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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:06 pm 
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diStefan 3Dprint also does good work-is with Shapeways


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:58 am 
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Location: Canberra, Australia
I am in the last few stages of building the USS Fletcher, the Revell 1/144 kit, and I am depicting the ship with both whaleboats rigged out. My question concerns where the ropes on the double sheaved pulleys used to move the davits in and out are rigged to. I can clearly see where the ropes attaching the pulleys themselves are fastened to, both on the superstructure and the davits, it’s the tie off points for the running lines themselves I can’t find a photo reference for. I assume they could be heaved on either by hand or by being linked up to the electric winch in the port waist.

Any help would be appreciated. I can clock every other line, griping bands etc, and have provided all necessary padeyes, eyebolts for everything else, but this one detail I can’t find a photo reference for.

Steve


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:35 am 
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Location: Caumont-sur-Durance, France
There is a good photograph on page 40 of Al Ross's AOTS on The Sullivans. The fall belays on a pair of bollard-like cleats on the davit itself, a little above the swivel near the base. There is also a drawing of the davit that illustrates the cleats on page 113.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:21 pm 
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Location: Canberra, Australia
Thanks Maurice

Yes, I know where the lowering falls are belayed and have built these points into the davits. Apologies if my description was confusing. It’s the fore and aft rigged lines which control the swinging of the davits in and out that I am interested in. These run from the tops of the davits to points on the superstructure forward and aft of the davits themselves, and when heaved on, allow the davits to be rotated in and out.

On Fletcher, the single lines supporting the pulley runs are fixed to the after inboard end of the forward 20mm gun tubs, and to the deckhouse just aft of the forward funnel. But the free running lines that go through the pulleys have to be tied off somewhere when not being used to heave the davits inboard or outboard.

If I can’t spot anything definitive, or unless someone can suggest a photo or diagram/plan for the early Fletchers, then I will tie them off close to, but just below, the fixed support points. It’s certainly likely that the belaying locations changed according to the configuration of the ship and preference of the crew - Converse for example appears to have the forward ones tied off on the life raft supports adjacent to the forward deckhouse- and maybe according to whether the boats were about to be used, had been used, or were not being used immediately. The available rigging plans are a bit simplified. Perhaps there is something in a Bluejacket manual I haven’t spotted?

This sounds obsessional, but I’m only going to build Fletcher once in this scale, and I’d like to get it as right as I can. On to the next problem!

Cheers

Steve


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:37 pm 
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Stephen,

Frankly I was getting a headache trying to figure out exactly what you are asking for. So I went looking for "close-up" photos of the ship boats on early FLETCHERS swung out. There is a problem with getting such views, anytime another ship is close enough to a FLETCHER so rigged, the FLETCHER normally bring her boats in the stowed position. Onboard views of this operation seem to have not been considered to be a "sexy" photo. :smallsmile:

The attached image is about as good of an image as I can find or expect to find on a FLETCHER.

Attachment:
zDD450x24bCrop-5Jan43.jpg
zDD450x24bCrop-5Jan43.jpg [ 157.17 KiB | Viewed 1402 times ]


The following image onboard an unidentified BENSON-GLEAVES class destroyer is the only one I have come across in my searches at NARA. But it may be useful.

Image


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:05 am 
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Location: Canberra, Australia
Thanks Rick!

The second photo, although showing single sheaved pulleys on a Benson-Gleaves, illustrates the method perfectly. I think I will belay the lines on a cleat as indicated in my post above, in a logical spot close to the fixed lines.

Many thanks for this.

Steve


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:19 am 
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Location: Wallburg, NC
Steven,

Here is a similar shot of USS KIDD with the boat in the stowed position, but also shows the boat fall lines tied off and secured:
Attachment:
FLETCHER Class (KIDD) Stbd Amidships.jpg
FLETCHER Class (KIDD) Stbd Amidships.jpg [ 123.33 KiB | Viewed 1376 times ]


As for the fore/aft lines, I have a shot of USS STODDARD (DD-566) taken in 1967 during our Westpac cruise and it does show the after starboard davit rigged with block/tackle to the 3"/50 gun tub. Not a great photo, but perhaps this is what may help a bit:
Attachment:
DD-566 After Stbd Whaleboat Davit_2.jpg
DD-566 After Stbd Whaleboat Davit_2.jpg [ 73.72 KiB | Viewed 1376 times ]


One other shot of the same davit but from a higher angle:
Attachment:
DD-566 After Stbd Whaleboat Davit_3.jpg
DD-566 After Stbd Whaleboat Davit_3.jpg [ 79.19 KiB | Viewed 1376 times ]


Hope these help!

Hank

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Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:26 pm 
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Location: Canberra, Australia
Thanks Hank

That last photo of the boat’s arrangements looking aft is a corker! Really helpful.

Cheers

Steve


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:58 pm 
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Steven,

Glad to have helped you on this! The blocks are also doubles, so this is a win-win, right?? I also liked Rick's photo of Benson-Gleaves whaleboat - something about the older b/w photos that just can't be duplicated, clarity maybe???

