The Ship Model Forum

Thats kind of what I thought. At the very least, something needs to block the "see thru" look below the conning tower and deck gun mount.

Thanks for your reply. It is appreciated!

Mark Proulx

Quick question, building the Hobby Boss type VIIa, the first subtype, and have read they did not have the underwater stern torpedo tube and a single rudder. The kit has the above water tube, and also the trough for the underwater tube, as well as twin rudders. Anyone know the real deal. Wanting to make U30, 1939.

I would recommend reaching out to Oto at www.rcsubs.cz, or find their Facebook page. They are very knowledgeable about everything relating to U-Boats and I suspect can answer your questions. If Oto doesn't have your answer I suspect there are others who will.

Another site you could check is www.uboat.net. There is a wealth of information available at that site.

Good luck!

Dave

You're right, the Type VIIA had the external tube on the aft deck and a single rudder. Here's the only profile drawing I've seen (from Rössler's The U-boat):



The shape of the hull was a bit different between the Type VIIA and VIIC as well (also from the Rössler book):



But I don't think that would be easy to fix if it's wrong in the kit.

Jacob

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Under Construction:
1/350 Typhoon
1/350 Skate
1/350 USS Nautilus
1/350 Tang
1/350 November
1/350 Hotel II
1/350 Alfa
1/350 George Washington
1/72 Type VIIC

Thanks for the quick response guys, looks like I’ll be doing a bit of surgery on the kit

I am looking to build Revell’s 1/72 Type VIIC. I have some questions regarding what is available after market and what must be scratch built.

I like to open up all the hull top limber holes. Are there any after market pressure hull tops that can be used to fill in the empty space behind the limber holes? Also are there PE replacement for the hull top limber holes?

I also like to open up the limber holes along hull bottom, and near the torpedo tubes. Are there any after market PE that can be used to replace the molded-in limber holes on the hull bottom and any things that can be seen through the holes?

I don’t plan to cut open the hull and show any interior, but I would like to have the torpedo tube doors open. Are there any after markets sets for the inside of the torpedo trough?

Are there any aftermarket parts for the deck torpedo loading hatches?

Thanks

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Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.

Hi Chuck,
As far as aftermarket parts, Eduard makes a photo etch set for this kit. Once upon a time, the late, great Yankee ModelWorks made a Type VIIC resin pressure hull for the kit. Very scarce, couldn’t find any online. CMK makes a series of interior sections, mostly for those who want to convert the Type VIIC kit to a cutaway version.

I have scratched a pressure hull in the past for other kits. A cardboard tube of appropriate size can be covered with a styrene sheet and additional pieces, such as adding short tubing up to hatches and maybe a few bits and pieces of thin plastic rods. Paint a dark color before enclosing it. It’s not very visible through the limber flood holes, it just blocks the “see through” aspect, so it looks pretty convincing. The Yankee ModelWorks version can act as a guide:
https://www.scalehobbyist.com/product.php?sn=YKM00007201

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Tom Dougherty
Researcher for: "Project Azorian”
https://www.amazon.com/Azorian-Raising-K-129-Michael-White/dp/B008QTU7QY
"Project Azorian: The CIA and the Raising of the K-129" Book
https://www.usni.org/press/books/project-azorian

RC Subs has a couple of sets of PE limber hole "plates":
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/rc-subs ... 1--1294974
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/rc-subs ... 5--1294973

AMP/Accurate Model Parts also did a similar set: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/accurat ... t--1317164

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De quoi s'agit-il?

There are a number of limber holes on the bottom of type VII, through which keel beams, the body of torpedo tubes, and other underwater structures between outer hull and pressure hull etc are visible. What color would these be? Would they be painted the same anti-fouling gray as the outside of the underwater hull? Or would they be painted white?

A reason I suspect they might be painted white is on U-505 displayed in Chicago, some of the underwater interior structure between external hull and pressure hull, such as the bulkhead supporting the front ends of bow torpedo tubes, appears to be painted white.

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Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.

The front torpedo tubes on VII boats have a round watertight inner door and a rectangular streamline outer flap. Do the rear torpedo tube also have some kind of outer flap covering the watertight round tube door? or the the round tube door exposed?

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Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.

Yes, the aft tube on the Type VIIB and VIIC had a shutter (verkleigdungsklappe) that faired the aft torpedo tube muzzle door. There is a drawing of the shutter and muzzle door assembly in Vom Original zum Modell: Uboottyp VII C by Fritz Köhl and Alex Niestle:

https://i.imgur.com/MyvatTZ.png

Here is a photo of a Type VIIB or VIIC showing the shutter:

https://i.imgur.com/wW5fo87.jpg

In regard to your question about the main ballast tank interior paint, the answer can be found in the 1940 regulations for submarine coatings:

http://www.u-boot-archiv.de/dieboote/farben_maerz_1940.html

Main ballast tanks were to be coated in several coats of bilge paint (Zellenfarbe, Bilgen) of an unspecified color, presumably whatever was at hand. I don't know what a typical bilge paint color was in the Kriegsmarine, but I think red or perhaps dark grey is most likely. I'd be curious if anyone has any insight into German WWII bilge paint colors.

