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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:56 pm 
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Location: Bremerton, Wa
Thanks to Timmy C for providing a link to my review of the Micro Mir Sturgeon in response to this question:
krgf15 wrote:
What do you guys think about the Micro Mir vs the Yankee Modelworks Thresher? I want one in 1/350, but cant find any good reviews. Almost all of my subs are in 1/350, and im up to about 20 different WW2 and post WW2 boats in that scale.


I also have the Micro Mir Thresher kit and intend to post a review of it soon, when time allows. My initial impression is very favorable, but like the Micro Mir Sturgeon, their Thresher is of a 'short hull' Thresher or Permit class SSN prior to installation of the towed array. Unfortunately, I can't tell you anything about the Yankee Modelworks kit because I've never acquired one. Based on my research, though, the Micro Mir kit would be about half the price.

John :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:07 pm 
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cool, thanks guys. I ordered both, seems like they should be a fairly quick build, and they should look nice next to my growing group of 1/350 WW2 and post war boats.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:27 pm 
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As you guys know, I am "scratch building" USS Greenling (SSN-614) in 1/144 scale. The test pieces have been made and I changed the design. Here is the part diagram.
Attachment:
Greenling-144-all.jpg
Greenling-144-all.jpg [ 95.7 KiB | Viewed 4255 times ]

It has been suggested that when I finish I could use the parts to make resin molds for making multiple parts and selling them as kits. Is there any interest out there? Would anyone like to have a 1/144 scale resin model kit of USS Greenling (SS-614)? If so, let me know.

CHEERS!!!

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Completed:
1/350 USS Missouri (BB-63) * 1/350 USS England (DE-635) * "Underway Personnel Transfer" Diorama

In Progress:
1/350 USS Bennington (CV-20)
1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:36 am 
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Count me in!!!!! 1/144 is my favorite sub scale, just not alot of choices out there.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:13 pm 
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Well krgf15, you are the only one that has shown interest so far, so I am not sure that I will be making resin copies. I may be able to make an extra set of parts though. I'll let you know. If you haven't seen the parts yet, you can see them on Post 8 of my WIP: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=125875&p=539597#p539597

On another note, can anyone tell me what these so called "Zincs" are and what they are for? Anybody have any pictures of them? Real or model, I'm not picky.

CHEERS!!!

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Completed:
1/350 USS Missouri (BB-63) * 1/350 USS England (DE-635) * "Underway Personnel Transfer" Diorama

In Progress:
1/350 USS Bennington (CV-20)
1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:36 pm 
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Zincs are placed near the propeller area to "spare" the propeller bronze from being degraded and pitted (increasing turbulence and emiited sound). Many of the ions contained in seawater have very high reduction potentials. The seawater will set up an electrochemical reaction that will degrade the bronze unless another metal (more easily oxidized) is nearby. The zinc bars degrade over time and are replaced periodically. One of the four zincs is visible in this photo of USS Greenville in drydock: http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0877226.jpg It's the dull white horizontal strip between the upper rudder and port sternplane. There are three additional strips in similar places between the rudders and sternplanes.

See drawing for placement of the upper and lower (slightly shorter) zincs on the stern of a Permit class sub. It also shows the mushroom stern anchor


Attachments:
File comment: Permit class stern
c8-modB.jpg
c8-modB.jpg [ 89.76 KiB | Viewed 4205 times ]

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Tom Dougherty
Researcher for: "Azorian: The Raising of the K-129" DVD
http://www.projectjennifer.at/
"Project Azorian: The CIA and the Raising of the K-129" Book
http://www.usni.org/store/catalog-fall-2012/project-azorian
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:28 am 
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Having a 1/144 thresher would be the greatest thing ever!!!! That class doesn't get enough love.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:33 pm 
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Tom found the pic I missed! :smallsmile:

Guess that answers the 'zinc' question ... in two threads. :heh:

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Мощность для рабочих, которые просто пытаются построить простой судна под строгим тиранов! - В. И. Ленин

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:14 am 
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:smallsmile:
Make that 3. I also put it on the Subcommittee forum.
The more the merrier!
:thumbs_up_1:

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Completed:
1/350 USS Missouri (BB-63) * 1/350 USS England (DE-635) * "Underway Personnel Transfer" Diorama

In Progress:
1/350 USS Bennington (CV-20)
1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:09 pm 
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it will be far prettier than the 1/144 seawolf


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Quote:
Having a 1/144 thresher would be the greatest thing ever


Uuummm, just to clarify. Russell is doing Greenling, which is a much modified version of the Thresher/Permits. The hull is longer and has a different sail. So, you can't accurately model the earlier Permits from his work.

