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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:19 pm 
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Location: Cork, Ireland
Hi all, this appears to be a subject that does not get much coverage, so I thought I'd see what happens. I was in town yesterday and two "Bremmen" class general purpose Frigates were in Cork city Port, the "Lubeck" F214, and the "Rheinland-Pfalz" F209. Both ships are part of 4 Fregattengeschwader (4th Frigate Squadron) which comprises all 8 ships of the class and they are based at Wilhelmshaven. The "Bremmen" class were the last post WW2 German Warships built to the treaty restrictions imposed after that conflict. Typically, I didn't have my camera (not that it's much good anyway) so I "borrowed" a couple of free serve piccy's from those nice people at Wickapedia ( all due acknowledgments to the owners etc, etc, blah, blah, blah). Could make an interesting modeling subject perhaps, I'm not aware of any post WW2 German Warship models other than Airfix's "Rommel" and the upcoming Revell 1/144? Fletcher (modified German Version). With all the interest in the DKM WW2 era ships, it would be interesting to see if there is any interest in the German Navy's newer stuff.


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File comment: F209 Rheinland-Pfalz in Keil
F209 Rheinland-Pfalz.jpg
F209 Rheinland-Pfalz.jpg [ 50.02 KiB | Viewed 3633 times ]
File comment: F214 Lubeck in Plymouth Sound
F 214 Lubeck.jpg
F 214 Lubeck.jpg [ 46.59 KiB | Viewed 3612 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:30 am 
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Location: Perth Western Australia
Aidan
yes one of my favorate subjects, shipspotter.com is a great place for current photos of the moden german Navy just go to ther warship section only trouble is that I have just had to wade throught about 60 photos of russian navy stuff NON of which I had seen before :woo_hoo: :woo_hoo: :woo_hoo: life shouldn't be this good !!! :big_grin:
A great site

Graham Murdoch


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:46 pm 
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I for one, am a fan of modern era subjects, especially of the destroyer/frigate type. Type 123s are mean looking ships, and would make great models, as would Type 122 and 124.

Cheers.
Pachi.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:09 pm 
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graham wrote:
I'm not aware of any post WW2 German Warship models other than Airfix's "Rommel" and the upcoming Revell 1/144? Fletcher (modified German Version)

Revell had a Type 122 in 1/300 scale, it was void of details but it was large for a kid, which I was when I saw it :smallsmile:

Cheers
João

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:47 pm 
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Location: ATHENS, GREECE
BRANDENBURG CLASS (TYPE 123) (FFG)

IN SERVICE: 4

BRANDENBURG
F 215
Blohm + Voss, Hamburg

SCHLESWIG-HOLSTEIN
F 216
Howaldtswerke, Kiel

BAYERN
F 217
Thyssen Nordseewerke, Emden

MECKLENBURG-VORPOMMERN
F 218
Bremer Vulkan/Thyssen Nordseewerke

Displacement, tons: 4,900 full load
Dimensions, feet (metres): 455.7 oa; 416.3 wl × 54.8 × 22.3
(138.9; 126.9 × 16.7 × 6.8)
Main machinery: CODOG; 2 GE 7LM2500SA-ML gas turbines; 51,000 hp (38 MW) sustained; 2 MTU 20V 956 TB92 diesels; 11,070 hp(m) (8.14 MW) sustained; 2 shafts; Escher Weiss; cp props
Speed, knots: 29; 18 on diesels. Range, miles: 4,000 at 18 kt
Complement: 199 (27 officers) plus 19 aircrew

Missiles: SSM: 4 Aerospatiale MM 38 Exocet (2 twin) [Ref 1] (from Type 101A); inertial cruise; active radar homing to 42 km (23 n miles) at 0.9 Mach; warhead 165 kg; sea-skimmer.
SAM: Martin Marietta VLS Mk 41 Mod 3 [Ref 2] for 16 NATO Sea Sparrow; semi-active radar homing to 14.6 km (8 n miles) at 2.5 Mach; warhead 39 kg.
2 RAM 21 cell Mk 49 launchers [Ref 3]; passive IR/anti-radiation homing to 9.6 km (5.2 n miles) at 2 Mach; warhead 9.1 kg; 32 missiles.
Guns: 1 OTO Melara 3 in (76 mm)/62 Mk 75 [Ref 4]; 85 rds/min to 16 km (8.6 n miles) anti-surface; 12 km (6.5 n miles) anti-aircraft; weight of shell 6 kg.
2 Rheinmetall 20 mm Rh 202 to be replaced by Mauser 27 mm.
Torpedoes: 4-324 mm Mk 32 Mod 9 (2 twin) tubes [Ref 5]; anti-submarine. Honeywell Mk 46 Mod 2; anti-submarine; active/passive homing to 11 km (5.9 n miles) at 40 kt; warhead 44 kg. To be replaced by Eurotorp Mu 90 Impact in due course.
Countermeasures: Decoys: 2 Breda SCLAR [Ref 6]. Chaff and IR flares.
ESM/ECM: TST FL 1800S Stage II; intercept and jammers.
Combat data systems: Atlas Elektronik/Paramax SATIR action data automation with Unisys UYK 43 computer; Link 11. Matra Marconi SCOT 3 SATCOM [Ref 7].
Weapons control: Signaal MWCS. 2 optical sights. STN Atlas Elektronic WBA optronic sensor.
Radars: Air search: Signaal LW08 [Ref 8]; D-band.
Air/Surface search [Ref 9]: Signaal SMART; 3D; F-band.
Fire control: 2 Signaal STIR 180 trackers [Ref 10].
Navigation: 2 Raytheon Raypath; I-band.
Sonars: Atlas Elektronik DSQS-23BZ; hull-mounted; active search and attack; medium frequency.
Towed array (provision only); active; low frequency.

