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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:44 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Italy
Today i dedicated to the baskets. I spent the whole day on it. I made the drawings to scale, based on the image received by Reigel above, the gave a shape to armonic steel and that was very difficult, both bending it and having all the bendings on the same plane. The i added the net, cut it, made the holes ion the deck and put the pieces in place. Not yet glued. I am very happy with the result.


Attachments:
File comment: My drawing in scale (hopefully) 1/350 of the basket and one of the basket in process
F5AC4BFB-C328-4613-B985-619C730BA406.jpeg
F5AC4BFB-C328-4613-B985-619C730BA406.jpeg [ 98.27 KiB | Viewed 2504 times ]
File comment: The four pieces at the end of the day
B34AD7FE-4F5F-4C59-B46C-562275579CA9.jpeg
B34AD7FE-4F5F-4C59-B46C-562275579CA9.jpeg [ 138.73 KiB | Viewed 2504 times ]
File comment: Manual drilling
F4030141-0E8F-471F-B99D-67E399562A55.jpeg
F4030141-0E8F-471F-B99D-67E399562A55.jpeg [ 246.6 KiB | Viewed 2504 times ]
File comment: The final result
8B6D632F-789F-46C9-9FB5-72F638147509.jpeg
8B6D632F-789F-46C9-9FB5-72F638147509.jpeg [ 299.05 KiB | Viewed 2504 times ]
File comment: Compass to start the hole
9838D9CB-F14D-49F5-BB38-6BF3C0A6AD1E.jpeg
9838D9CB-F14D-49F5-BB38-6BF3C0A6AD1E.jpeg [ 93.82 KiB | Viewed 2504 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:44 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Italy
Today the cross tree extension and the support for 2 booms received their attention. Very useful was the picture of the Arthur Huddell (shown below) that shows how such supports were made.


Attachments:
File comment: Once extended (with a brass photo etched plate), the cross tree needed some thickness
990CFBFD-6F15-4F23-8D77-6F76E974C93E.jpeg
990CFBFD-6F15-4F23-8D77-6F76E974C93E.jpeg [ 76.91 KiB | Viewed 2468 times ]
File comment: And also handrails (really crazy to put them in place)
1E788755-BB8A-4E82-A621-43ADF0D5A371.jpeg
1E788755-BB8A-4E82-A621-43ADF0D5A371.jpeg [ 233.54 KiB | Viewed 2468 times ]
File comment: The boom needed a support to stay in rest position
34351C9C-CE94-42F7-BCA3-FAFCEF33F310.jpeg
34351C9C-CE94-42F7-BCA3-FAFCEF33F310.jpeg [ 395.31 KiB | Viewed 2468 times ]
File comment: And therefore i made them
37AE0270-D949-4FA7-9D4D-86177944176E.jpeg
37AE0270-D949-4FA7-9D4D-86177944176E.jpeg [ 74.36 KiB | Viewed 2468 times ]
File comment: And they appear realistic
34A1CA1D-0BB5-4A5C-AB21-47B80CE78C60.jpeg
34A1CA1D-0BB5-4A5C-AB21-47B80CE78C60.jpeg [ 366.23 KiB | Viewed 2468 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:44 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Italy
Last days and today i worked on the rigging. I added some 1mm rings (cut from a chain) to the king’ s post to simulate the pulleys, i simulated the pulleys at the base of the booms with 1 1/2 ring, passing the wire through one, glueing it with vinylic glue, painting it, and attaching the ring to the wall with the 1/2 ring. Then i glued one part of the wire to the engine and one part to the boom’s top. Quite long and tiring, to be repeated for all booms! Also the chain at the base of the wire that goes to the king’s post was quite challenging. But it overall looks reasonable, even though not so easy to be seen in the photos. What do you think? I know, the chain is supposed to be longer, but i had just 48 chain rings, so no more than 4 could be used for each of the 10 wires. It’s a pity, i know.