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Tom Dougherty
Researcher for: "Azorian: The Raising of the K-129" DVD
http://www.projectjennifer.at/
"Project Azorian: The CIA and the Raising of the K-129" Book
http://www.usni.org/store/catalog-fall-2012/project-azorian


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:03 pm 
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lol I am aware of that kind sir. I should have said thresher/permit class. Either way its better looking than a seawolf to me.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:55 am 
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Soooo, I really like the micro mir Thresher, and im wondering how complicated it would be to add a plug in the hull to make the longer hull versions. Not all of the longer hull versions had the bigger sail did they? And as far as the bigger sail, does anybody have dimensions on that in 1/350? I have alot of spare 688 sails, and wondering if they are modable to the larger 593 sails. Just wondering..... Same question kind of applies for the Sturgeon hulls too.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:07 pm 
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Happy Holidays All!!!

krgf15:

As you may know, I am converting plans that I was kindly given of USS Permit to USS Greenling. I am maintaining a Build Log that you may find interesting at:

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=125875&start=20

Early on I was looking into the class and researching their characteristics and found some information that may be useful to you. I can’t 100% vouch for the accuracy of the information since it came from various sources on the internet, but I think it is probably fairly accurate.

First you can order a print of all of the Thresher/Permit class on-line for $25 at:

http://www.warart.com/index.php?crn=52& ... how_detail
Here's a low res version:
Attachment:
01-ThresherPermitPrint.jpg
01-ThresherPermitPrint.jpg [ 78.68 KiB | Viewed 4051 times ]

Using this print, and other Web sources I came up with the following table showing which subs had what size hull and sail.

Permit/Thresher Class Submarines
SSN USS Hull Sail
593 Thresher S S
594 Permit S S
595 Plunger S S
596 Barb S S
603 Pollack S S
604 Haddo S S
605 Jack XL S
606 Tinosa S S
607 Dace S S
612 Guardfish S S
613 Flasher L L
614 Greenling L L
615 Gato L L
621 Haddock S L

The Hull sizes are as follows:
S – Short: 278' 6"
L – Long: 292' 3"
XL – Extra Long: 297' 4" (Jack only)

The difference in length between the short and long hulls is 13’9”, which at 1/350 scale is 0.47”. I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t slice the hull and add a plug right behind the sail, as long as you can get a cut vertical to the long axis of the hull.

As for the sails, I never found any actual dimensions on-line, but from the plans I have, the small sail has the following dimensions:

Thresher/Permit Class Small Sail Sizes
Length: 20.80’
Height: 13.90’
Width: 4.17’

At 1/350 scale, the dimensions would be:

1/350 Scale Thresher/Permit Class Small Sail Sizes
Length: 0.71”
Height: 0.48”
Width: 0.14”

To get the large sail dimensions, I used the print. Below are 2 images from AutoCad. The top image shows the print scaled so that the hull length of Thresher matched the length of the plans. Note that the sail from the plans matches the size and location of the print nicely. The bottom image shows the same scaled print but realigned so that the print was aligned with the hull of Greenling, which was modified by adding the 13’9” to the “pipe” section of the hull. Note that the print length matches the modified plan length spot on. Also note that the sail of the Greenling on the print is clearly larger and moved slightly forward of the Thresher sail.
Attachment:
02-sailplane.jpg
02-sailplane.jpg [ 71.53 KiB | Viewed 4051 times ]

Assuming that since the print was accurate in the hull lengths and Thresher’s sail that it also accurately portrayed Greenlng’s sail I traced the sail on the print onto the AutoCad plans.

