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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:11 pm 
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Thanks, Avery. Between those and Meagher's two sets of plans I've got more info on the City Class than I need to build a model.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:32 am 
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Avery Boyer wrote:
I know the plans you have Devin, they were sent to me by a friend. I'll ask him and see if he knows how to contact Mr. Hill. It's a bit of a long shot, but we'll see...

Beautiful Roanoke JP! I am curious, what references are you using? I am currently designing a paper model of this ship, but I don't feel comfortable releasing it commercially until I have some better references. At the moment, the only references I have are some low quality images I pulled from Navsource. I'd really love some recommendations for better material. Thanks!


Hi, Avery
thanks for your words about the ROANOKE model.
Indeed it was a long research for information, plans, drawings, pics and so on...
it tooks me some years to collect nearly everything is around the world about this ship

In any case, for my model, I have used the following references, integrated in last months, also by a very nice plan set of USS Roanoke as ironclad turret, drawn from a german friend of mine (he's a very expert about Civil War vessels and Monitors..).

Not all sources are exactly about the Roanoke, but they are also about naval and military technology of such period and other Civil War vessels that I have used as base to make the Roanoke model as better as possible.

Ah..and also I got here a very kind help from other modelers :-)

• Wikipedia.org
• US National Archives - NARS Plan N. 1-10-18 / NARS Plan n. 107-10-13A
• E. G. Parent – USS Roanoke drawings scale 1:240
• USS Roanoke plans, 1/48 scale - Taubman Plans/Loyalhanna Dockyard
• US Naval Historical Center
• La Tecnologia Militare Marittima – Volume N. 2 – by Giovanni Santi Mazzini
• Seaway’s Ships in Scale – N. 6 – Vol. 2 / N. 5 – Vol. 4 / N. 2 – Vol. 18
• Ships in Scale – N. 44 – N. 45
• Model Ship Builder – N. 40 – N. 79 – N. 82
• The World’s Worst Warship – A. Preston
• The Old Steam Navy V. 1 – Frigates, Sloops and Gunboat 1815- 1885 – D. L. Canney
• The Old Steam Navy V. 2 – The Ironclads 1842 to 1885 – D. L. Canney
• The Ironclads – An illustrated history from 1860 to 1st WW – P. Hore
• Steam, Steel & Shellfire – The steam warship 1815 to 1905
• Warrior to Dreadnought – Warship development 1860 t 1905 – D.K. Brown
• Modeling Civil War Ironclad Ships – S. Lund, W. Hathaway
• From Monitor to Missile Boat – coast defence ships since 1860 – G. Paloczi-Horvath

For Devin :
There is another source of drawings for the USS Cairo (I have started my model some years ago from this plan set) that were drawn from Admiral Franco Gay (a well known naval researcher here in Italy). But if you'll got such plan, be aware : they were drawn before the original vessel was put out the water, so there are some mistakes in such plans (as example the casemate - conning tower shape). But they're very nice plans and I think that you should have them together the other plans.

By the way.. I have also digitilized, a set of plans of USS cairo from restoration team of the Museum.. If you like, Devin, send me your mail address and I'll send you such set.
My email is : jpshipmodel@yahoo.it

Happy modeling to all you !!

Ciao from Italy

JP

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:45 pm 
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JP,

Thanks for the offer. I have those survey plans from the National Parks Service as well. Lots of very nice details in there. Too many, in fact, I want to build all of it! I'm having to hold myself back on certain things.

-Devin

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:50 pm 
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JP, thanks for the reply, great list of references there! I will definitely be getting some of them. Thanks so much for the help!

Devin, I know exactly what you mean. I have that problem often when designing and building ships with good references, there's fine line between between "detailing" and "OCD" :big_grin:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:58 pm 
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I purchased the Verlinden 54MM Monitor turret the other day. Were the large pendelums opened by hand/pullys right before a shot? Doesnt seem to be any links to open them automaticaly.
Also what was the turret transverse mechanisum used for? Was it like a clutch or locking feature? Each gun is sitting on 6 strips. two outboard and four together in the middle. Were they iron ...bronze.. wood strips? The gun rammers appear to be too long to work even if the gun is back??? Would they have painted the inside turret and it's wood beams or are they left in an unfinished or varnished state?
I haven't even got to the pullys and lines to position the guns for firing. :big_grin:

I've looked at various examples, some are beautiful models, yet few seem to answer these questions. Any facts about these questions or is everything only speculation?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:37 pm 
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newshipmodeler wrote:
I purchased the Verlinden 54MM Monitor turret the other day. Were the large pendelums opened by hand/pullys right before a shot? Doesnt seem to be any links to open them automaticaly.
Also what was the turret transverse mechanisum used for? Was it like a clutch or locking feature? Each gun is sitting on 6 strips. two outboard and four together in the middle. Were they iron ...bronze.. wood strips? The gun rammers appear to be too long to work even if the gun is back??? Would they have painted the inside turret and it's wood beams or are they left in an unfinished or varnished state?
I haven't even got to the pullys and lines to position the guns for firing. :big_grin:

I've looked at various examples, some are beautiful models, yet few seem to answer these questions. Any facts about these questions or is everything only speculation?