Attachments:
1A881C24-BD52-4DB1-BD32-BB126D480676.jpeg
1A881C24-BD52-4DB1-BD32-BB126D480676.jpeg [ 335.64 KiB | Viewed 2433 times ]
File comment: The base of the boom area, with the chain, the 1st wire to the king’s post and the boom and the 2nd wire from the engine to the pulley and to the boom top
516AAEB9-DD15-483B-8BB3-14B469EF409F.jpeg
516AAEB9-DD15-483B-8BB3-14B469EF409F.jpeg [ 390.08 KiB | Viewed 2433 times ]
038783A9-8B04-46ED-B530-9840AB269094.jpeg
038783A9-8B04-46ED-B530-9840AB269094.jpeg [ 115.93 KiB | Viewed 2433 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:44 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Italy
Day devoted to rigging with a final part on weathering. I am pretty satisfied with rigging, that is almost over, luckily. I am quite unsatisfied with the weathering and accept suggestions. In some places (base of the mast) it is reasonable, but it others not. I did everything with a very diluted acrilic Tamiya black and grey. It is my first weathering, so i need to improve much and any comment, even the sharpest is well accepted both here and in private messages


Attachments:
File comment: The lateral weathering, not satisfactory
FD8CC411-50C0-4609-B798-15A5CE131C4C.jpeg
FD8CC411-50C0-4609-B798-15A5CE131C4C.jpeg [ 124.54 KiB | Viewed 2398 times ]
File comment: The base of the mast could be ok, but the doors are not credible
258580DB-9447-4025-B911-B84D08944B79.jpeg
258580DB-9447-4025-B911-B84D08944B79.jpeg [ 115.08 KiB | Viewed 2398 times ]
File comment: The base of the mast here seems almost ok
F3E58DDB-E77D-446A-96BB-CBDF8FA8A195.jpeg
F3E58DDB-E77D-446A-96BB-CBDF8FA8A195.jpeg [ 117.84 KiB | Viewed 2398 times ]
File comment: A real case
B78E2EF4-23F7-4015-8182-DDAE4ACD5FF9.jpeg
B78E2EF4-23F7-4015-8182-DDAE4ACD5FF9.jpeg [ 135.42 KiB | Viewed 2398 times ]
File comment: The Martin Van Buren, with black weathered areas and lines
692BD11E-6FC1-45AA-A2E4-2179893DCBE4.jpeg
692BD11E-6FC1-45AA-A2E4-2179893DCBE4.jpeg [ 102.9 KiB | Viewed 2398 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:52 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:24 pm
Posts: 260
Location: Gateway to the Gorge, Oregon
On Trumpeters Libertys in both 700 & 350, fore and aft of the rear deckhouse on the main deck there looks to a cast set of winches.

Does anyone know if this was standard deck equipment for these locations? And what was their purpose?
I can see the aft most winch assisting in docking. But I also see the aft winch in slightly different locations per ship photos.

The reason I ask, I am trying to make AK-96, and I read where she was fitted with towing engines in order to
transport parts of the first ASBD section dock across the pacific. AK 90-97 were supposedly fitted this way, AK 114-123
as well.
I'd like to know where these engines were located on deck, and what they looked like, if anyone is privy to that info.

From the photos I can find, none are clear enough aft to make a guess.

Thanks,

Paul


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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:44 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Italy
Though i spent many hours on the model, very few progresses are visible. I decided to make my own lifebuoys, doing more or less as car steering wheels. They have an inner steel circle with foam around. So i made a spiral of steel around a 2mm plastic tube and then i added vinilic glue, bit after bit, to give volume. In two days i could not finish four and at least 6 are needed (2 close to the front lifeboats, 2 that are already in place, two close to a rear ladder). Another 2 seem to be between the lifeboats.. Does anybody know how many should they be usually on a Liberty? Ok, it is a stupid question, so many are the different versions, but there was probably a minimum set and i found 6-8 for now.
I also ended the booms positioning and their riggings.
And tried something for washing, better say i gave some transparent cover to start some washing.


Attachments:
File comment: Lifebuoys in process
1B26112C-03D4-4FA7-878C-1D0A917C7649.jpeg
1B26112C-03D4-4FA7-878C-1D0A917C7649.jpeg [ 144.87 KiB | Viewed 2333 times ]
File comment: Winches, rigging and booms almost completed
BA6115A3-D9CA-41F8-84AD-0487CAC395E3.jpeg
BA6115A3-D9CA-41F8-84AD-0487CAC395E3.jpeg [ 342.05 KiB | Viewed 2333 times ]


Last edited by Intreno on Fri May 01, 2020 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:44 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Italy
raggs wrote:
On Trumpeters Libertys in both 700 & 350, fore and aft of the rear deckhouse on the main deck there looks to a cast set of winches.

Does anyone know if this was standard deck equipment for these locations? And what was their purpose?
I can see the aft most winch assisting in docking. But I also see the aft winch in slightly different locations per ship photos.

The reason I ask, I am trying to make AK-96, and I read where she was fitted with towing engines in order to
transport parts of the first ASBD section dock across the pacific. AK 90-97 were supposedly fitted this way, AK 114-123
as well.
I'd like to know where these engines were located on deck, and what they looked like, if anyone is privy to that info.

