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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:30 pm 
Bill Morrison wrote:
ssn705 wrote:
I love that they continue to put out 1/350 subs, but why not a JULIETT or ECHO or CHARLIE etc. If they drop a PARCHE, I'm sure it'll be a great seller, but how about YANKEE STRETCH or DELTA STRETCH I/II. Yes, I do want it all :) I'll keep buying what they put out anyway.

Cheers,

Dave


Dave,

Have you considered making your request to Vladimir at Micro-Mir? He is always looking for new ideas.

Bill


Dave,

I made this request to Vladimir last night. He stated that they will start looking at projects involving the early nuclear Soviet boats.

Bill


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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 1:21 am 
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Mikro Mir's releasing a 1/144 Sturgeon in July: https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10786825

Hull will be FRP (fibreglass-reinforced plastic).

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 7:45 am 
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It’s already available to order. I provided MikroMir with Greg Sharpe drawings for both the Sturgeon and Los Angeles class, which is also planned for 1/144 later this year. The model is “as built” 637 short hull, with no towed array or topside sonar/intercept domes added later. I don’t know if they plan a long hull version.

The test shot photos I have look like polystyrene hull pieces, not GRP. Where did you get the fiberglass hull information? The test had a modest number of parts, and no photo etch pieces. See photo.

One aspect that I am not so thrilled about is that the screw is a hub (leftmost sprue) with seven individual blades (2nd sprue from the right, 3 blades each at top and bottom) that have to be butt glued onto the hub. They also did this with their Mike and Papa subs. The smooth hubs on those had no indication as to blade attachment locations or angles. I would have preferred a single cast piece. Room for a good aftermarket piece there.


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File comment: MikroMir 1/144 scale Sturgeon kit parts
IMG_0716 (2).jpg
IMG_0716 (2).jpg [ 92.85 KiB | Viewed 2103 times ]

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 1:15 pm 
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The test shot photos I have look like polystyrene hull pieces, not GRP. Where did you get the fiberglass hull information?


In the description in the link I posted ;)

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 4:47 pm 
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Okay. We will see if they are correct on HobbySearch. Up to now, MikroMir has been strictly a styrene injection molding outfit. FRP (aka GRP- Glass Reinforced Plastic) requires different adhesives than polystyrene. Gluing parts to the hull will require cyanoacrylate or 2 part epoxy. I notice that HobbySearch price of $129 is at the high end of prices for this kit. This site is considerably less expensive and lists it as a plastic kit.
https://plastic-models-store.com/mikro-mir-144-030-1144-ssn-sturgeon-scale-plastic-model-kit

I noticed the HobbySearch web site also mentions that it had the S3G reactor, which it did not. Two S3G reactors were employed solely on SSRN Triton. The Sturgeons had the S5W, as did the Skipjacks, Permits, and the 41 Polaris SSBN. And the sponsor was Mrs. Everett Dirksen, not Darksen. Lost in Translation.

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 5:05 pm 
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Hobby Search doesn't write its own descriptions - it just posts the autotranslated version of whatever the manufacturer gives them.

As for the kit's actual material, I can only say that the photo shows the hull to be distinctly lighter in colour, even accounting for the curved nature, than the other parts. I agree that it's out of character for Mikro Mir to make the hull this way, but they also haven't made many this large before.

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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 10:10 pm 
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Tom Dougherty wrote:
It’s already available to order. I provided MikroMir with Greg Sharpe drawings for both the Sturgeon and Los Angeles class, which is also planned for 1/144 later this year. The model is “as built” 637 short hull, with no towed array or topside sonar/intercept domes added later. I don’t know if they plan a long hull version.

The test shot photos I have look like polystyrene hull pieces, not GRP. Where did you get the fiberglass hull information? The test had a modest number of parts, and no photo etch pieces. See photo.

One aspect that I am not so thrilled about is that the screw is a hub (leftmost sprue) with seven individual blades (2nd sprue from the right, 3 blades each at top and bottom) that have to be butt glued onto the hub. They also did this with their Mike and Papa subs. The smooth hubs on those had no indication as to blade attachment locations or angles. I would have preferred a single cast piece. Room for a good aftermarket piece there.



