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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:44 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Italy
Very useful movie. And very useful suggestions. Today i tried 2 different grades of grey, the darker was the more realistic, i guess. Anyway i need to refine several points tomorrow. I made more wrong brush touches than i thought.


Attachments:
47B3AA7F-7E4C-44A9-8195-364501C5E52D.jpeg
47B3AA7F-7E4C-44A9-8195-364501C5E52D.jpeg [ 121.97 KiB | Viewed 2404 times ]
File comment: Better than yesterday, but need some refining (indeed the camera makes any small mistake appear a disaster, but the human eye is softer :-))
14824D54-FE72-4004-869F-7AA71F2052A1.jpeg
14824D54-FE72-4004-869F-7AA71F2052A1.jpeg [ 115.63 KiB | Viewed 2404 times ]
File comment: After some retouches, in the following day
54F5A58B-853D-4FE4-B6F4-32D1D49A63D3.jpeg
54F5A58B-853D-4FE4-B6F4-32D1D49A63D3.jpeg [ 120.27 KiB | Viewed 2373 times ]


Last edited by Intreno on Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:44 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Italy
Today i spent some hours that are hardly justifiable to anyone who is not a modeler. Cutting rings less than 1mm of diameter, closing them again, passing the rope inside (i took more than 1 hour to find a way and to do the activity, since the usci van der host rigging rope is so thin that breathing alone moves it), gluing a nylon wire to the ring. The overall result is not excellent, but really i was not able to find a better way to simulate the pulleys that hold the lifeboat.


Attachments:
File comment: Cutting and closing again the ring from the chain
6F9FCC9C-675B-4713-B190-8C28FFAD6522.jpeg
6F9FCC9C-675B-4713-B190-8C28FFAD6522.jpeg [ 82.52 KiB | Viewed 2373 times ]
File comment: Preparing the rope with the rings
535FCF1E-3057-40E7-B701-6D66D14398C1.jpeg
535FCF1E-3057-40E7-B701-6D66D14398C1.jpeg [ 87.87 KiB | Viewed 2373 times ]
File comment: End of the activity for today
34046B22-43CE-4376-9080-04F8AE302316.jpeg
34046B22-43CE-4376-9080-04F8AE302316.jpeg [ 345.13 KiB | Viewed 2373 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:44 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Italy
I have one question. I found a picture showing a possible loading pattern for a Liberty (see below). Many items are called “DO”. I tried to understand its meaning, but there were no references in the picture nor in sites about the meaning of “DO”, that is probably easy once one knows, but obscure to me. Can anyone help me?


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006DD0B4-DDFC-4121-A26D-10BEC72A9B97.png
006DD0B4-DDFC-4121-A26D-10BEC72A9B97.png [ 386.06 KiB | Viewed 2342 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:20 am 
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Location: Italy
I had to give up the idea of improving the lifeboats area since the tension of the fishing nylon and of the rubber of usci van der host wire are very different and the nylon simply decided what to do, forcing the rubber in unrealistic shapes. Yesterday i focused on the covers: they still appear too much dishomogenuos, but after 5 passages i give up and keep them. I also added ladders and started to assembly the whole deck.


Attachments:
File comment: The front mast area, with the opened door. The 2 protruding structures will be used in future to hold additional booms (for the diorama i have in mind).
EA8D1EA9-710D-482D-BAFA-0B5033C523DC.jpeg
EA8D1EA9-710D-482D-BAFA-0B5033C523DC.jpeg [ 98.48 KiB | Viewed 2318 times ]
BDD8C86A-FA83-4913-8EBB-4AAF5D34A9A3.jpeg
BDD8C86A-FA83-4913-8EBB-4AAF5D34A9A3.jpeg [ 98.73 KiB | Viewed 2318 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:10 pm 
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Posts: 58
Location: Italy
Not many improvements today. Scratchbuilding the two boxes in the bow area was challenging because they had to have the same shape and size and be enough squared. And the handrail in the area had a very peculiar shape. But in less than 2 hours i did both.


