June 1959.

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:37 pm
Posts: 27
That was very informative, as I was confident it would be. Thank you.

Rick E Davis wrote:
I looked and looked for photographic evidence or mention in like Deck Logs/War Diaries and found nothing. Plus I could never figure out WHERE they could have installed three more 20-mm guns on USS NICHOLAS beyond the ten already there. There just wasn't any good real estate left for them.

That was my thinking, too. I mean, I suppose there might technically have been room for one way out on the bow, like where some of the British Hunt-class destroyers had a single 2pdr pom-pom, but that seems like utter madness on a ship as wet as a Fletcher. Maybe add a third pair in the waist, more or less in line with the second funnel?

Rick E Davis wrote:
The first batch of FLETCHER class DDE's that had the Mk 15 trainable HH installed (the ones with pole foremast), slowly had the Mk 15 replaced with the Mk 108 rocket launcher during refits in the 1950s' USS O'BANNON was the last unit needing the upgrade. The next to the last FLETCHER DDE to get the Mk 108, did so in 1957. The USN decided to wait and to upgrade USS O'BANNON during her FRAM II upgrade, which as is known, was cancelled. Expecting that she would soon be decommissioned, they didn't "upgrade" her to the Mk 108. The Vietnam War saved her for duty as a gunfire support unit along with most of the remaining all-gun FLETCHERs left at that time.

This raises another couple questions I hadn't thought of: Was the original plan to put all sixteen (or however many it was) Fletcher DDEs through FRAM II reconstruction, or did they just want four to create one homogenous division? Either way, were the cancellations just a matter of FRAM II Fletchers turning out to be not enough bang for too much buck, or did the three that were delivered suffer from some specific, unacceptable drawback?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 3825
The plan was to upgrade all eighteen of the FLETCHER class DDE's to FRAM II standards. None of the FLETCHER "Fleet Destroyers" were proposed for FRAM upgrades.

The FRAM program ran into cost-overrun issues and after the first three FLETCHER FRAM II upgrades, upgrades for the remaining units were cancelled. The cost cutting also impacted several SUMNER class (I think 21 units) FRAM II upgrades and the proposed FRAM upgrade of the SUMNER class DMs into destroyers again.

Dr Friedman has a discussion about the FRAM program and what was planned and what got done, in his USN DESTROYER book.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2094 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93 ... 105  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group