Yes, the screw looks pretty high in the awfulness department! And I'll certainly be responding though I'll have to wait until one of you lot get it and report back the hull trailing edge diameter to insure my screw integrates well. Also releasing a 1/144 Permit/Thresher 7-blader here soon (Modelsvit kit), so the Sturgeon will fit right in.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:58 am 
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Regarding the screw. Turns out it’s worse than that.
Six blades instead of seven. Totally incorrect.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:10 pm 
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KIT UPDATE. 7/5
I now have one of the kits in hand. It comes in a very big, oblong box. It is an “as built”, short hull Sturgeon, bereft of towed array equipment and topside sonar, GNATS domes, etc. As mentioned above, the hull is indeed glass reinforced plastic. It has very delicate, correct scribing (according to the Greg Sharpe plan set). Bottom has a mushroom anchor at the stern and scribed ballast tank and sea chest openings. The mushroom anchor, unfortunately, was never on this class, so it will have to be sanded off. Missing are the sacrificial zincs near the stern, at this scale, those are noticeable. Fortunately, they are very easy to add with styrene strips. Careful painting will be necessary to keep from filling in the shallow scribing. I will use my airbrush for sure. There is a prominent casting seam half way down the hull and it goes all around the hull; that will need some work to eliminate.

Everything else is polystyrene. The bow is separate and comes in two “half bow” sections (why did they create another seam this way?). Same for the sail, port and starboard pieces with again very light scribing. Sail dive planes, correct shape for Sturgeons, rudders, stern planes and the vertical end plates for the stern planes. Masts look decent. The sail pieces, when glued together, have some misalignments and gaps which need to be addressed. Nothing that can't be handled, but at this price point I would expect a better casting job in polystyrene.

The propeller (screw) comes with only six blades instead of seven. No US SSN ever had six blades. You can either try to fabricate a seventh blade or buy an aftermarket seven blade propeller (Mulsanne Mike on EBay has 1/144 3D printed,7 blade J props that are absolutely perfect. On this board, he goes by Woodstock74.). The propeller hub has no markings for blade placement. This screw system with separate blades and no markings is a “feature” of the latest Mikromir sub kits, also found on their 1/350 Russian Mike and Papa models. Mulsanne Mike has you covered there as well.

Frankly, the screw is the biggest issue I see with this kit. They were given detailed plans for this class, and starting with the Skipjack class onward, US SSNs and SSBNs had either five or seven blade screws. There are multiple photos of the seven blade damped J propellers available. Fortunately we have very good solutions available as described above, but for me, it doesn’t excuse this mistake by MikroMir, especially on an expensive kit.

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Researcher for: "Project Azorian”
https://www.amazon.com/Azorian-Raising-K-129-Michael-White/dp/B008QTU7QY
"Project Azorian: The CIA and the Raising of the K-129" Book
https://www.usni.org/press/books/project-azorian


Last edited by Tom Dougherty on Thu Jan 18, 2024 11:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:53 pm 
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Tom Dougherty wrote:
KIT UPDATE. 7/5
I now have one of the kits in hand. It comes in a very big, oblong box. It is an “as built”, short hull Sturgeon, bereft of towed array equipment and topside sonar, GNATS domes, etc. As mentioned above, the hull is indeed glass reinforced plastic. It has very delicate, correct scribing (according to the Greg Sharpe plan set). Bottom has a mushroom anchor at the stern and scribed ballast tank and sea chest openings. The mushroom anchor, unfortunately, was never on this class, so it will have to be sanded off. Careful painting will be necessary to keep from filling in the shallow scribing. I will use my airbrush for sure. There is a prominent casting seam half way down the hull and it goes all around the hull; that will need some work to eliminate.

Everything else is polystyrene. The bow is separate and comes in two “half bow” sections (why did they create another seam this way?). Same for the sail, port and starboard pieces with again very light scribing. Sail dive planes, correct shape for Sturgeons, rudders, stern planes and the vertical end plates for the stern planes. Masts look decent.

The propeller (screw) comes with only six blades instead of seven. No US SSN ever had six blades. You can either try to fabricate a seventh blade or buy an aftermarket seven blade propeller (Mulsanne Mike on EBay has 1/144 3D printed,7 blade J props that are absolutely perfect. On this board, he goes by Woodstock74.). The propeller hub has no markings for blade placement. This screw system with separate blades and no markings is a “feature” of the latest Mikromir sub kits, also found on their 1/350 Russian Mike and Papa models. Mulsanne Mike has you covered there as well.

Frankly, the screw is the biggest issue I see with this kit. They were given detailed plans for this class, and starting with the Skipjack class onward, US SSNs and SSBNs had either five or seven blade screws. There are multiple photos of the seven blade damped J propellers available. Fortunately we have very good solutions available as described above, but for me, it doesn’t excuse this mistake by MikroMir, especially on an expensive kit.