As both a check on the sail dimensions, and to see where the sail plane should be located, I overlaid the sails and Thresher’s sail plane over an image of Gato scaled so that the length of the sail in the photo matched the Greenling sail traced from the print.
Attachment:
03-sailplane-gato.jpg
03-sailplane-gato.jpg [ 118.44 KiB | Viewed 4051 times ]

After scaling the photo, I moved it so that the upper forward corner in the photo matched the tracing. The results as you can see are pretty darn good. Note that the Permit sail is added for comparison in size and sail plane location only and is aligned so that the aft ends of the sails are aligned, and does not therefore show the relative location of the sails. You can also see the sail plane sections that I developed from the photo.

So, using this method, and what I would normally call BPJ for Best Professional Judgement, but since I am by no means a professional at modeling or naval architecture, I’ll call it BMJ for Best Modeler’s Judgment, to determine the sail width, I came up with the following dimensions for Greenling (and all other large sails):

Thresher/Permit Class LargeSail Sizes
Length: 26.85’
Height: 13.90”
Width: 4.76”

At 1/350 scale, the dimensions would be:

1/350 Scale Thresher/Permit Class Large Sail Sizes
Length: 0.71”
Height: 0.48”
Width: 0.16”

Ii have no idea how accurate these really are, but it is the best I have come up with. If you find something better, please let me know. In the mean time, here are the results of using the dimensions provided. The first image is of my “model” sail from roughly the same perspective as the Gato photo above. The second one shows it from various perspectives, and the last one shows the entire ship in it's rough state and "painted".
Attachment:
04-GreenlingSail1.jpg
04-GreenlingSail1.jpg [ 25.66 KiB | Viewed 4051 times ]

Attachment:
05-GreenlingSail2.jpg
05-GreenlingSail2.jpg [ 73.15 KiB | Viewed 4051 times ]

Attachment:
06-Greenling-painted03.jpg
06-Greenling-painted03.jpg [ 52.05 KiB | Viewed 4051 times ]

I hope this helps, and good luck with whatever you end up doing.

CHEERS!!!

_________________
Completed:
1/350 USS Missouri (BB-63) * 1/350 USS England (DE-635) * "Underway Personnel Transfer" Diorama

In Progress:
1/350 USS Bennington (CV-20)
1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:51 pm 
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Awesome sir, that is information and then some!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:00 pm 
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You are most welcome krgf15, but I must apologize as I just noticed a small error. The height of the large sails (according to my estimation method) is 14.2' high instead of 13.9' like I reported, which is the height of the smaller sails. At 1/350 scale this would be 0.49" instead of 0.48". Not even noticeable, but what's right is right. :smallsmile:

CHEERS!

_________________
Completed:
1/350 USS Missouri (BB-63) * 1/350 USS England (DE-635) * "Underway Personnel Transfer" Diorama

In Progress:
1/350 USS Bennington (CV-20)
1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:51 pm 
Many models of USS THRESHER have inaccuracies because of its being the first ship in this new class. Having been planned in 1956 the designed tried to incorporate a "hull of revolution" (a round hull with no structural deck above the casing). Many people do not know that THRESHER had three retractable PUFFs arrays. Also THRESHER never was fitted with a J-damped seven-blade propeller. She always had the original five-blade speed prop with symmetrical blades. There are many other issues that modelers assume THRESHER had and so they include this in their rendition of THRESHER however my research and discovery regarding this ship runs very deep as I served on her sister ship, the USS DACE. I also spoke with ADM Dean Axene who was THRESHER'S first CO regarding my 1:48 scale model and he told me it was completely accurate in all details. Please e-mail me for any further explanation or details you might want about this great ship. jaroushey@hotmail.com.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:52 pm 
50 years ago, the worst peace time submarine disaster in USN history. USS Thresher lost on test dive after yard work, April 10, 1963. 129 military and civilian personnel lost.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:44 pm 
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And some new insights as to how it may have happened...
http://www.navytimes.com/article/20130404/NEWS/304040021/50-years-later-look-what-really-sank-Thresher
and https://www.designed4submariners.com/Thresher_Loss_Analysis.html

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Tom Dougherty
Researcher for: "Azorian: The Raising of the K-129" DVD
http://www.projectjennifer.at/
"Project Azorian: The CIA and the Raising of the K-129" Book
http://www.usni.org/store/catalog-fall-2012/project-azorian


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:25 am 
So what's new in this? I was on the Permit and don't see anything in here I hadn't heard in the 1980's.


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