Helicopters: 2 Westland Sea Lynx Mk 88 or 88A [Ref 11].


Programmes: Formerly 'Deutschland' class. Four ordered 28 June 1989. Developed by Blohm + Voss whose design was selected in October 1988. Replaced deleted 'Hamburg' class.
Modernisation: LFASS (low frequency active sonar system) towed array to be fitted from 2003. SCOT 3 SATCOM and STN optronic sensor fitted from 1998.
Structure: The design is a mixture of MEKO and improved serviceability Type 122 having the same propulsion as the Type 122. Contemporary stealth features. All steel. Fin stabilisers. Space allocated for a Task Group Commander and Staff.
Operational: 6th Frigate Squadron based at Wilhelmshaven. One RIB may be carried for boarding operations.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:51 pm 
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Location: ATHENS, GREECE
SACHSEN CLASS (TYPE 124) (FFG)
IN SERVICE: 0
BUILDING: 3

SACHSEN
F 219
Blohm + Voss, Hamburg

HAMBURG
F 220
Howaldtswerke, Kiel

HESSEN
F 221
Thyssen Nordseewerke, Emden

Displacement, tons: 5,600 full load
Dimensions, feet (metres): 469.2 oa; 433.7 wl × 57.1 × 14.4
(143; 132.2 × 17.4 × 4.4)
Main machinery: CODAG; 1 GE LM 2500 gas turbine; 31,514 hp (23.5 MW); 2 MTU 20V 1163 TB 93 diesels; 20,128 hp(m) (14.8 MW); 2 shafts; cp props
Speed, knots: 29. Range, miles: 4,000 at 18 kt
Complement: 255 (39 officers)

Missiles: SSM: 8 Harpoon [Ref 1] 2 (quad).
SAM: Mk 41 VLS [Ref 2] 32 cells for Standard SM 2 Block IIIA and Evolved Sea Sparrow.
2 RAM launchers [Ref 3]. 21 cells each.
Guns: 1 OTOBreda 76 mm/62 IRDF [Ref 4].
2 Mauser 27 mm [Ref 5].
Torpedoes: 6-324 mm (2 triple) Mk 32 Mod 7 tubes [Ref 6]. Eurotorp Mu 90 Impact.
Countermeasures: Decoys: 6 SRBOC 130 mm chaff launchers [Ref 7].
ESM/ECM: DASA Fl 1800S-II; intercept [Ref 8] and jammer.
Combat data systems: SEWACO FD; Link 11/16.
Weapons control: MSP optronic director [Ref 9].
Radars: Air search: SMART L [Ref 10] 3D; D-band.
Air/surface search: Signaal APAR phased array [Ref 11].
Surface search: Triton G [Ref 12]; C-band.
Navigation: 2 sets; I-band.
IFF: Mk XII.
Sonars: Atlas DSQS-21B; bow-mounted; active search; medium frequency.
Active towed array; low frequency.

Helicopters: 2 NFH 90 [Ref 13] or 2 Lynx 88A.


Programmes: Type 124 air defence ships are needed to replace the 'Lütjens' class. A collaborative design with the Netherlands has evolved with a common AAW system based on the Evolved Sea Sparrow missile. A Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) was signed in October 1993 between Blohm + Voss, Royal Schelde and Bazán shipyards. A contract to build three ships was authorised on 12 June 1996 with an option on a fourth. First steel cut 27 February 1998 for Sachsen.
Structure: Based on the Type 123 hull with improved stealth features. MBB-FHS helo handling system.