Just sent you an email.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:14 pm 
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I'll be sending these off to Tom so he can preview them for us:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:58 pm 
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Anyone know anything about the BLA-4 mast on the Sturgeons? Like, any more images? And anything about when it was first deployed, etc.?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:34 am 
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It’s a Electronic Countermeasures Antenna System (AN/BLA-4). I’m not sure when it was deployed, but it is known that the previous Thresher/Permit class (SCB-188) had limited room in the small sail for masts. So from materials dated back in the 1970’s, it may have been originally in the Sturgeons. However, the last of the Permits had larger sails.

Electric Boat was asked to redesign the Permits and the result was the SCB-188A, with a larger sail and redesigned propulsion spaces, which was enough of a change that SCB-188A was designated the Sturgeon class.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:39 am 
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This is a quick review (okay, not so quick...) of the new MikroMir 1/144 Sturgeon class kit. The kit consists of a large, fiberglass hull and two sprue of polystyrene parts. The model builds up to a large (25-26 inches long) representation of the "as built", short hull Sturgeon class. Essentially this is SSN 637, USS Sturgeon, as she slid down the ways at Electric Boat in 1966. The hull is GRP (glass reinforced fiberglass). It has a very noticeable raised "lip" seam where the two half hull pieces are joined together (see photo). I used wet sand paper (400 & 600 grades) to carefully remove the raised join line. I employed a tip that I had received a while back from Don Preul, Curator of the US Naval Academy Museum. Sand at a 45 degree angle to the seam, alternating the strokes front to back and back to front. This helps avoid flattening the hull at the seam. I may have to use some light putty to smooth things along the sanded join line. BTW, I should mention that the GRP gives off a rather strong smell as you sand it. Definitely use wet sandpaper to keep the GRP dust down!

The hull has delicate scribing. In some cases, it was so shallow that I carefully rescribed details with multiple light passes of my scribing tool. Some of the rescribing I did was at the top side bow fittings and hatches, etc., and the torpedo tube shutters. Any mistakes were filled in with light putty. The GRP hull also has a molded on "mushroom" anchor at the rear of the hull. Very nice, but would that the Sturgeons had mushroom anchors, which they did NOT! So, if you want to be accurate, sand that off as well. CAUTION! You will have to be careful not to ruin the steep, marked hull curvature in this area. Take your time and check the shape frequently as you go. The various ballast tank lower vents are simply lightly scribed oblongs in the GRP hull. I would have hoped at this scale and price that maybe some photoetch vents would have been included, along with some round strainers for the seawater intakes and outlets. Same for the upper air ballast tank escape vents. In fact, there is no photoetch sheet with the kit.

Since this is an "as built" Sturgeon class kit, it lacks the towed array "hump" and deploy equipment on the hull installed later, as well as the dome at the topside rear of the hull. You can always add these if you desire with scratch building

The polystyrene parts are on four separate sprues. The bow nose cap is two halves that have to be glued together (why?? Another seam to address). The sail is two halves, and there are small indentations up the sides where you can place thin wire "hand grabs". I have a tool that makes these, as it's a "roll your own" project, with none provided in the kit. But a word of caution. I believe these were removable grabs, as there are plenty of photos where they are absent. I have seen them on port or starboard sides in some Sturgeon class photos on Navsource, and the rungs lead up to the bridge cockpit. There are also two additional sets of indentations for handles, port and starboard, near the aft end of the sail. These are fictional. Fill them in with putty. The upper sail "cap" is a separate piece, with scribed in, housed masts. There are also a set of masts and placement instructions in the directions. BUT, there is no separate, alternative sail "cap" provided with insert holes for the masts. So if you want your masts raised, get our your drill bits and pinvise to go to work drilling on the sail cap. Annoying...

You have sail planes, rudders and stern planes (with the hinged area scribed in, again, probably need to be made more prominent by scribing) with the distinctive Sturgeon class "end plates" for the stern planes in separate polystyrene halves. These are all in two halves that have to be glued together, which is a plus at this scale in that they give some scale thickness to the pieces. Now, when you glue these together, you can use your Plastic Weld or other model glues, like Testors that soften and slightly melt the polystyrene. BUT, when you attach the polystyrene pieces to the GRP hull, you will have to use cyanoacrylate or 2 part epoxy.