Attachments:
File comment: I scratch built the structure to support the emergency raft
76A6307B-07A9-4E41-905D-8AD5E430F202.jpeg
76A6307B-07A9-4E41-905D-8AD5E430F202.jpeg [ 87.74 KiB | Viewed 2289 times ]
File comment: Today i added hand rails in the stern area
1704AD88-BD51-47E8-9B6E-63D1444CD14A.jpeg
1704AD88-BD51-47E8-9B6E-63D1444CD14A.jpeg [ 61.76 KiB | Viewed 2289 times ]
File comment: As shown in picture, there are two large boxes in the bow area, behind the gun, not provided by the kit
9BC52599-4E0E-48F9-AD58-B0E13954CFBB.jpeg
9BC52599-4E0E-48F9-AD58-B0E13954CFBB.jpeg [ 45.61 KiB | Viewed 2289 times ]
File comment: These are the two large boxes handmade and the handrails while gluing
0A18EE88-F455-4E59-84CF-67D7FF1ED429.jpeg
0A18EE88-F455-4E59-84CF-67D7FF1ED429.jpeg [ 329.26 KiB | Viewed 2289 times ]


Last edited by Intreno on Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:55 pm 
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Posts: 58
Location: Italy
DavidP wrote:
what size gun is that in the bow tub?

It should be a 3” 30 calibers (see the picture below)


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6A17EA56-1BB5-4BB3-8E23-0878D02D3BB3.jpeg
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:29 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA
I think that is a typo. Should be 3" 50 cal.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:57 am 
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Location: Italy
Rick_H wrote:
I think that is a typo. Should be 3" 50 cal.

I think you are right. Indeed 30 calibers should be very short and there doesn’t seem to have been made / produced a 3” 30. Sorry for not realizing it before posting my image and thanks Rick_h.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:42 pm 
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Location: Italy
After all i was very unsatisfied with the hatches. The color was uneven, irregular, despite all trials. And the closing stripes were too large. So today i decided to remove them (luckily the glue is not so strong), sanded them till flat and airbrushed them. Next step, in future days, the re-building of the stripes. I will try both a plastic solution and a kitchen aluminium solution.


Attachments:
70F9AED1-4FB3-41F2-B9A6-81B49132C70F.jpeg
70F9AED1-4FB3-41F2-B9A6-81B49132C70F.jpeg [ 139.5 KiB | Viewed 2210 times ]
118B4487-778E-438B-AB2F-E98977364560.jpeg
118B4487-778E-438B-AB2F-E98977364560.jpeg [ 113.35 KiB | Viewed 2210 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:48 am 
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For what it is worth, a reference that I have showing hatch coverings of that era describe the batten bars (represented on the model as the stripes running athwartships on the hatch covers) as "made of mild steel about 3/8 inches thick and 2 1/2 inches wide."


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:44 pm 
In answer to your question about "Do". This is just a shortened version of "Ditto" meaning "the same". Hope this helps !


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:47 pm 
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Location: Italy
Dear all, many thanks to guest and Kimmerwerft.
The DO issue was really puzzling for me. Indeed it explains why something was detailed and something not :-)

One hatch cover stripe (batten bar) of 2 1/2 inches in 1/350 is more than challenging. It is less than 0.2 mm. Doing it with a fishing nylon wire creates problems of thickness. I tried cutting aluminium stripes, but the blade simply destroyed anything wide less than 1.5 mm. I then tried with plastic, the thinnest i found (from a pasta envelope). There are problems with paint, but anyway i was able to cut it a bit less than 1 mm wide. Not too close to reality, but i think much better than the model base (moreover it allows to show somewhere some space between the stripe center and the hatch cover, that sound realistic).
Below the picture of the present status, with the pieces still quite troubled by cyanacrilate and the plastic sheet used as a base for the stripes).


