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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:30 pm 
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Pascalemod,

So we're all on the same page:

All 688s have the same upper and lower rudders (these are all-moving). All 688s also have the same stern/horizontal stabilizers (the fixed part of the two horizontal control surfaces) and stern planes (the moving part of the two horizontal control surfaces).* This is what the stern of a standard early 688 looks like,

https://i.imgur.com/euVzTBb.png

There are no vertical stabilizers (usually called end plates) mounted to the ends of the 688s' stern stabilizers. The earlier Sturgeon class had these, but for some reason (possibly caused by the movie The Hunt for Red October) many models incorrectly include them on the 688s. This is what the end plates look like on a Sturgeon class submarine,

https://i.imgur.com/zrxwcab.jpg

All 688Is (and the Memphis) additionally have "dihedral" fins about 3/4 the way down the hull and forward of the stern stabilizers.** They are quite different in shape to what Hobby boss provides. Other than the addition of these fins, all 688 sterns are identical.*

https://i.imgur.com/JAMZ9WR.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GwzfFzA.jpg

I hope this clears things up.

Jacob

*You only see variation in the number of towed arrays, and on some boats, extra little "pods" for the WSQ-9. But these are pretty minor variations. Early 688s would have only a single towed array tube on the port stabilizer.

** They really should be called anhedral fins, but dihedral is the official Navy terminology

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:36 am 
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Vepr157 wrote:
Pascalemod,

So we're all on the same page:

All 688s have the same upper and lower rudders (these are all-moving). All 688s also have the same stern/horizontal stabilizers (the fixed part of the two horizontal control surfaces) and stern planes (the moving part of the two horizontal control surfaces).* This is what the stern of a standard early 688 looks like,

https://i.imgur.com/euVzTBb.png



Vepr, we are on this bit! But my next question was the waterline (as per your pic, thanks for that).
Do all LA classs boats sit lower by the stern, so the muck line is NOT parallel to the red lower half of the hull it seems. Can you confirm this and why this is?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:13 am 
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The original 688's (Flight 1) sat on the surface with the stern noticeably lower than the bow when docked or underway very slowly. At speed the bow are tends to lower itself into the water.
http://navsource.org/archives/08/700/0869610.jpg
http://navsource.org/archives/08/700/0868822.jpg

With the addition of the VLS system for the Tomahawk missiles in the bow ballast tank area, the bow of the (so called) Flight 2 & 3 sit in the water with a bit more level bow to stern aspect.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0875316.jpg

The first 688 to have the VLS was Providence SSN 719, and the VLS hatch configuration (each side has 3 inboard and 3 outboard) is unique to this boat only. The rest of the flight 2 & all of the flight 3 have the 4 inboard, 2 outboard arrangement. You can see the VLS hatches here in the bow area just aft of the sonar dome:
http://navsource.org/archives/08/701/0872101.jpg

The VLS is the distinguishing external feature between Flight 1 & Flight 2. Flight 3 has the VLS and the sail planes were removed and replaced with retractable bow planes. Unlike previous classes with bow planes, these fold in, not up. As discussed before, the Flight 3s (starting at San Juan, SSN 751) also got the 2 anhedrals (which have countermeasure dispensers at their tips) to mitigate snap roll during submerged turns, and the ring propeller for ice operations. Internally, these boats had the new BSY-1 integrated combat sensor suite.
A subtle change was the necessity to relocate the upper ballast tank riser vents to accommodate the VLS system. The screened vents are alongside the hull (see photo)
http://navsource.org/archives/08/770/0877112.jpg

As noted above, the only numbers on the submarine after commissioning are the draft numbers; all hull numbers are painted over.

As noted above by VEPR, the anhedrals on the Hobby Boss kit are woefully wrong. HB does have a tendency to skip detailed research and make s**t up. These is also true of their aircraft kits (almost but not quite right, in several cases).
The correct anhedral installation is highly visible here https://i.imgur.com/2l2f8No.jpg

Just to add to the fun, at least on of the earlier 688's (Memphis) also got the anhedrals, probably as a test case.
Here is a pretty accurate model of a Flight 3 688, complete with anhedrals and ring propeller:
http://navsource.org/archives/08/pdf/0877242.pdf

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:52 am 
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Tom Dougherty wrote:
The original 688's (Flight 1) sat on the surface with the stern noticeably lower than the bow when docked or underway very slowly. At speed the bow are tends to lower itself into the water.
http://navsource.org/archives/08/700/0869610.jpg
http://navsource.org/archives/08/700/0868822.jpg



Thanks Tom, so I was right building it with slight tilt as far as muckline goes. Very useful as mine is in fact an early boat without tiles. I think I got very good info here for the SSN 721 Chicago build, too bad not many pics of it here. Chicago is a Flight 1 boat right?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:09 am 
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Quote:
Chicago is a Flight 1 boat right?