Now we come to the propeller (aka, the screw). It has an unmarked hub piece and six blades. Not the correct seven blades!!! Now, the previous MikroMir 1/350 Sturgeon kits (short hull, long hull, Parche) had the correct photo etch 7 blade propeller. How this ended up with only six blades is puzzling, to say the least. The kit blades provided do a very decent job of replicating the correct 3 dimensional curved shapes, but there are only six of them. Sigh. I had sent them a copy of the Greg Sharpe 637 drawings, and they already had done smaller scale models of this class correctly. I suppose you could try to fabricate a 7th blade, but is is a 3 dimensional complex, curved shape. You will also have to then calculate where to place the blades on the hub (51.4 degrees apart), which is unmarked (even for the wrong six blades, there are no blade placement indicators). And, the blades are meant to be butt glued onto the hub, not the best way to do insure adhesion.

My advice is as follows:
1.) Remove the hub and the six blades from the sprue.
2.) Find the nearest trash can.
3.) Deposit the pieces in the can
4.) Get the Mulsanne Mike (Mike Fuller) beautiful,1/144 scale, correctly shaped, 7 blade "J" screw (see above post). These three-D printed screws save the kit! You will have to center and drill a hole in the blunt stern to accept the shaft; not a difficult task. Trust me, you will be much happier with the results and save yourself a lot of tedious work.

This seems to be the latest trend with MikroMir in submarine screws of giving the modeler a set of blades to butt glue to an unmarked propeller hub. They did it on their 1/350 Russian "Mike" class and their Russian "Papa" class subs as well. Which again can be corrected with Mulsanne Mike’s 3-D printed products for those two kits. I should say that I am a huge fan of his entire line of 1/350 scale, printed 3-D screws for submarines. Extremely accurate and much superior to the photoetch or styrene versions provided with kits!! I have bought quite a few sets for both my Mikromir and resin Yankee Modelworks kits. And, no, I don’t own stock in his company.

The Sturgeon kit comes with a nice set of decals with hull numbers, draft markings, and red marker buoy tops. It also has escape trunk DSRV docking markings, but I don't know if they are correct for this class in "as built". They look more like 688 class markings. There is a display stand, which is a clear plastic set of three pieces. To me, it looks ugly, but that's a personal prejudice on my part. The instruction sheet is illustrated but extremely basic, but other than doing a lot of sanding and filling, there aren't that many pieces to assemble. The parts are numbered on the instruction sheet, but not on the sprue themselves. Fortunately, it is not too difficult to figure out which is which.

Addendum to post I forgot to mention the zincs. There are four sacrificial zincs that are placed 45 degrees from the rudder and stern planes at the stern. These are long narrow strips of metal. What do they look like on the model? Not there at all! Fortunately, they are easy to replicate with strip styrene, and should be a dull white in color. Another bobble on this kit.

Overall, you will need to put in some effort to get a decent representation of the Sturgeon from this kit. A lot of what I would consider "unforced errors" that could have made it a much better kit. It's a large scale and a large model, so mistakes in the kit and the build will stand out. I wish that a lot of small items could have been corrected, especially since this can be built into a very nice kit with some effort.

I am a big fan of MikroMir, as they are the only source for many interesting submarine kits. But, I really wish they had done a better job with this foray into larger scales. I am sorry to have to enumerate the issues above, but I have to be honest for my fellow modelers, so they know what is involved. At the kit's price range, I am not sure how well it will sell.

MikroMir had tentative plans for a 688 in this scale (3 feet long!!), and I also sent those plans along with some photos to MikroMir. I know one of the other modelers here who was on that class also sent information to them. Fingers crossed for that product!


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File comment: GRP hull. Seam marked with red arrows
DSC_7433.jpg
DSC_7433.jpg [ 14.83 KiB | Viewed 1629 times ]

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"Project Azorian: The CIA and the Raising of the K-129" Book
https://www.usni.org/press/books/project-azorian


Last edited by Tom Dougherty on Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:09 am 
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Tom Dougherty wrote:
This is a quick review (okay, not so quick...) of the new MikroMir 1/144 Sturgeon class kit. The kit consists of a large, fiberglass hull and two sprue of polystyrene parts. The model builds up to a large (25-26 inches long) representation of the "as built", short hull Sturgeon class. Essentially this is SSN 637, USS Sturgeon, as she slid down the ways at Electric Boat in 1966. The hull is GRP (glass reinforced fiberglass). It has a very noticeable raised "lip" seam where the two half hull pieces are joined together (see photo). I used wet sand paper (400 & 600 grades) to carefully remove the raised join line. I employed a tip that I had received a while back from Don Preul, Curator of the US Naval Academy Museum. Sand at a 45 degree angle to the seam, alternating the strokes front to back and back to front. This helps avoid flattening the hull at the seam. I may have to use some light putty to smooth things along the sanded join line. BTW, I should mention that the GRP gives off a rather strong smell as you sand it. Definitely use wet sandpaper to keep the GRP dust down!