Happy Modeling!

Hank

ps- one of my upcoming projects will be a 1:144 Revell FLETCHER converted to a 1966-67 era USS STODDARD (DD-566).

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HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:18 pm 
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I am modeling a Fletcher Class destroyer USS KIDD . My plans (Blue Jacket) show a "knob" on the aft part of the roof of turret 51 and 55. The plans are not clear as to what this is. Any help would be appreciated.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:07 pm 
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Irv,

I'm unsure of the time frame you are modeling USS KIDD and what feature you are seeing, but it sounds like you are referring to the hood over Gun Captain's hatch on the 5-in 51 and 55 gun mounts. The hood protected the Gun Captain from the blast of the superimposed 5-in gun mount. Also, in front of the Gun Captain's hatch was a "local control" gun sight used to aim the gun when needed. Often was used in close support of troops during an island assault.

Attachment:
zDD661x22crop-8Feb45.jpg
zDD661x22crop-8Feb45.jpg [ 161.96 KiB | Viewed 902 times ]


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:55 am 
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First thank you for your response as I am a first timer here on this forum. I had not thought of the time frame but my plans show only one set of torpedo tubes. Many of the photos I see show 2 sets. My plans show a pair of 40mm (Quad) mounts and a director tower in that location between the stacks. I am having trouble seeing the structures you are referring to in the photo you sent. There is a lot of Structure showing and I am still trying to separate the various components...Irv


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:07 pm 
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I've circled the hood here:


Attachments:
zDD661x22crop-8Feb45.jpg
zDD661x22crop-8Feb45.jpg [ 152.47 KiB | Viewed 862 times ]

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:50 pm 
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GOT IT !!! Thanks for the clarification ! Irv


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:52 pm 
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Irv,

The configuration you are describing is called the Anti-Kamikaze Mod. This was the configuration that USS KIDD was modified to during the repairs to her battle damage during the summer of 1945. The USS KIDD museum people are trying to return her to this configuration from her 1950's configuration.

Here is a closer view of a "typical" Gun Captain's Hatch and Hood. The only difference with the Gun Captain's Hatch and Hood on USS KIDD, is that KIDD had a "lefty" and not a "righty" on 51 mount. AKA the hatch was on the left side of the mount looking from the rear.


Attachments:
zDD596x4crop-11Feb45.jpg
zDD596x4crop-11Feb45.jpg [ 150.08 KiB | Viewed 828 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:36 am 
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I'm looking to make a 1/700 version of the USS Kidd using the USS Cushing kit from Tamiya. Most of the changes should be pretty simple, but the "anti-kamikaze" modification is going to be a bit challenging for me to scratch build. Is anyone aware of a resin or 3d printed conversion kit in 1/700? Model Monkey has a great one in 1/350, but not in 1/700. I even DM asked him if he could scale it down and unfortunately he cannot. Any ideas?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:15 pm 
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The Trumpeter/Pit Road Sullivans kit is the config you want, if you can find one. If you don't want to build that kit, cannibalize one for the parts you need for your Tamiya kit. (But, as I said, you have to find one.)
https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10059409


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:04 pm 
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Dick, pretty much summed up the easy path. You could try Googling "1/700 scale USS THE SULLIVANS kit" and find that there are sources for the Trumpeter kit out there on Amazon, E-Bay, etc. Maybe even at Model shows in the vendor area, or local swap meets. Years ago Samek made a NICE 1/700 USS THE SULLIVANS kit in the Anti-Kamikaze configurations. But, it has been out of production for years.

Getting the Trumpeter kit would be the easiest path. You could use the Tamiya kit to model USS KIDD as she appeared BEFORE she was hit by Kamikazes.

Personally, in 1/700 scale I don't think scratch building would be that hard. Given that the Tamiya CUSHING kit was made with flexibility for multiple versions of FLETCHERS, you won't have to do much (if any) "removal surgery". Making wing deck extensions for the quad 40-mm mounts can be done and use the clipping room from the Tamiya kit's waist twin 40-mm mounts. You could make bulwarks for the quad 40-mm mounts, or if you have some quad 40-mm "tubs" in your spare parts box, you may be able to modify those for the bulwarks. Making a small director deckhouse shouldn't be too difficult either. Trimming the deck edge bulwarks to fit the quad 40-mm clipping rooms wouldn't be difficult.

Oh, also you will need six twin 20-mm gun mounts (two per side at the waist and two on the fantail) and need to modify the fantail "tub" for just two twin 20-mm mounts.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:15 pm 
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Model Monkey
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Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:27 pm
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Location: USA
It took some serious mental gymnastics, but yes, a set of late-war anti-Kamikaze mods is now available in 1/700 scale (AA deck house plus midships quad Bofors tubs).

Link: http://shpws.me/QzrI


Cheers!


Attachments:
1-700 Fletcher class late-war Anti-Kamikaze Mods.jpg
1-700 Fletcher class late-war Anti-Kamikaze Mods.jpg [ 50.37 KiB | Viewed 389 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:42 pm 
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did you strain any muscles doing those gymnastics?


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