Attachments:
CA1D6FFC-2A50-4CA8-A1DA-D54FE2001271.jpeg
CA1D6FFC-2A50-4CA8-A1DA-D54FE2001271.jpeg [ 306.55 KiB | Viewed 2166 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:24 pm 
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Location: Italy
Days of hard work. I cut a PC sheet i had found on the road years ago creating the base and edges of the diorama that will host the Martin Van Buren i am making. Then i worked again on the stripes that close the hatches covers. I made thinner stripes using a 0,105 mm nylon fishing wire, twisted it, glued with vynilic glue, painted it in grey. Then i also added the joints, cutting 2,5 mm pieces of thin metal wire. And put again the hatches in place. Moreover i glued 2 of the emergency rafts, while 2 more have been scratchbuilt and will be put in place soon, shifted from the position suggested in the instructions since Martin Van Buren had the torpedo nets.


Attachments:
File comment: The result
1AA6ADAA-A041-4F28-BDBC-7DF31A8E9377.jpeg
1AA6ADAA-A041-4F28-BDBC-7DF31A8E9377.jpeg [ 107.59 KiB | Viewed 2125 times ]
File comment: Work in progress
63223171-A893-4E8F-8886-C12A4532E429.jpeg
63223171-A893-4E8F-8886-C12A4532E429.jpeg [ 349.38 KiB | Viewed 2125 times ]
File comment: The house of the to-be diorama
CC28625C-ABD8-441C-84D0-038A329129AE.jpeg
CC28625C-ABD8-441C-84D0-038A329129AE.jpeg [ 96.15 KiB | Viewed 2119 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:54 am 
Torpedo net. Well, it seems that everyone, or at least any modeler, is somehow attracted by something in particular. So, as soon as I saw a Liberty with a deployed torpedo net, I was attracted by that particular device. Indeed I think that it is the unusual that strikes our imagination and the challenge that drives us. Therefore, limiting the argument to the Liberty Ships, someone is attracted by radar pickets, others by oil tank conversion or to AK or other conversions. Unfortunately the Liberty Ship itself is a topic extremely wide, much more than I even suspected when I first bought the kit and started working on it. So, even though more than 2700 ships were built, their being sisters did not translate into being twin sisters and it is difficult to find two ships looking the same (ditto, as just learnt).
Ok, beyond philosophy, in terms of torpedo nets, I spent some time, indeed a lot, investigating about it (may wife, who did not appreciate it, would have said that i wasted a lot of time). It seems that it was something covered by secret at war time and very little can be found about it. I wanted to understand also the effectiveness of them. But finding an answer about how many torpedoed ships used a torpedo net was not so easy. I started creating a database with all the Liberty Ships and crossed it with all the ones that had been somehow damaged. Then, for all those ones that were hit by torpedoes, 122, I searched at least one picture. And I found images for 44 but only 5 showed torpedo net. In particular nr 338 Richard Hovey sunk on 29.03.44 by a Japanese submarine, 1209 Edward M. House damaged on 29.06.44, 1795 Horace Busnell lost on 20.03.45, Martin Van buren lost on 14.01.45 and 1951 Jose Navarro damaged on 26.12.43.
For sure there are other units that received the torpedo net, like 1001 Pierre L-Enfant, 1215 Arthur M. Huddelll, 1074 Louis A. Godey, 2420 Charles Morgan, 1061 Hoke Smith, 1936 Sam Houston II and others, but I did not find any logical connection. Such nets were used on units in different theatres, in different years, on units built by different yards and so on.
Even in terms of narrative, I found only two mentions, one about the Richard Hovey, that surely had the net deployed when torpedoed, and another about the Dwight L. Moody, that deployed them at least twice, but was not attacked.
Does anyone know if there was a specific logic behind the adding such devices to some ships and not to others ? For sure the net itself reduced the speed of the ship, maybe up to 2 knots, therefore it could not be deployed for long periods. Any contribution is welcome.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:59 pm 
The above post was mine (intreno). I do not know why it appears as guest.
Today i tried to work on the rigging of the booms in rest position. Still do not know if it works and if i am able to replicate the feature 10 times.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:04 pm 
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The above message is mine. I did not realize that i had logout and that is why it appears as guest.
Today i worked on the rigging of the boom in resting position. I do not know ifi am able to replicate it for 10 times