Umm, no. She is a Flight 2. She has 12 VLS tubes in her bow, but still has sail planes.
If you look hard you can see the VLS tube hatches in the enlargement of this photo. The giveaway is also the relocation of the forward ballast tank riser vents to the sides of the upper hull.
http://navsource.org/archives/08/701/0872114.jpg

SSN 719 on are Flight 2s, and there is a big skip in SSN numbers to the last Flight 2, SSN 750. The numbering gets a bit off as Ohio SSBNs were assigned the numbers from 726 to 749, although only the numbers to 743 were used. The start of the Flight 3 is SSN 751.
Here's a handy cheat sheet on which subs are what Flight number: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Los_Angeles-class_submarines

As you can see in the listing, most of the Flight 1 are decommissioned and some broken up. Flight 2 & 3 are still active, with the exception of Miami, which was decommed after a fire was set (on purpose) by a shipyard worker to get off work. He got 17 years in prison and owes the Navy $400 million.

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http://www.projectjennifer.at/
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http://www.usni.org/store/catalog-fall-2012/project-azorian


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:40 am 
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Cool. So appreciate all the inputs from you guys.

I completed my 1/700 build and will go into 1/350 with this info and built the Flight 2.

Here is the Flight 1 Los Angeles in 1/700 from HobbyBoss with changes to rudders and hull joints.

I modelled her as in dry dock.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:44 pm 
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You're '88 looks great, except for the sonar dome. Your model looks close to two of my old boats; the USS Albuquerque (SSN 706) and USS Dallas (SSN 700). I enjoyed them immensely! I love your paint job!

Bill Morrison


Last edited by William on Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:17 pm 
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William wrote:
You're '88 looks great, except for the sonar dome. You're model looks close to two of my old boats; the USS Albuquerque (SSN 706) and USS Dallas (SSN 700). I enjoyed them immensely! I love your paint job!

Bill Morrison


Thanks! :) What is wrong with the Sonar dome? :-? You mean the line separating it from the rest of the boat? That is intentional, I found out that I had to smooth out the hull joints after the paint job. I didnt want to respray the whole thing as decals were already on it...

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:56 am 
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I have served on three 688 class boats, two Flight 1s and one Flight 3, the USS Albuquerque (SSN 706), USS Dallas (SSN 700), and USS Pasadena (SSN 752). I am also on the SUBASE New London, Groton, CT, where I have seen other 688s in drydock. I have rarely seen a the bow dome painted differently from the rest of the hull. I am sure that there might be exceptions, but I have never seen it.

There is a photo of a 688 undergoing an emergency blow, with the entire bow breaking free of the surface. The hull appears to be all black.

That said, your model is exquisite!

Bill


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:18 pm 
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By the way, what shade of black did you use? It seems to have a tint of gray mixed in. It looks great!

Bill


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:25 am 
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William wrote:
By the way, what shade of black did you use? It seems to have a tint of gray mixed in. It looks great!

Bill


I use the not-so-black Tamiya Nato Black XF69. I find it best for models that need to be black, because it is not so pitch black that it starts to lose all details. I think it is the most accurate color for this scale. It takes in black wash for any kind of dark recesses, and also dry brushes beautifully with something like medium gray for those areas you want to highlight.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:56 am 
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Thanks! I'll give it a try. I have tried mixing my own but have not succeeded in finding a quality shade considering scale effect.

Also, do you plan on mounting your '88 in a drydock?

Bill


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:11 pm 
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Having lived near the New London Sub Base for several years, I would see subs going in and out, and managed to get on the base more than once through some neighbors who were on submarines. The best way I can describe the color is very dark charcoal gray, approaching black- but dull. The submergence in water has an effect on weathering the paint. Hence, I would say the above example looks pretty darn close. They are very black when launched, but the sea has its effects.