Jacob

_________________
Under Construction:
1/350 Typhoon
1/350 Skate
1/350 USS Nautilus
1/350 Tang
1/350 November
1/350 Hotel II
1/350 Alfa
1/350 George Washington
1/72 Type VIIC

Apropos to this thread, a number of years ago I was given a 1/72 Type VII wood deck and resin accessories (hatches etc.). I will not be building a 1/72 scale Type VII, so if anyone is interested in the deck, it's yours for the asking. Only asking the person to cover postage costs. Leave me a post here or preferably a PM on this board.

_________________
Tom Dougherty
Researcher for: "Project Azorian”
https://www.amazon.com/Azorian-Raising-K-129-Michael-White/dp/B008QTU7QY
"Project Azorian: The CIA and the Raising of the K-129" Book
https://www.usni.org/press/books/project-azorian

On type II, VII, and IX, there are large numbers of limber holes under the external hull at locations corresponding to front and rear ballast tanks. Does this mean the ballast tanks were open to the sea on the bottom?

While this would make it easy fill the tank very quickly for quick diving and to blow the water out of the tank when the submarine needs to surface, it would only work right if the submarine is on a somewhat even keel. It also makes it impossible to completely empty the ballast tank because the bottom is v shaped and air will begin to escape out the limber holes before all the water on the bottom are blow out.

What do you think?

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Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.

Ah "limber hole" means a hole in the free-flooding superstructure allowing it to flood and drain quickly. What you are referencing are "flood holes."

In the early 20th Century, nearly all submarines had flood valves (Kingstons) that sealed the bottom of the main ballast tanks. To dive a submarine would have to open both the vents at the top of the MBTs and the Kingstons at the bottom. During WWI the Germans realized that the Kingstons were unnecessary and omitted them, relying solely on the vents to keep water in the MBTs. Air could only leave the MBTs through the flood holes under exceptional circumstances, probably well over 45 degrees of roll and/or nearly 90 degrees in pitch, in which case the submarine was probably in dire straits for other reasons. The small amount of water remaining within the envelope of the MBTs was accounted for in the design. The vents were reliable enough to rely on them alone to hold air in the MBTs, a practice called "riding the vents." After WWI, the U.S. Navy eliminated most of the flood valves on its submarines and all current U.S. nuclear submarines have simple flood holes (albeit covered with gratings to reduce noise).

The Type II and VII had Kingstons for their amidships, internal MBT, probably for safety in the unlikely event that the vents failed. However, they were normally left open. The Type IX apparently had Kingstons on one of its amidships MBTs as well.

One additional thing to consider is that other types of tanks do require Kingstons. Fuel-ballast tanks, which can be used as MBTs after the fuel in them is used up, require Kingstons when acting as fuel tanks. Negative and safety tanks also require Kingstons. Kingstons also are occasionally used when flow-induced noise and vibration is problematic, although these days it is more common to use vortex-dissipating gratings.

Jacob

_________________
Under Construction:
1/350 Typhoon
1/350 Skate
1/350 USS Nautilus
1/350 Tang
1/350 November
1/350 Hotel II
1/350 Alfa
1/350 George Washington
1/72 Type VIIC

Thank you!

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Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.

VII and IX boats have a ring antenna for radio direction finding that retracts into a slot at the side of the open bridge when not in use. Photos of the ring antenna extended seems to be rare, and all the ones I’ve seen the ring rises onto a short distance above the edge of the open bridge. The same with illustrations in anatomy of the ship. However a photo of a original KM diagram of the ring antenna mechansim suggest the mast on which the ring is mounted is telescoping and there is a well inside the pressure hull for the mast, similar to periscope well that lets the long periscope shaft to retract. This would imply the antenna can be raised much higher than the rim of the open bridge, and can probably be raised as high as the attack telescope.

I like to confirm that before building a model with a ring antenna at attack periscope head level.

Has anyone seen any photos of a Uboat with ring antenna raised all the way up?

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Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.

Could you post the drawing you referenced? I am pretty sure the DF mast could not raise as high as the periscopes and there wasn't any hull penetration as far as I can tell.

Jacob

_________________
Under Construction:
1/350 Typhoon
1/350 Skate
1/350 USS Nautilus
1/350 Tang
1/350 November
1/350 Hotel II
1/350 Alfa
1/350 George Washington
1/72 Type VIIC

_________________
Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.

That drawing probably shows the full range of motion of the mast. The inboard components appear just to be training gear to turn the antenna in azimuth. Where is this drawing from? It would help to know what the numbers correspond to.

Jacob

_________________
Under Construction:
1/350 Typhoon
1/350 Skate
1/350 USS Nautilus
1/350 Tang
1/350 November
1/350 Hotel II
1/350 Alfa
1/350 George Washington
1/72 Type VIIC

Unfortunately I don’t have the rest of the drawing. The image of the drawing is taken from this book: https://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Attack-U-Boats-Kriegsmarines-Submarine-ebook/dp/B08N1HKNWV?ref_=ast_author_mpb

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Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.