Attachments:
File comment: Passing the usci van der host wire inside the chain ring was not easy. I had also to avoid breathing.
5A25F906-8BE2-4860-A19A-229E110609B3.jpeg
5A25F906-8BE2-4860-A19A-229E110609B3.jpeg [ 202.8 KiB | Viewed 2101 times ]
File comment: after gluing the wire, i glued half ring below the boom base (i hope it can be seen)
A4F7B4F5-10B6-46FC-86FE-2C8FFD1F241A.jpeg
A4F7B4F5-10B6-46FC-86FE-2C8FFD1F241A.jpeg [ 97.82 KiB | Viewed 2101 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:03 pm 
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Guest wrote:
Does anyone know if there was a specific logic behind the adding such devices to some ships and not to others ? For sure the net itself reduced the speed of the ship, maybe up to 2 knots, therefore it could not be deployed for long periods. Any contribution is welcome.


Well the fact that SS Martin Van Buren was fatally torpedoed while nets were equipped (if not actually in use) speaks to their effectiveness. :smallsmile:

In a few of the biographies I've read, they appear to have been unpopular with Captains and crews due to the loss in speed you mentioned as well as reduced maneuverability and limited usability in any kind of rough seas. Looking through photos, they seem to have been somewhat uncommon, although many Liberty Ships were built with the larger cross-trees for boom storage and cut out gunwales along the mainmast for net handling, even if booms, nets and catch baskets were never actually installed.

Edit: Regarding Edward M. House damaged on 29.06.44, "A True Yarn, Liberty Ship Captain's Deeds and Follies", Dan Cornwell mentions her torpedo nets being installed in 1945 (after V.E. Day!). They were so poorly regarded that they were jettisoned over the side two days later, as soon as the ship hit blue water on the way to the Pacific, in spite of the ship having herself been previously torpedoed a year earlier. (pg 150)

Recommended: https://www.amazon.com/True-Yarn-Libert ... 1469968762

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:45 pm 
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Below a couple of images showing the torpedo nets with my comments typed on. They are the best i found in terms of resolution.


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5ABD9019-7529-464B-8E5B-8661DCDD8220.jpeg
5ABD9019-7529-464B-8E5B-8661DCDD8220.jpeg [ 119.87 KiB | Viewed 2049 times ]
45917C07-B2CE-44CF-A382-EA1CD57BFFDE.jpeg
45917C07-B2CE-44CF-A382-EA1CD57BFFDE.jpeg [ 314.39 KiB | Viewed 2049 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:56 pm 
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Love the progress on your Liberty Ship -

To depict the torpedo net equipment, in addition to the net booms, be sure to add the longer cross-trees on the fore and main masts, catch baskets by the main mast, and the cut outs in the gunwale where the nets were drug onboard:

Image

More photos by PM.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:56 pm 
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After the great image of Reigel i spent some times in cutting (indeed removing with a smooth file) the area where the net is collected. Fortunately i had not yet fixed the booms there and could work quite freely. Unfortunately the rigging is lagging behind and could not work much on it. Just shadowed the wire tensioners.


Attachments:
File comment: The cutting area
7EC158C7-24ED-454B-9C54-78DE358806E8.jpeg
7EC158C7-24ED-454B-9C54-78DE358806E8.jpeg [ 116.82 KiB | Viewed 2536 times ]
File comment: The area after the cut
3FAE22D0-B19A-4BB4-99B2-33C81B79EC07.jpeg
3FAE22D0-B19A-4BB4-99B2-33C81B79EC07.jpeg [ 328.6 KiB | Viewed 2536 times ]
File comment: The rigging as is now
228B013F-F137-4815-A8CB-ACBD7C97F9D1.jpeg
228B013F-F137-4815-A8CB-ACBD7C97F9D1.jpeg [ 314.09 KiB | Viewed 2536 times ]
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