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l0069994.jpg
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p0104512.jpg [ 47.47 KiB | Viewed 3619 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:05 pm 
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Location: Cork, Ireland
Hi Guys, well I must say I'm very pleased at the responce this post has recieved, thanks for all your input. Over here in Paddy land it's very rare to see any decent sized warships (our navy's vessels could hardly be called warships). The last time anything good came in was about 2 years ago, a Royal Navy Destroyer, but, because of stupid politics, you couldn't get near to it, so it was really nice to see a couple of big German beasties that where close enough to touch. I like warships of any description, but there is something about the design of German vessels, they have an incredibly menacing sleakness about them, an almost sinister elegance if you like. One thing that struck me was just how spotless the two ships were, not a speck of rust anywhere, and the crew were imaculately turned out with typical German attention to detail. The new 124's are certainly very impressive looking ships, I wonder how long I'll have to wait to see one of those in the flesh.

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"I see no ships,, whats that Hardy? oh er, right, ah, thats better, F@@k Me, look at all those ships"


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:49 pm 
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Hi guys,

I hope this thread is still active. When talking of modern German navy I always regret that there seem to be only so few model kits in 1/700 available. The only manufacturer which offers at least one or two kits that I know of is NNT. I would be very interested in building the one or other ship (a Sachsen Class frigate would be nice) but so far I'm still looking. Of course this is also the same problem when it comes to other (modern) European navies, unfortunately. Perhaps one of you guys has more information on the matter? Cheers! :wave_1:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:16 pm 
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Location: Calgary, AB/Surrey, B.C., Canada
Not sure if you know, but Admiralty Modelworks has the Schleswig-Holstein D182 and Hamburg D181 for sale in resin:
http://www.admiraltymodelworks.com/Prod ... hKits.html

Review for the D181:
http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... eview.html

Review for the D182:
http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... eview.html

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:22 am 
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No, I didn't. Thanks for the links!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:16 pm 
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You know the recent Charles F. Adams Class re-issue should come with the parts to make the German variant.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:28 pm 
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ASFC wrote:
You know the recent Charles F. Adams Class re-issue should come with the parts to make the German variant.


I have a Lutjens in progress, i had to purchase the RAM launchers a nice build though, just a little scratching to do.

Happy modeling

John

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:12 pm 
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That would not be the one lurking in the early oages of the 'Postwar Navy in 1/700'?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:36 pm 
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We have some photos of the German Adams class DDG Molders posted on the USS Barney association website. Molders is now a museum ship.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:17 pm 
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Hi,

Given my HDMS Absalon L16 project (viewtopic.php?f=51&t=154691#p632447) is rapidly coming to conclusion due to holiday season, I select just select from the unbuilt model pile my next project: FGS Sachsen F219 (German Navy Type 124 Frigate) also from NNT at 1/700 scale.
Image

At the first glance Sachsen model doesn't have the same high quality level as the NNT Absalon, but it's a very good looking model with a very complete PE set and nice decals.

As usual for other NNT models I've built, the instruction sheet could be better. :)

A review (in German) of this model (the google webpage translator feature provides a "quite accurate" translation)
http://www.modellmarine.de/index.php?op ... 0&catid=51


Thanks.
Regards,
Ayala Botto

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Last edited by AyalaBotto on Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:38 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:20 pm 
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Hi,

Some updates on this project after 10 hours work and already some improvements on the original model:
Image
Image
Image

Thanks.
Regards,
Ayala Botto

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:11 am 
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Some photos of Sachsen class frigates:
http://www.modellmarine.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2327%3Adeutsche-fregatte-hamburg-in-wilhemshaven&catid=271&Itemid=1
http://www.modellmarine.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2326%3Adeutsche-fregatte-sachsen-in-wilhelmshaven&catid=271&Itemid=1
http://www.modellmarine.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1832%3Afregatte-hamburg-teil-1&catid=271&Itemid=1
http://www.modellmarine.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1833:fregatte-hamburg-teil-2&catid=271:aktive-schiffe
http://www.modellmarine.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1732%3Af-219-sachsen&catid=271&Itemid=1
(click on "Link zur Bildergalerie" to see the photos)

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:22 am 
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Hi,

Thanks for the useful links.
I noticed FGS Sachsen class frigates carry two different shapes of SatCom domes close to the MLG 27mm guns.
NNT model also provides options for those SatCom domes. Take a look on the last 2 photos I published.

Image

Image

Which SatCom dome should I use?


Thanks.
Regards,
Ayala Botto

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Last edited by AyalaBotto on Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:26 am 
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Which ship do you like to built and when?

I have seen Hamburg in June 2014 and then she had these ones:
Image

Image

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:31 am 
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Hi,

It seems the SatCom domes visible on your photos are the current version and I'll use them on my FGS Sachsen.
I'll use the other ones on FGS Bremen F207 - German Navy Frigate Type 122 (NNT 1/700). This project is suspended because I lost precisely the domes!

Another question: the ladders close to the Torpedo Tubes have the same angle of the structure or are installed with a 90º angle to the deck?

Thanks.
Regards,
Ayala Botto

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