Just so you won't obsess over submarine colors, one of the chiefs remarked that for ceremonies (Change of Command, Awards etc.) they would "touch up" the hull above the waterline. He would send a couple of sailors to pick up some Sears black house paint to be rolled on.

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http://www.usni.org/store/catalog-fall-2012/project-azorian


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:24 am 
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William wrote:
Thanks! I'll give it a try. I have tried mixing my own but have not succeeded in finding a quality shade considering scale effect.

Also, do you plan on mounting your '88 in a drydock?

Bill


The reason I havent put any more pics into the Gallery here (except the Hood, that was a test) is I havent finished the dry dock. It needs railings, three cranes (I have them in PE now) and a second dry dock next to it (Carrier sized) without the 4th wall so all picture taking is much easier. I think once that part is done, I will have something nice to present all pics in. Till then I continue to build them one by one. But the LA class worked out wonderful, and I would say on pics they to me often have a brownish black hue. I always see a touch of brown but that is probably photoes or if the boat has rust on it in many places it kind of blends things. Either way, stick with Nato Black and see what results you will get. This is art, not science. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:24 am 
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Tom,

I remember well! I served onboard a total of six boats throughout my career. Besides the three '88s, my first was USS Ethan Allen (SSBN/SSN 608), USS Michigan (SSBN 727)(Gold), and USS Maine (SSBN741)(Blue). I retired from the Maine in '96 as HMCS(SS).


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:13 am 
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Just for you guys, both projects done I asked about here on CASF so you can have a nice little comparison.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:21 pm 
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Hello,

I was just curious if anybody knew of any upgrade kits (not that there is much to upgrade like on a surface ship) available for these ships? I just ordered a Riich kit for the Flight II that I'm going to build into the USS Chicago for a friend. He was the CO of the USS Chicago for a number of years, and recently he was able to get me a tour on an active Virginia class boat, the USS North Carolina. So i'm going to try to build the model as she was when he was the CO as a gift for him.

I saw the posts earlier about the better shaped screws, but and having trouble finding them. Anybody have the direct link or know of any other options available?

Also, are draft markings included in the box? Or do I need to source them elsewhere?

Thanks!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:16 am 
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hondaman117 wrote:
Hello,

I was just curious if anybody knew of any upgrade kits (not that there is much to upgrade like on a surface ship) available for these ships? I just ordered a Riich kit for the Flight II that I'm going to build into the USS Chicago for a friend. He was the CO of the USS Chicago for a number of years, and recently he was able to get me a tour on an active Virginia class boat, the USS North Carolina. So i'm going to try to build the model as she was when he was the CO as a gift for him.

I saw the posts earlier about the better shaped screws, but and having trouble finding them. Anybody have the direct link or know of any other options available?

Also, are draft markings included in the box? Or do I need to source them elsewhere?

Thanks!

Hi, I made the correctly shaped screws for these (and other) ships, you can order them from Naval Models in The Netherlands. For some reason these are not yet on their website, but send and email to info@navalmodels.com

Please let me know when you have success!



Cheers, Maarten

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:20 pm 
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Maarten Schönfeld wrote:
Hi, I made the correctly shaped screws for these (and other) ships, you can order them from Naval Models in The Netherlands. For some reason these are not yet on their website, but send and email to info@navalmodels.com

Please let me know when you have success!

Cheers, Maarten


Thanks! I sent an email so I will see what comes back. On a side note, does anybody know how these look?

https://www.hobbylinc.com/g-factor-la-c ... :350-35018

They are discontinued, but I found one on Ebay and thought about getting it as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:16 am 
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hondaman117 wrote:
Thanks! I sent an email so I will see what comes back. On a side note, does anybody know how these look?

https://www.hobbylinc.com/g-factor-la-c ... :350-35018

They are discontinued, but I found one on Ebay and thought about getting it as well.

Yes, I think this is a brass copy of a bad looking plastic prop. The blade shape is just as bad as the original: no blade twist, blades much too narrow at the root, the sweepback is not correct. I wouldn't spent my money on these G-factor screws.

If they had done their homework and created a good looking screw instead it would have been another matter, but making brass copies of a bad original is not a good idea. For comparison here my screw again.
Attachment:
IMAG1674a.jpg
IMAG1674a.jpg [ 62.48 KiB | Viewed 3184 times ]

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