The Ship Model Forum

Had noticed this pic of the Texas:

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/ ... 5O-001.jpg

Is it possible the Seawolf was painted the same? I haven't seen any photos of the Seawolf with a red belly.

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Picasso with a blade...

Having taken two subs through the new construction phase, I think the paint scheme in this photo is temporary. It looks like a launching ceremony, to me. (before or slightly after launching) The black paint was probably not necessary at this stage of construction, but added to make the boat pretty for the ceremony. I have noticed, and I think it is the general theory behind it, that the black paint was not just from the waterline - up, but extend down far enough around the curve of the hull so that from directly above the ship, all the observer saw was black.

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Carl Musselman
(Formerly Back-Aft Models)



Photobucket
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YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcH4XXgrwKkhbIHgFtIYhAg

Modern subs* are totally black, with no red antifouling.

http://www.news.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=14675
http://www.news.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=14674
http://www.news.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=14673
http://www.news.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=14672

* as off a few years ago; I don't know the exact date.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Tracey, I had seen those images, and I wasn't sure if the hull was all black because it was still under construction and hadn't been painted yet.

Since the Seawolf started out in 1997, would it have sported the red (black upper half and sonar dome, red belly), and later gone to the all black after having come in for maintenance? Also, if the red started mid-way down the hull, how would the diveplanes and aft hor-stabs been painted (all black vs. black top and red undersides)?

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Picasso with a blade...

The non-skid paint is definately different in texture when compared to the very, smooth surface of the entire hull and rest of the upper deck. In fact, non-skid paint is actually very, sharp. I skinned my knuckles pretty deep, once, while working on a deck fitting with a wrench. Ouch! And on top of that, it was a seawater cooling system fitting and it had salty seawater coming out of it. Double Ouch! Stung like a you-know-what!

But, once again, it may not be the texture of the non-skid paint that makes it look different, but more that it was re-painted more often than the rest of the hull.

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Carl Musselman
(Formerly Back-Aft Models)



Photobucket
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YouTube Channel:
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I think Tracy is right. At some point (late 1990's?) the whole boat was painted black.

I got out of the USN in 1995 and took the USS Alexandria SSN-757 through NewCon in 1989-1991. And she had red anti-fouling paint. But, as I was transferring off of her, there was mention that later after commissioning (maybe a year or two) she was going to get a rubber hull coating. Which I believe is applied as thin tiles of rubber all over the hull. (as a sound isolating material) I'm not sure if the whole hull got this rubber layer, or not, but I'd think that the need for an anti-fouling paint would be eliminated. I think that beginning with the Seawolf class, this rubber layer was standard upon construction.

As far as the bottoms of the stern planes...........I'd have to guess that they are black, as well. And it may vary from boat to boat. I've been in the drydocks under three different boats, and I just can't remember what color these were under the stern planes.

Here are a couple of examples of pre-1995 (let's say) hull paint schemes.

USS Miami SSN-755 in 1994
Note the difference in color/tint at the waterline and the red paint ending at the tangent to the curved hull. The sonar domes were made of fiberglass and may have a different texture but still quite smooth, if not more smooth than than the rest of the hull.



I'm not sure which ship this is. I know that the Augusta had trouble with hitting things with her sonar dome and maybe the Greenville as well.

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Carl Musselman
(Formerly Back-Aft Models)



Photobucket
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YouTube Channel:
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That's USS San Francisco, after colliding with an underwater mountain in 2005.

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De quoi s'agit-il?

Horrido: It's very possible. When I said that the US Navy had started painting their subs all black I was talking about something in the last five years or so. I am fairly certain that even the Anhedral planes were black on top at least due to this picture of USS Greenville in drydock:
http://www.cpf.navy.mil/subsite/ehimema ... 25-med.jpg
From http://www.cpf.navy.mil/subsite/ehimema ... mages.html

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Oh, wow! Did all other LA-class have FIVE aft planes like the Seawolf? It wouldn't surprise me that if the anhedral planes were black, so would the ventral plane and the red being restricted to the hull.

Mostly just a curiosity question at this point, as I'd like to do a "current" Seawolf stationed here at Washington St, which apparently means all-black. It'd certainly be fun to try to match that "been at sea" look.

Okay, I think I've got the hull figured out. Just need to gather references on what to do in terms of rails, flags, etc. to add detail to the deck and sail. Eventually, I'd like to set up a display stand based on an actual drydock block set-up as seen in the Greenville images.