From the photos I can find, none are clear enough aft to make a guess.

Thanks,

Paul

I am not sure i understood the question. If the winches you mention are the ones highlighted in the drawing below, they were used to manage the booms, like the other winches (overall 10) in that position. In the Trumpeteer 1/350 (o’Brien) i have i do not find winches in excess. Anyway i found a picture of Ak92 of that area before its conversion and the position is the usual one. On the other hand, Ak114 picture after conversion shows them in a different position.
Eugenio


Attachments:
File comment: The ak92 rear part
DF20E2EC-D4D5-45B4-AFC3-553EE51094C4.jpeg
DF20E2EC-D4D5-45B4-AFC3-553EE51094C4.jpeg [ 137.03 KiB | Viewed 2330 times ]
B65D5A6C-167E-4A44-8780-C339FDE91AC3.jpeg
B65D5A6C-167E-4A44-8780-C339FDE91AC3.jpeg [ 287.88 KiB | Viewed 2330 times ]
File comment: In ak114 their position is different
AFA9351F-33C7-421C-B06F-B1B5BA29F40B.jpeg
AFA9351F-33C7-421C-B06F-B1B5BA29F40B.jpeg [ 238.75 KiB | Viewed 2328 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 9:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:24 pm
Posts: 260
Location: Gateway to the Gorge, Oregon
Intreno, if you look close at your pic of AK-91 you'll see part of a winch between the #5 hold and the aft deck house.

Much clearer pic than what I have saved.

This is the cast winch I was referring to. I cannot tell for sure if there is one under the 5" tub aft.

Thanks,

Paul


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 10:00 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:44 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Italy
Indeed i looked in my picture database but that is the best i have. The two pictures i attach below are from other AKs, not part of the range you are interested in. In case they could be of use for you.
Eugenio


Attachments:
9C7D9D92-9EE3-4BF3-8F8C-5BF824C435C3.jpeg
9C7D9D92-9EE3-4BF3-8F8C-5BF824C435C3.jpeg [ 162.5 KiB | Viewed 2304 times ]
21F5ACB3-D301-4CB7-9C40-3923A3514912.jpeg
21F5ACB3-D301-4CB7-9C40-3923A3514912.jpeg [ 107.99 KiB | Viewed 2304 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 4:38 pm 
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Posts: 58
Location: Italy
I do not know why but this model does not want to end. Today (and yesterday) i decided to focus on those devices that are close to the lifeboats and can be seen in the picture below. Indeed i found only one picture (below) showing them uncovered. Anyway using plastic (the drum), brass (the side holders) and nylon (painted in tan colour) i tried to recreate them. My daughter says that none will question if only 10 rounds of rope are done, but i preferred more than 20 since they appear more realistic. Am i wrong?


Attachments:
File comment: Final result
2CF7C177-6A21-43E0-9343-89854C8176AC.jpeg
2CF7C177-6A21-43E0-9343-89854C8176AC.jpeg [ 188.1 KiB | Viewed 2286 times ]
File comment: The circled pieces were my target for today
613B480F-EBC7-4281-819A-0D073A456625.jpeg
613B480F-EBC7-4281-819A-0D073A456625.jpeg [ 259.85 KiB | Viewed 2286 times ]
85A1FD0E-8EA9-4079-8785-2BA11943D35D.jpeg
85A1FD0E-8EA9-4079-8785-2BA11943D35D.jpeg [ 351.35 KiB | Viewed 2286 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 4:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:24 pm
Posts: 260
Location: Gateway to the Gorge, Oregon
Thanks Intreno, from your pic I can see the multiple winches between the #5 hold and the rear deckhouse.
Obviously this is different equipment than the standard Liberty.
I can see where the extra winches suits the AK version of these ships for the extra lift capacity.

The cast winch on the model I was referring to originally will be replaced with these dual winches.
I'm being lead to believe the "towing engines" were located on the stern under the 5" mount.

There is a aft pic of AK-91, but I cant make out whats under the gun tub. Looks to be bigger than the standard winch.

Time to buy a book or two.


Attachments:
ak-91 aft crop.jpg
ak-91 aft crop.jpg [ 36.22 KiB | Viewed 2286 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 8:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:06 am
Posts: 269
Location: Seattle, WA
In response to your question about the winches by the boat davits - please forgive me if your question was much more complicated than my answer -
Those winches and reels are for raising and lowering the boats from the davits - the boat falls. How much line goes on the reels? Enough to get the boat to the water's edge, plus any extra required by you and the designers. Your daughter may take on the challenge to measure the distance to the waterline as compared to the length of one turn of cable on the reel. :-)

And in your last photo, shame on the sailor in the back who is standing in the bight of line that is on the deck. He has his feet in a hazardous position, whether it is wartime or not.

