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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:31 pm 
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Vepr157 wrote:

You basically three options in 1/350: the old Dragon kit, and the newer Riich and Hobby Boss kits.

In terms of accuracy, I think the Riich is the best


Agree with you Jacob :thumbs_up_1: , but Riich's propeller is too big

Here is my vision of the 3 LA flight , all are Riich models (except ASDS on Charlotte come from Hobby Boss kit):

Image

Best regards
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:51 pm 
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Nice job, Pierre! The weathering is really good.

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 Post subject: Question reference props
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:38 am 
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I've noticed on all the LA Class sub models that the props are swept back a little but haven't noticed this on actual pictures of exposed props. What gives?

Kerry

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:09 am 
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The blades are skewed back at the tips. There is a lot of technical detail about the specific design details of the props that are still classified. There aren't all that many pictures of an LA prop available. You need a bit of an oblique view to see the skew.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:50 pm 
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Thanks for some clarification Tom. I have seen the picture you posted and had a hard time seeing it with my Mk-1 eyeball. So the "tips" are swept back and not the complete blade? I will modify my 688s to reflect that.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:23 pm 
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Focus on the blade at the 3 o'clock position. The "tip" is the outer 2/3 - 3/4 or so, so a significant amount.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:24 am 
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Thanks Tracy, it's hard to see it but the more I stare at it I can make it out. So then, the "angle" on the props for the current models (HB,DML,Riich) are correct?

Kerry

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:21 pm 
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More photos (and other screws for reference).

American:
https://imgur.com/a/IQBOi

Russian:
https://imgur.com/a/t6UjU

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:34 am 
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Thanks VEPR, I had seen the American images but not the Russian one, very cool!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:58 am 
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I have 2 question for you 688 buffs. Im building the 1/700 scale 688 from Hobby Boss.

1) The tail fins (horizontal) have these stabilizers on them - real submarine never had them, correct? Should I cut these off? (sorry dont know correct terms for them, im more of a ship guy).

2) Painting the original Los Angeles 668 - any tips on the correct scheme Flight 1 boat? Which options are there? Mainly regarding the levels where antifouling red goes - up to waterline all around, mid point of the sub, and what happens to the bow - radar tip - is that painted also same manner as hull, or differently?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:01 am 
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pascalemod wrote:
I have 2 question for you 688 buffs. Im building the 1/700 scale 688 from Hobby Boss.

1) The tail fins (horizontal) have these stabilizers on them - real submarine never had them, correct? Should I cut these off? (sorry dont know correct terms for them, im more of a ship guy).

2) Painting the original Los Angeles 668 - any tips on the correct scheme Flight 1 boat? Which options are there? Mainly regarding the levels where antifouling red goes - up to waterline all around, mid point of the sub, and what happens to the bow - radar tip - is that painted also same manner as hull, or differently?


It really depends on which 688 class you’re building as to stern plane setup.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:29 am 
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pascalemod wrote:
I have 2 question for you 688 buffs. Im building the 1/700 scale 688 from Hobby Boss.

1) The tail fins (horizontal) have these stabilizers on them - real submarine never had them, correct? Should I cut these off? (sorry dont know correct terms for them, im more of a ship guy).

2) Painting the original Los Angeles 668 - any tips on the correct scheme Flight 1 boat? Which options are there? Mainly regarding the levels where antifouling red goes - up to waterline all around, mid point of the sub, and what happens to the bow - radar tip - is that painted also same manner as hull, or differently?


You're correct that the Los Angeles class never had end plates (the stabilizers) on their stern planes. I blame the movie The Hunt for Red October, where the Dallas erroneously had these end plates.

Your paint scheme depends on the era and the stage in the individual boat's service life. When launched, they were painted red up to the waterline and had the white markings outlining the hatches and the number identifying the particular submarine. In service, they were only painted red from the keel to the centerline, and above the centerline they were black. The sonar dome was almost always painted black and the only markings were the draft markers near the waterline (the little tick marks with numbers next to them)

Starting probably around 2000, submarines started to adopt an all-black paint scheme. So if you're going for an '80s or '90s look: red below centerline. More modern: all-black or (in a few cases) dark grey below the centerline or waterline.

Also, I usually paint the sonar dome in a lighter grey because the fiberglass dome usually weathers to a lighter shade than the hull, even though they both start off as black. I do the same with the small sonar window on the leading edge of the sail.

Jacob

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:43 am 
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Vepr157 wrote:
pascalemod wrote:
I have 2 question for you 688 buffs. Im building the 1/700 scale 688 from Hobby Boss.

1) The tail fins (horizontal) have these stabilizers on them - real submarine never had them, correct? Should I cut these off? (sorry dont know correct terms for them, im more of a ship guy).