I'd like to finish the model based on these images:
http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=71628
http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=48610
http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=48609
http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=47228
http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=47226
http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=47227

What's with the gray panel at the front of the sail, passive sonar? In earlier images, it's more of a very dark rubber color. Also, is that a horn below that panel on the leading edge of the sail?


Thank you very much, I greatly appreciate your help!

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Picasso with a blade...

As far as I know that was a feature of the later boats; it might have been retrofitted to the earlier LAs but I'm no expert.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

No. These were on the Flight III Los Angeles class boats. They helped to overcome a problem with ship handling in high speed turns, in which the submarine would tend to heal over. The ends of the LA sub anhedrals have additional countermeasure dispensers at their ends (reloaded by divers in port).

In the case of the Seawolf class, towed hydrophone arrays are streamed from the anhedrals.

At Electric Boat commisioning ceremony, Seawolf had a 3 toned paint scheme: red to halfway up, a sort of purplish paint to the freeboard waterline, and then black on top. You can see the purplish paint here: http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08002102.jpg
and http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08002127.jpg These photos are before the point at which Seawolf received her anechoic hull treatment (which is in much larger sections than the smaller tiles used on the LA class submarines). By contrast, the Jimmy Carter was finished in all black in 2005.

The Seawolf class are now all black, and the antiskid is quite distinctive. See:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08002126.jpg

As Tracy mentioned, current new US submarines are now coated with anti-foul black paint. This is not the first time that the all black scheme has been used; some Sturgeon class submarines had this scheme at various points, as did some Skipjack class.

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Tom Dougherty
Researcher for: "Project Azorian”
https://www.amazon.com/Azorian-Raising-K-129-Michael-White/dp/B008QTU7QY
"Project Azorian: The CIA and the Raising of the K-129" Book
https://www.usni.org/press/books/project-azorian

I was on Seawolf from 02-07.
It was definitely all black on top, with red marine anti-fouling underneath during that whole time period.
The nonskid is the same color, but reflects light much differently. Since I doubt you reproduce this in a scale model with even the finest grain sand, paint it to look like the pictures.
We always called the two fins at 45 degrees "dihedral" planes instead of "anhedral". If anyone cares. The "heal over" was called a snap-roll.
The grey panel on top front of the sail is rubber to allow the radar to pass through, and the little door underneath is a horn, or "ship's whistle".
The at commissioning pics are not intentionally 3 tone, its just a fresher layer of paint on top, that approaches the waterline because thats all they could reach. EB paints the top before those type ceremonies. The dihedral planes did change from painting to painting, but were most of my time on board.
Jimmy Carter was NOT all black at launch, there are many mislabeled pictures of her online. Many pics of Virgina are labled as JC.

This is our facebook group, got a few pics on here that won't be found elsewhere in Internetland. There is even one of Seawolf painted ALL YELLOW in a covered drydock prior to recieving the MIP (Molded In Place anechoic) coating....

If you have any specific questions, let me know.

I agree there is some confusion and pictures mislabbeled as the Carter. These are pictures of Carter, just after roll-out at EB
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08002304.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08002302.jpg

And are the source of the "all-black" statement.

Trumpeter depicts the pumpjet with 2 sets of stators ahead of the rotor, and no stators behind the rotor. But photos of pumpjets from torpedos show one set of stators behind the rotor. Is trumpeter correct?

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Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.

Are seawolf's bow planes retractable?

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Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.

I'm not a Seawolf expert but you might look at the link below which describes David Merriman's modifications. It will probably have more than you ever wanted to know.

http://www.vabiz.com/d&e/CABAL/R_C'ing%20the%20Trumpeter%201_144%20SEAWOLF%20(SSN21)%20Submarine,%20Part-1%20.htm

Well I got the Trumpeter USS Seawolf in 1/144 and I want to build it as a USS Connecticut, whats the major difference betweeen USS Seawolf and USS Connecticut if any.
Thanks in advance.

A few years back I saw both Seawolf and Connecticut during overhaul periods and it does not appear to me to be any difference between the two.

I'm in the process of building the Trumpeter Sea Wolf after not having built any models in over 20 years. I'm sure my build will have many inaccuracies and builder mistakes, but I sure do like the reference material each of you have been posting.

That rotor/stator configuration is incorrect. I think the correct configuration was one of the things they said not to talk about.
The bow planes on the 'wolf were definetly retractable when they were working.
Conny was the same, but her crew wasn't as good.