_________________
On the workbench:
1/700 Jouett - JAG
1/700 Lupo - Delphis
1/700 Ulsan - Kobo Hiryu
--and dozens more


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 4:47 pm 
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Posts: 58
Location: Italy
Thanks Rick-H. Indeed on the reels i put between 70 to 100 meters of line (in scale, 20 to 30 cm), therefore enough to get the water’s edge and much more.
Overall the assembly of the winches (thanks for the technical terms, i miss many) by the davits appears a bit oversize, but i do not want to start over again, since those 4 winches took many hours to be completed.
I also spend some time in weathering, using diluted (1 to 10 maybe) black and brushing it again after some hours with just thinner (suggestion by Spyros, that made a beautiful Liberty also visible in the gallery).


Attachments:
File comment: Winches by the boat davits
2565E83A-A427-4632-8AD3-ECFEA212E9F3.jpeg
2565E83A-A427-4632-8AD3-ECFEA212E9F3.jpeg [ 374.64 KiB | Viewed 2258 times ]
File comment: Weathering
9E6D84B5-FFB4-4BC1-BA4E-F1794368FCAB.jpeg
9E6D84B5-FFB4-4BC1-BA4E-F1794368FCAB.jpeg [ 360.72 KiB | Viewed 2258 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2020 1:31 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:44 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Italy
For those who might be interested in the recent progress of my Martin Van Buren, below you can see the present status. I worked on those ropes that connect the masts to the deck (sorry i do not know their technical name). I made them with nylon fishing 0,105 mm wire. I put it in place as loose (more or less) with cyan glue and then heat it with a hot file. Delicately, repeatedly, gently. This time a tool of my daughter proved very useful. It is a device to straighten the hair and its temperature can be easily set. Using 170 Celsius i had good results. Lower temperature was not enough to shrink the nylon. The method of heated nylon is not my idea, it was suggested to me by a great Greek modeler, very supporting and helpful. Actually i thought it was impossible to put such wires in place, but someone had done it, so it was possible and a challenge to be faced.
I also improved the weathering, that now seems reasonable.


Attachments:
File comment: Loose nylon wire before heating
B1FF4F23-7710-41E5-A3E4-9DEE164D7990.jpeg
B1FF4F23-7710-41E5-A3E4-9DEE164D7990.jpeg [ 112.22 KiB | Viewed 2225 times ]
1B7C5589-31C9-4EF0-8C74-06AE42DD12C8.jpeg
1B7C5589-31C9-4EF0-8C74-06AE42DD12C8.jpeg [ 106.88 KiB | Viewed 2225 times ]
9E4BE656-B341-42C8-9D87-460E33A64DAF.jpeg
9E4BE656-B341-42C8-9D87-460E33A64DAF.jpeg [ 99.87 KiB | Viewed 2225 times ]
File comment: The hair heater and the file
55D0BFC0-EA73-4B6E-A801-23348895ABC1.jpeg
55D0BFC0-EA73-4B6E-A801-23348895ABC1.jpeg [ 118.55 KiB | Viewed 2225 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 4:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:44 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Italy
Tonight i want to add some hits and tips about the nylon shrinking. After some experience i can say that: the heating cannot do miracles, therefore a wire 5 cm long does not shrink to 4, while 5.2 shrinks to 5, so anyway the starting dimension should be close enought to the final one. Moreover, the file to be used (or any other device) should not be too little, in order to have enough mass / heat capacity. Neither too large, in order to be manageable. I proved that it is better to arrive close to the nylon than to touch it. Moreover, if shrinking with 170 degrees is still not enough, a further step should be done with an higher temperature, since nylon seems to have memory of temperature.
Finally, it is probably time to unveil the idea of diorama i have in mind. Today i worked to the torpedo net, that i want to show as deployed. Indeed i have seen only one or two pictures of deployed nets, so any contribution is welcomed. Today i passed a nylon wire to hold the net in place between the two booms, more or less as should have been in practice. Really a crazy job, since the wire was hardly visible and i often passed the wire through....the air, without realizing where a hole really was.


