The Ship Model Forum

I can work with that, thanks! The kit comes with two open doors and what I usually like to do is one tube capped and another with the missile maybe about half way out (generally just sitting on a spring of convenient size for fun) The white and silver should add a bit of color to an otherwise black hole.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Happy to help. Of course it helps that I have a RN submariner a couple offices over.

Dave

Hello, first I will answer the question from a few pages ago - what is the function of the fifth torpedo tube. Friedman writes that as early as Swiftsure, he was seen only for decoys. And now let me ask - did a photo of a pump jet tested on Churchill appear by chance? I'm currently researching Swiftsure and Trafalgar, but in the chapter for the former it was mentioned that the pump jet was tested on Churchill first. I also came across information that Trafalgar was also re-equipped with a pump jet.
By the way, where is Churchill now? The satellite image of Devonport shows (and very clearly) only 6 Swiftsures and 5 Trafalgars.

Hi Georgi,

Thanks for the info on the fifth torpedo tube, I didn't know that.
I'm afraid there are no published (or leaked) photos of a pumpjet on any of the Churchills, apparently these were highly classified at the time and never released since then. I guess it will take many years before these will appear but one never knows.

I just checked Google Earth on the status of the dockyard in Devonport. I don't share your analysis: there are clearly three hulls of the Valiant/Churchill class present. See the yellow arrows. The other eight are indeed Swiftsure/Trafalgar types. A few years ago this basin looked like this: the boat laying by itself is Courageous.
The fourth Churchill is at the Rosyth dockyard:The the right (smaller) one is Dreadnought. So there is one missing of the five: probably that's Courageous, being moored at a different location as an exhibit in the Devonport Heritage Museum. I couldn't find her in Google earth though, maybe she's undergoing maintenance or modifications at various locations (not spotted by spying satellites...)
I hope you see the differences with the Swiftsures? The tails of the boats are more slender, and when you look closely you can see the attachment of the forward dive planes on the foredeck, which is not there on the Swiftsure/Trafalgars.

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"I've heard there's a wicked war a-blazing, and the taste of war I know so very well
Even now I see the foreign flag a-raising, their guns on fire as we sail into hell"
Roger Whittaker +9/13/2023

I agree with you. Apparently I was admiring too much that the outlines of the pumjets are visible so well.
Until new information about Churchill, I will continue with Swiftsure and Trafalgar work. Unfortunately, due to the shape of the Swiftsure pumpjet, it will not be possible to offer both options in one kit.

Hi Georgi,

As the Churchill was the testbed for the pumpjet on the Swiftsure class, I would make the safe guess that that a Swiftsure/Trafalgar pumpjet on the Churchill hull would be very close to what it must have looked like. Anything else would be a wild guess.

_________________
"I've heard there's a wicked war a-blazing, and the taste of war I know so very well
Even now I see the foreign flag a-raising, their guns on fire as we sail into hell"
Roger Whittaker +9/13/2023

The problem in this situation is that the pumpjet at Trafalgar and Swiftsure looks different... and I have doubts that it remained on the ship after the tests... on the other hand, nothing prevents us from adding an optional part for those who want it But that will be later, now I wonder how and if we will be able to make a kit that has an option for Swiftsur and the other ships in the class. In the main ship, the rudders are of a different shape, in the rest of the class, the pumpjet is attached to the rudder. The other thing that bothers me is Trafalgar - at best only 4 of the ships (and not all the time) looked the same. Most likely in our new model it will show the last 4 at the beginning of their service. Because later on with the addition of the acoustic decoy launchers they start to differ.

The problem is not the situation of the pumpjet, the main problem is that we pay for orders and we receive nothing and behind it there is silence.

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In progress :
1/700 : CVN 68 USS Nimitz 2005 Trumpeter
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Hi Georgi,

Quote: '...that the pumpjet at Trafalgar and Swiftsure looks different...' I really wonder how do you know that? And if you have any sources, to what extent they were different? Do you happen to have any pictures that support this 'difference'?

Further you mention 'the pumpjet is attached to the rudder.' Are you sure? Are we talking then about a Z-drive or Rudder Propeller? That would then be a very early application of this technique and makes me wonder why it wasn't applied to the Swiftsures and Trafalgars.

_________________
"I've heard there's a wicked war a-blazing, and the taste of war I know so very well
Even now I see the foreign flag a-raising, their guns on fire as we sail into hell"
Roger Whittaker +9/13/2023