Calling all FIGHTING MERCHANTMEN fans (not Liberty/Victory)

Guido · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:23 am

Hello, folks!
Welcome to the home post for Armed and Fighting Merchantmen of all navies and all wars.
Now, this is very wide field ranging from the most colourfully assembled convoy ships to disguised trade raiders like the German "Hilfskreuzer". This thread is supposed to deal with more exotic and less well documented subjects so…

I want to exclude Liberty ships, because they are such a wide field all in itself and they have their own thread already (see below).
As well, I want to exclude Victory ships: They deserve their own thread in time having to offer a variety no less extensive then Liberty ships.
Modern merchantman shipping has a fantastic thread, too. Go and have a look!

For Liberty ships please check the board here:
http://www.shipmodels.info/mwphpBB2/vie ... hp?t=16742

For modern and peacetime merchantman shipping please check the board here:
http://www.shipmodels.info/mwphpBB2/vie ... php?t=5656

Before the fun part starts PLEASE
#1. ... read the rules of this particular message board
http://www.shipmodels.info/mwphpBB2/vie ... php?t=4803
#2. ... stick to these rules!
TIA

I am looking forward to all your postings! Please link us to the progress-pics of your fighting merchanmen posted at
http://www.shipmodels.info/mwphpBB2/viewforum.php?f=12

Now, lets do this... :thumbs_up_1:

Cheers,
Guido

phil reeder · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:19 am

I`m going to be the first, Guido. Re the armament of the Comet, as I stated earlier, it was fitted at Boston Mass.I have since remembered that it consisted of 1x4", and 2 Hotchkiss MG`s, well thats got the ball rolling!

Guest · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:21 am

Hi, Phil!
Nice to have you here!
That plan material is great. Where did you get it?
Guido

phil reeder · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:22 am

A friend gave me it, he was researching the Comet,as he had family connections to her.Unfortunately I`ve lost contact with him.The plan itself is 2.5 metres long and very fragile,and very difficult to handle by oneself!

mike mccabe · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:58 am

Guido
Well done for kicking this one off.

Phil, the plans are superb and not a huge amount different from the HP Empire ship Guido and I are both building at the moment, though it would need some work, then again the kit does anyway!

As you say Guido, the Liberty and Victory ships are well documented, mainly as there are still some about, but having tried to research into British merchants, I have found very little useful. I wonder in some ways if this is inevitable when trying to research merchants as opposed to naval vessels?

My current projects are a Fort Class freighter Fort Erie, with a tanker British Promise to follow. There is a purpose to both these builds, and once I have worked out again how to post photos on the picture post section then I will start a related and model building based thread on there.

Mike

Jim Smith · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:00 pm

Guido,
I've noticed a significant upsurge in interest in Merchant subjects since Telford last year and I wish this forum every success.

I returned to the hobby a year or so back and have been modelling the 'also rans' since the outset (I was the guy who had the 2 CAM ships and IJN supply ships on the South East Essex IPMS stand at last year's Telford).

While I still have a way to go to meet the standards of the modellers in the MW Gallery, I enjoy building these little known ships.

I agree with Mike that details are hard to come by but feel it also works in our favour with us allowed a certain amount of artistic license as to armaments and colour schemes.

My recent completions include conversions of the NotoMaru (Waveline) into the Nako Maru, and the Kamikawa Maru (Pit Road) into the Hirokawa Maru. Both these were IJA (yes Army!!) transports sunk at Guadalcanal. I am currently working on the Czech Freighter (HP Models) and a T2 Tanker (Loose Cannon).

I'll post photos of these to the Gallery when complete.

Every success.

mike mccabe · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:24 pm

Hi Jim

Jim Smith wrote:

I agree with Mike that details are hard to come by but feel it also works in our favour with us allowed a certain amount of artistic license as to armaments and colour schemes.

I know, good eh?

Mike

phil gollin · **Joined:** Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:52 am **Posts:** 558

Just a (un)-helpful note.

For people who are interested in DEMS (Defensively Equipped Merchant Ships) the Confidential Admiralty Fleet Orders (CAFOs) for the first couple of years list those ships so armed about every 3 months.

The lists purely give a summary of armaments - no sketches or anything.

Dino Carancini · **Joined:** Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:46 am **Posts:** 412

Reading about detailing merchant ships I remembered a photo that I found in the Imperial War Museum collection when I was looking for some info about "Fijis" cruisers involved in Operation Pedestal.

This is the photo:

Description: 12 August: Air Attacks: Army gunners man a 40mm Bofors gun on board the MELBOURNE STAR. These weapons were intended for the air defence of Malta, and were nominally part of the cargo, but were used to supplement the ship's close range armament.

mike mccabe · **Posted:** Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:23 pm

Hi Dino
Interesting photo, thanks for posting

Mike

Guido · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:06 am

Hello, folks!
Good to see we are taking off in numbers! Let's keep it that way.