There's more known more about Monitor than other ironclads, especially her turret, as it has been recovered, but, yes, most information is still speculation.

Not sure about the pendulums, they varied from ship to ship and I haven't studied Monitor that closely.

The strips the guns ran on were generally wood, but could have been metal. They were there to provide friction to slow the gun's recoil, and sometimes clamps on the gun carriage gripped these to further slow the recoil.

The rammers were indeed too long, when used they had to be first fed out through the gun ports and then used. In the later monitor style ships they came up with rammers that had hinges along their length, but that did little to make them easier to use or speed up the loading process.

The interior colors are up for debate. My personal belief is that they would have painted everything that they could white, so that light would reflect better and it would be easier to see in those confined spaces. White also follows the practice of most sailing warships of the period.

-Devin

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:33 pm 
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I've started posting in-progress photos of my USS Carondelet build:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=50309

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:32 pm 
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Hello to everybody !

here is going on my USS Roanoke model and I would like to give you some information about the atual status of the model.
In the last week, I worked on the guns. The Roanoke, about many souces, had three type of guns : a couple of 15 inches Dahlgren, a couple of 11 inches also Dahlgren and, at last, a couple of Parrot rifled guns

In each tutter there was a mix of guns, giving the possibility to have both a very strong firepower (given by 15 and 11 inches Dahlgren) and at the same time a very exact and long-distance gunshot (given by the Parrots)

So, using different sources, found on drawings and pictures found over Internet, I made a redraw of each type of gun, first in 1:20 scale and after, using a photocopier machine, scaled to 1:100

I made the three prototypes in hard wodd, using my lathe, and I used such prototypes as master for a silicon-rubber moulding. Infact, since many years, I'm using silicon rubber mouldes and resin cast to create objects when I need more than 2-3 of each one.

Once created the resin copies, I built from polistyrene (evergreen sheet and rods) the gun carriages and I have assembled everything (in a dry-run session) to be sure of the dimensions and the position that they should have inside each turret.

Once glued on the steel rails inside the turrets, I have closed their roofs and I have started tu build the railings over the turrets. I made those from copper rods and very thin brass wire. The "rings" where the three-level railings run, were builted by drilling a very large hole in a thin evergreen rod and, when sliced, I got many "rings" that I have glued wiith cyano-acrilate glue.

I made also a prototype for turret canvas coverage, using a very thin paper (the paper used to box shirts), paited with acrilic matt white (spray) and then cutted a circle, that was transformed in a short height cone.

So, in the following pictire, you'll see te actual status of Roanoke model.

See you soon with new pics

Bye - Ciao
JP


Attachments:
Roanoke-143-compressa.JPG
Roanoke-143-compressa.JPG [ 141.43 KiB | Viewed 1820 times ]
Roanoke-149-compressa.JPG
Roanoke-149-compressa.JPG [ 129.29 KiB | Viewed 1819 times ]
Roanoke-152-compressa.JPG
Roanoke-152-compressa.JPG [ 133.81 KiB | Viewed 1821 times ]
Roanoke-161-compressa.JPG
Roanoke-161-compressa.JPG [ 135.01 KiB | Viewed 1818 times ]
Roanoke-162-compressa.JPG
Roanoke-162-compressa.JPG [ 140.59 KiB | Viewed 1821 times ]

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:44 am 
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JP,

That's some more excellent work. I love the guns. Did you use a template to turn them, or just do it by sight? The Carondelet I'm building has 13 guns of 4 different types. I have one type turned in brass already, but for as long as it took to do that, I'm not sure if I should invest in my own lathe, or if going to somewhere like BMK to have masters turned in brass is the way to go.

Once again, great work. What a massive and impressive ship!

-Devin

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:33 pm 
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Devin wrote:
JP,

That's some more excellent work. I love the guns. Did you use a template to turn them, or just do it by sight? The Carondelet I'm building has 13 guns of 4 different types. I have one type turned in brass already, but for as long as it took to do that, I'm not sure if I should invest in my own lathe, or if going to somewhere like BMK to have masters turned in brass is the way to go.

Once again, great work. What a massive and impressive ship!

-Devin


Hi Devin
Thanks for your kind words about the model of Roanoke
About the guns, I made a template to made them by a lathe.
In few words, I made this approach that I want to share with you and other modelers :

1) first of all, I collected ALL (really all) data about the guns that were of the same type of the Roanoke' ones. In this data I was very careful to verify the bore diameter and the lenghts of the guns.