Attachments:
File comment: Setting up the torpedo net
D3B7237D-CC68-467E-9387-88D7B06FD6E4.jpeg
D3B7237D-CC68-467E-9387-88D7B06FD6E4.jpeg [ 125.28 KiB | Viewed 2194 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 2:53 pm 
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Posts: 58
Location: Italy
Days passed, but were not inactive. After posting last image i found a picture on a forum of a different site that forced me to reconsider my torpedo net. The photo is shown below. As it can be clearly seen the rope that holds the net goes really close to the water. Well, i am an engineer, i knew that the rope could not be straight, but did not imagine that the catenary was so deep. So after one day of thinking i simulated the catenary (see below) and then cut the net in order to simulate the catenary curve. Below you can find the present status. I also added some boxes and some supports, but i will detail them tomorrow.


Attachments:
C8E73BDD-C224-4B15-BE8F-035A563BDAB8.jpeg
C8E73BDD-C224-4B15-BE8F-035A563BDAB8.jpeg [ 32.2 KiB | Viewed 2155 times ]
File comment: The catenanary on the sheet
44EC492B-5553-4254-85D7-CBE822267544.jpeg
44EC492B-5553-4254-85D7-CBE822267544.jpeg [ 96.6 KiB | Viewed 2155 times ]
File comment: Cutting the net
ECDE7C77-E88A-4468-A676-C1BE9624BD63.jpeg
ECDE7C77-E88A-4468-A676-C1BE9624BD63.jpeg [ 97.51 KiB | Viewed 2155 times ]
File comment: The present status
45EF2D8A-6790-4398-A758-E9128DAAAEED.jpeg
45EF2D8A-6790-4398-A758-E9128DAAAEED.jpeg [ 113.38 KiB | Viewed 2155 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 4:39 pm 
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Posts: 58
Location: Italy
As anticipated yesterday, in the rear area there were 4 boxes moreover there were 3 devices devoted to the net booms: two lateral supports and one central. I had never noticed them, but this picture is very clear about. Therefore i made them in plastic (boxes and central support) and in brass (lateral supports). There is one more central support in the front area, close to the support of the 2 booms (while in rest position).
I also started working on the diorama and the risk of doing something that compromises all the efforts till now increases, despite the trials one may have done in smaller scale. Let’s hope well


Attachments:
3172AC28-8B4C-4ECE-83CE-AF2BD1379F14.jpeg
3172AC28-8B4C-4ECE-83CE-AF2BD1379F14.jpeg [ 155.28 KiB | Viewed 2132 times ]
File comment: The 4 boxes and the rear support
2E5DE98B-F109-41FD-8A66-E0F685988272.jpeg
2E5DE98B-F109-41FD-8A66-E0F685988272.jpeg [ 107.16 KiB | Viewed 2132 times ]
File comment: The lateral supports
22C5496E-301C-413B-AD95-122C07679C45.jpeg
22C5496E-301C-413B-AD95-122C07679C45.jpeg [ 384.45 KiB | Viewed 2132 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 6:01 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:46 am
Posts: 1439
Location: Montreal, Canada
When Liberty ships were transporting tanks, vehicles, etc., were tanks crated, or were they chained down to the deck by their towing clevis? And how many 30 ton tanks (M-4's) could each ship accommodate?
:wave_1:

Duhhh...I found this which seems to answer all my questions:
http://www.skylighters.org/troopships/libertyships.html
:wave_1:


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 8:27 am 
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Posts: 58
Location: Italy
The attached image can give you an idea related to the tank accomodation. It is the only picture i have like that. On the other hand, some pages ago, on this same pages, there is a link to a company who made crating during ww2. It is very interesting and shows picures of crated airplanes. As a matter of fact i would say that crating was mostly for airplanes and CKD parts, while trucks, tanks, jeeps, trolleys were not crated. Below you can find one page (part of a leaflet) showing the possible loads (let me say that they are whatif examples, since loads were rarely if ever made of just one item)


Attachments:
File comment: Picture from history.nav.mil image sc 176356
26BA4388-2971-4A5F-8BD9-665551831CEE.jpeg
26BA4388-2971-4A5F-8BD9-665551831CEE.jpeg [ 173.8 KiB | Viewed 3053 times ]
File comment: Loading capacity
45E8BC90-A459-4EC7-8F96-4FE4DF23D583.jpeg
45E8BC90-A459-4EC7-8F96-4FE4DF23D583.jpeg [ 118.94 KiB | Viewed 3041 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 12:13 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:46 am
Posts: 1439
Location: Montreal, Canada
When underway did Liberty ships (or any cargo ship) stow their crane booms in horizontal, or vertical positions? I've viewed several other modellers ships and most tend to build the booms as the kit intends - in a roughly 60 degree raised position. I've even noted that renown modeller Won-hui Lee has built a 1/700 John Brown underway with booms raised (as Trumpeter intended)!
:wave_1:


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