Meanwhile I have decided to turn my "Emipre"-Tpye Armed freighter by HP into a "Standard Fast"-type cargo liner. It will be either Empire Chieftain or Empire Regent as I need a vessel from 1943.
The vessel will be embedded into a group-built harbour scene. I have not yet determind, if I'll be showing her with holds open or in harbour approach with a deck load comprising of US built trucks and tanks.
First steps of hull conversion are already finished. I hope to be able to post some progress pics of the finished hull by the end of this weekend (if my family will allow me some workbench time, that is!)
It's always good fun taking a HP and the chainsaw... :heh:

Mike-
great opening show over at the Picture Post board! Setting the bar high, huh? :thumbs_up_1:

Guido

mike mccabe · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:25 pm

Pretty ambitious there Guido, nice to see some original thought. Your idea just shows though that the merchant kits available could form the basis for a very wide range of models. Maybe I'll get around to looking at what actually is available in terms of kits, watch this space.

mike

Guido · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:19 pm

Jim Smith wrote:

Guido,
I've noticed a significant upsurge in interest in Merchant subjects since Telford last year and I wish this forum every success.

I returned to the hobby a year or so back and have been modelling the 'also rans' since the outset (I was the guy who had the 2 CAM ships and IJN supply ships on the South East Essex IPMS stand at last year's Telford).

While I still have a way to go to meet the standards of the modellers in the MW Gallery, I enjoy building these little known ships.

I agree with Mike that details are hard to come by but feel it also works in our favour with us allowed a certain amount of artistic license as to armaments and colour schemes.

My recent completions include conversions of the NotoMaru (Waveline) into the Nako Maru, and the Kamikawa Maru (Pit Road) into the Hirokawa Maru. Both these were IJA (yes Army!!) transports sunk at Guadalcanal. I am currently working on the Czech Freighter (HP Models) and a T2 Tanker (Loose Cannon).

I'll post photos of these to the Gallery when complete.

Every success.

Hi, Jim!
Great to have you with us!
I loved your models really!
I agree with you completely! Merchantmen Navies allow for a very good bit of artistic license and - lacking definite reference - spur the imagiation!
I am VERY much looking forwrad to seeing your T" and the Czech freighter! Hope to see your "IJ lorries" :eyebrows:

soon!

Guido

Laurence Batchelor · **Posted:** Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:27 pm

Merchant ships are certainly not my thing, but I noticed this and it might be of some use for reference purposes.

The Empire Ships
By Sawyer, L. A. and Mitchell, W.H.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Empire-Ships-World-War-II/dp/0715349147/ref=sr_1_8/026-8822682-2088459?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184451735&sr=8-8

graham · **Posted:** Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:59 am

This book is the early one put out in 1965 120 pages very useful.
In 1990 Lloyd's of London put out a 2nd edition "The Empire Ships" 1990 ISBN 1 85044 275 4 500 pages, this later ed covers all the privately build ships as well as the the empire ships. The name "empire"was applied to ships build for the government
If you can get hold of 2ed it its very well worth while to add to your library I just stumbled across it last year in a map/chart shop in Fremantle last year a luck fluke :woo_hoo:

Graham Murdoch

PS happy to look up any details/ info that anybodys want :thumbs_up_1:

Neptune · **Posted:** Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:42 am

Hello guys,
good to see I'm not the only one attempting to build merchant ships! Ok, you guys want to build armed ones, but there's little difference after all.

Mike, I saw you noted British Promise to your list, do you mean the modern BP tanker? Or are you planning an older ship called British Promise?

I currently have many projects running, all military. But I'm going to switch my yards to merchant after that. The old Ti Europe model is still there, but I'm thinking of giving it another try in styrene once I have mastered a better technique for creating hulls. I'm not overly happy with the result of the Excel hull I made with Milliput.

mike mccabe · **Posted:** Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:09 am

Neptune
I'm planning to do the older ship built 1943, for the convoy diorama. By the way if you are interested in tankers have you seen the fairly new book on BP tankers?

Mike

Laurence Batchelor · **Posted:** Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:25 am

Another thing springs to mind on merchantmen.
I have the following magazine scanned into my pc, which is cheaply available:

War Machine 140 - Armed Merchantmen of both World Wars

It has colour artwork and text inside.
I can't gurantee accuracy, but if you would like a copy please email.

Regards
LB

Guido · **Posted:** Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:52 am

Hello, guys!

Graham -
Can you provide information for SS Empire Day (Cam ship) please!

Laurence -
One copy of War Machine to me please! guido.hopp'at'gmail.com
TIA

Mike-
Nothing wrong about ambition, right? I will post pictures tonight: Converting the hull was a lot easier, than I actually thought! Superstructure will be a different thing, I guess!
Downside is we found out, that I can't use it for the dio we had planned-Wrong time frame!

Well, looks like I have to make another one!

Cheers,
Guido

graham · **Posted:** Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:15 am

yes I will see what I can do in the next couple of days or so
Graham Murdoch

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Calling all FIGHTING MERCHANTMEN fans (not Liberty/Victory)

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