2) Painting the original Los Angeles 668 - any tips on the correct scheme Flight 1 boat? Which options are there? Mainly regarding the levels where antifouling red goes - up to waterline all around, mid point of the sub, and what happens to the bow - radar tip - is that painted also same manner as hull, or differently?


You're correct that the Los Angeles class never had end plates (the stabilizers) on their stern planes. I blame the movie The Hunt for Red October, where the Dallas erroneously had these end plates.

Your paint scheme depends on the era and the stage in the individual boat's service life. When launched, they were painted red up to the waterline and had the white markings outlining the hatches and the number identifying the particular submarine. In service, they were only painted red from the keel to the centerline, and above the centerline they were black. The sonar dome was almost always painted black and the only markings were the draft markers near the waterline (the little tick marks with numbers next to them)

Starting probably around 2000, submarines started to adopt an all-black paint scheme. So if you're going for an '80s or '90s look: red below centerline. More modern: all-black or (in a few cases) dark grey below the centerline or waterline.

Also, I usually paint the sonar dome in a lighter grey because the fiberglass dome usually weathers to a lighter shade than the hull, even though they both start off as black. I do the same with the small sonar window on the leading edge of the sail.

Jacob


Im doing an early 688 as launched but - operational. Ie without hatch markings and without the “688” on the sail - I hear they usually display those when in port and remove when operating. The boat will be without the tiles, so basically a cold war era 688 is what Im after. Based on that lower red hull on centerline, black dome, no markings of any kind except for draft markings. Makes sense?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:10 pm 
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pascalemod wrote:
Im doing an early 688 as launched but - operational. Ie without hatch markings and without the “688” on the sail - I hear they usually display those when in port and remove when operating. The boat will be without the tiles, so basically a cold war era 688 is what Im after. Based on that lower red hull on centerline, black dome, no markings of any kind except for draft markings. Makes sense?


Sounds good! By the way, the first few 688s did not have towed arrays at launch. They were added later, and while I haven't been able to determine when, by about 1984 all 688s had towed arrays. So if you're doing a really early 688, sand down the blister on the starboard side. I would recommend trying to find pictures of the specific boat you want to build and checking if it had a towed array early on.

Jacob

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:46 am 
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Vepr157 wrote:
pascalemod wrote:
Im doing an early 688 as launched but - operational. Ie without hatch markings and without the “688” on the sail - I hear they usually display those when in port and remove when operating. The boat will be without the tiles, so basically a cold war era 688 is what Im after. Based on that lower red hull on centerline, black dome, no markings of any kind except for draft markings. Makes sense?


Sounds good! By the way, the first few 688s did not have towed arrays at launch. They were added later, and while I haven't been able to determine when, by about 1984 all 688s had towed arrays. So if you're doing a really early 688, sand down the blister on the starboard side. I would recommend trying to find pictures of the specific boat you want to build and checking if it had a towed array early on.

Jacob


Tbh, Im fairly confused about the state of its rear rudders. According to hobbyboss kits, the VLS has the triangular one, the 688i has triangular one with extra fins added at 5 - 7 oclock on the rear, and original one has these small ones. I didnt understand this and I have added triangular finds (when looking from top) - and yet it may be still wrong.

So, seems like Ive made the VLS here.... But without the tomahawks space in front. :( However HB painting instructions all seem super wonky. Im left in utter confusion, before I starred.


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IMG_7043.jpg
IMG_7043.jpg [ 242.48 KiB | Viewed 1516 times ]
IMG_7047.jpg
IMG_7047.jpg [ 273.24 KiB | Viewed 1516 times ]
IMG_7048.jpg
IMG_7048.jpg [ 186.11 KiB | Viewed 1516 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:35 am 
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I'm not entirely sure I understand your description and what you are asking. The all moving vertical rudders are the same on all three 688 versions; one difference, as noted above, is the early boats were missing the towed array on the starboard stern plane. Hence if you want an early 688 "as built", you need to remove the towed array fairing along the starboard side, as noted by Jacob above. I see you left the towed array fairing on your model. The towed array itself deploys out of the tube on the tip of the starboard stern plane. You might want to drill this out a little bit (not too deep) to make it look like a tube rather than a solid plug. Likewise, the stern planes (which are different shapes than the rudders) have an immovable section forward and a hinged section in the rear; it looks as if you have these on correctly as well. So I am not exactly sure what you are asking about the rudder shapes....