(Snip)

MikroMir had tentative plans for a 688 in this scale (3 feet long!!), and I also sent those plans along with some photos to MikroMir. I know one of the other modelers here who was on that class also sent information to them. Fingers crossed for that product!


Thank you for this excellent review! I purchased the kit based on it as I would really like to have a Sturgeon and this gives me some good idea of what I'm in for. It's also good to know it was based off reliable research and plans. Heaven knows I am now praying for a LA in this scale, never mind a Victor or Akula to go along with them.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:02 am 
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MattFlegal wrote:
Thank you for this excellent review! I purchased the kit based on it as I would really like to have a Sturgeon and this gives me some good idea of what I'm in for. It's also good to know it was based off reliable research and plans.

I think you misunderstand me. Yes, I sent them the Sturgeon class plans, but there are still significant errors in the kit, like the mushroom anchor and the J screw, that are very wrong. So, I would not say that the kit is fully based on drawings and reliable research of the Sturgeon class. Yes, you can build a decent representation of an “as built” short hull Sturgeon from this kit. But you need to pay attention to fixing some prominent details if you want an accurate, large scale representation of the 637 class.

The kit has relatively few parts, but with hull seams and other details to be addressed or fixed, it is not a “shake and bake” kit by any means.

I have the large (3 x 4.5 feet) Sturgeon exterior drawings scanned, so I can send you a digital copy you can print for reference. Those are accurate drawings.

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"Project Azorian: The CIA and the Raising of the K-129" Book
https://www.usni.org/press/books/project-azorian


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:42 pm 
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Tom Dougherty wrote:
MattFlegal wrote:
Thank you for this excellent review! I purchased the kit based on it as I would really like to have a Sturgeon and this gives me some good idea of what I'm in for. It's also good to know it was based off reliable research and plans.

I think you misunderstand me. Yes, I sent them the Sturgeon class plans, but there are still significant errors in the kit, like the mushroom anchor and the J screw, that are very wrong. So, I would not say that the kit is fully based on drawings and reliable research of the Sturgeon class. Yes, you can build a decent representation of an “as built” short hull Sturgeon from this kit. But you need to pay attention to fixing some prominent details if you want an accurate, large scale representation of the 637 class.

The kit has relatively few parts, but with hull seams and other details to be addressed or fixed, it is not a “shake and bake” kit by any means.

I have the large (3 x 4.5 feet) Sturgeon exterior drawings scanned, so I can send you a digital copy you can print for reference. Those are accurate drawings.

That would be most welcome. And I noted the things that need to be tweaked but considering some of the models that I've been building recently even a decent kit with flaws and corrections sounds pretty nice after those!

Thanks again,
Matt


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:28 pm 
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Any chance we can get Woodstock74 to add vortex thingies to his screws, for those of us planning a late model 637?

Scott Weeks

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:28 am 
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Grandahi wrote:
Any chance we can get Woodstock74 to add vortex thingies to his screws, for those of us planning a late model 637?

Scott Weeks


Yes, of course. But as with everything, I need photo documentation. The only thing I've seen on Sturgeon screws that even remotely resembles any sort of vortex attenuation is the blunt screw-boss trailing edge seen here:

https://i.imgur.com/s8wPSed.jpg

I've seen similar on Skipjack 7-blade (and have drawn this up in 1/350 for Skipjacks https://www.ebay.com/itm/265083799890):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/588_Screw_drydock.jpg

So yes, if that's what you're after, I can certainly add that to a 1/144 Sturgeon.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:57 am 
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Grandahi wrote:
Any chance we can get Woodstock74 to add vortex thingies to his screws, for those of us planning a late model 637?

Scott Weeks


As I mentioned above, it is the 1966 “as built” USS Sturgeon in the kit. In order to do a late model, you will need to lengthen the hull, add a dome aft (I believe this is the WLR-9A) and a towed array hull fairing, tube, tube support structure and deployment tube on the port side. I have never seen a vortex attenuators hub on a 637 class screw.

As far as lengthening the MikroMir 1/144 Sturgeon hull, it is about 1/8 inch thick glass reinforced resin (GRP), not polystyrene. Not impossible, but a tougher job to lengthen than if it were polystyrene.

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https://www.amazon.com/Azorian-Raising-K-129-Michael-White/dp/B008QTU7QY
"Project Azorian: The CIA and the Raising of the K-129" Book
https://www.usni.org/press/books/project-azorian


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