I see the kit comes with "panel lines" running around the hull, as well as a waterline scribing around the upper deck. These should be filled in with putty and smoothed to be level with the hull. Submarine do NOT have panel lines in the hull (think about that... would you want panel lines in a pressure hull?). In the "real world" at Electric Boat, hull sections are joined and welded (with multiple welding passes) together and then the welds are ground down to within 1/16th of an inch of the rest of the hull, to minimize flow noise and friction. The only "panel lines" on a submarine should be the removable panels on the sail (for maintenance of the various masts) the two deck hatches, external torpedo tube shutters and the panel lines on the VLS installations on the later boats. Somewhere in the lost sands of time, back in the early 1990's someone at (Dragon) DML making the masters thought they would put panel lines on the hull, and that mistake has been repeated ad infinitum.

Here's an LA in dry dock; see any panel lines in the hull?
http://navsource.org/archives/08/770/0877201.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/94/1d/52/941d5227b2b1b29f95e0d2e157fe9ea4.jpg

BTW, what IS missing in these kits are ballast tank flood ports on the bottom of the hull. I mean they ARE submarines and these are a vital necessity when attempting to submerge. Also, lose the six unsightly bumps along the centerline aft of the sail. These are very poor & oversized representations of retractable cleats. The exception is the one protruding installation on the bow, which is a sonar installation. I suppose the round circle aft of the sail is supposed to be one of the entry hatches. There should be one forward of the sail as well. Bad news, though, is that the circular hatches have an oblong integral cover to smooth the hull, which you can see here:
http://navsource.org/archives/08/700/0870019.jpg
So it should be an oblong and not a round scribing.

The anhedral fins were on the later 688's, which also had a "ringed propeller" to operate under ice (protect the blade tips). The anhedral were actually at the 4 and 8 o'clock positions, more horizontal than vertical (see below photos). You can see these two items, along with another towed array that was added to the port side on Jacob's propeller page- about 4-5 photos from the bottom of the page.
https://imgur.com/a/IQBOi

Also, here: https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/4huhar/a_los_angeles_class_submarine_in_dry_dock_5514_x/

Tom

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:15 pm 
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I hate to say it, but I served on three '88 class boats, SSN 700, SSN 706, and SSN 752. The color schemes mentioned here are incorrect. First, those white markings were painted and left on only for pre-commissioning Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, and Delta trials. They were painted out prior to commissioning. I also served on two Ohio class SSBNs during the pre-commissioning building phase in which I saw many 688's being built, All were painted black above the waterline and red anti fouling below. I have never seen a new boat's sonar dome being painted anything other that black above the waterline, red below.


Yes, I have seen PACFLT submarines painted solid black top to bottom due to water sanitation requirements throughout the West Coast coastal states. No submarine that I have ever seen has had either black or gray sonar domes and bows.


I served in the SubForce on both coasts, seeing over 50 boats out of the water.


Bill


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:01 pm 
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Quote:
I have never seen a new boat's sonar dome being painted anything other that black above the waterline, red below.


I have seen that scheme, but also unpainted domes as well.

Here's one as you describe: http://navsource.org/archives/08/700/0870213.jpg

Here are examples of the dome not being painted:
http://navsource.org/archives/08/770/0877201.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0871001.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/94/1d/52/941d5227b2b1b29f95e0d2e157fe9ea4.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0875512.jpg

I think the sonar domes may look gray colored due to their being GRP and not metal, and that weathers differently. Hence the above paint advice.
Here: http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0871423.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0871603.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0869401.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0870320.jpg

Also, do you mean black to half way down and red the other half, or red at the waterline? I suspect you mean the former. I know the red was extended up for many of the launching photos, but usually operational it was half & half.

Badly in need to a fresh paint job: http://navsource.org/archives/08/701/0872331.jpg

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:49 am 
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Tom Dougherty wrote:
I'm not entirely sure I understand your description and what you are asking.
Tom


Have you seen the HobbyBoss 1/350 early 688? The stabilizers are small and squarish. That's what I meant. I wasn't aware they were ALL identical.

See attached on top.

As far as I understand I have the hull panel lines that had to be filled, which I did not - that's too late for now, sub is already painted and has water markings added--- Ill probably go back and redo this part at great cost to my sanity.

Thanks for the tips. I think Im covered now. For my 1/350 LA class Ill build the VLS with the proper smoothed lines from the start. Cheers. :thumbs_up_1:


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hb83530_3 (1).jpg [ 35.23 KiB | Viewed 1449 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:49 pm 
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Another small question I havent seen adressed on this thread. The actual waterline.

The boat is - more or less - cylindrical shaped. But it doesnt sit evenly in water on many pics, it is stern heavy - is this because its like that by design or what exactly is the reason? It always seems to be nose up a little bit, rear decks awash sooner then it tapers down to the screw.

Is it optical illusion or it really does sit lower on stern and I need to account for that making the muck line? Appreciate some help here too...)

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