2) As second step, I collected all the pictures and drawings about the three types of guns of the Roanoke.

3) I have used a graphic tool (Powerpoint in this case, but it could be every program that can handle both pics and lines) on my pc to define the main dimensions of the guns (in scale) and after I attached as background of those dimensions the picture of the gun that I choosed to model. By the scaling feature I scaled the gun to align the lenght of the gun with the dimension I have traced before in Powerpoint.

4) After this scaling of the background picture (being careful to respect the lenght-height rateo) I traced over the external shape of the gun. Once made this I deleted the background picture, and I printed the gun external shape on a laser print.

5) Once printed, I cut with a knife the shape ove a 1 mm. plasticard sheet and I cut the internal side of the shape.

6) When turned on the lathe the gun (made by walnut wood), I have used the plasticard template of the gun, checking both diameter and dimensions every few cutting operations. So I made the master for the copies in resin.

I hope that this few indication could be clear anc could help some other modellers.

Have a nice modeling !!!
Bye
Ciao

JP

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:40 pm 
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hello to everybody

I would just share some pics of the actual status of the USS Roanoke model.

Last week I brought it in a local model exhibition and contest and she was very well valuated and rated from judges.

I hope that you'll like too...

A big "ciao" from Italy

JP


Attachments:
DSCF4767-compressa.JPG
DSCF4767-compressa.JPG [ 140.61 KiB | Viewed 1858 times ]
DSCF4769-compressa.JPG
DSCF4769-compressa.JPG [ 139.03 KiB | Viewed 1858 times ]
DSCF4771-compressa.JPG
DSCF4771-compressa.JPG [ 139.48 KiB | Viewed 1858 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:50 pm 
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JP,

Very Nice! Great presentation. I'll bet that yours was the only ironclad at the show!

I do not know if you said or not, but what did you use for the stanchions, both on the deck and on top of the turrets? I'm going to need some for my USS Carondelet build, and I'm wondering if styrene rod would work, or if I should look into having some turned by one of the barrel makers.

Thanks,

-Devin

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:49 pm 
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Hi, Devin
sorry for my late answer

Effectively, I have used two different systems to make stanchions.

Stanchions on Deck
On the deck, I have used a very thin brass wire (0,6 millimeters in diameter), to make each stanchion (vertical).

The lenght of each stanchion was 13 millimeters and each one was put into an hole on the deck for the deep of 4 millimeters, in order to have a lenght of 9 millimeters over the deck.

Using a gauge to assure the right height, I have glued with a drop of cyanoacrilate glue (super attak) each stanchion into holes in the deck.

After, to make the orizontal lines, I have used a copper wire, 0,4 millimeters in diameter, stretched and pressed by a strong and flat iron surface, over a glass surface... rolling forth and aft the iron surface and pressing the wire over the glass surface, I have obtained a very straight piece of wire, that I have attached with superglue drops over each stanchion.

When all was dry, I have painted by a brus in matt white acrylic paint and when dried, I have used a special liquid for "rust" effect.

Stanchion on turrets
In this case I have used different approach :

Using a very thin rod of plasticard (evergreen) with 0,8 millimeters in diameter, I made a dep hole with a 0,5 millimeters drill, very deep.

By a very sharp kinfe I have cutted many little "rings" from this holed rod, obtaining in this way a large number of plasticard "rings" with an internal diameter of 0,5 mm and one external of 0,8 mm.

Then I took a brass wire, 0,8 mm in diameter and I have cutted each stanchion, that was a bit turned with a couple on plier, to have the right angle (verifying with a drawing on a paper)

Then, for each stanchion, I have glued (using cyanoacrilate glue) three rings for each stanchion : one at the top and two on the lower part.

Then I have drilled holes over the tuttet roof and I have inserted each stanchions into holes, glueing by cyanoacrilate.

So, at this point I got all the stanchions ready, with all "rings" aligned.

Using again a copper wire, 0,4 mm, I have stretched it over a round form, to get a large "curve" of the wire and I have inserted the wire into each ring, cutting the ends and glueing it at the end.

Then, again with matt white acrylic, using a brush, i have painted all the stanchions and railings....

So I got the result !!

CI hope it was clear as explanation. If not, let me to know.... :-)
Ciao

JP

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:03 pm 
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JP,

Very good explanation. Thank you. I've thought on multiple ways to do those turret top stanchions, but never considered using styrene rod and rings. I guess I thought it wouldn't be strong enough (I tend to WAY over build my models), but now I'll give it a try when I find need. I don't think Carondelet will need any, but I've got a few more monitors I want to scratch build.

Thanks!

-Devin

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:24 am 
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Hi, Devin

the strenght of the way how I made the top stanchions is very great... great enough to take up the circular rail, in any case :-)

By the way, I would like to see some pics of your Carondelet model, because I'm a great fan of Pook' Turtles and I made, some years ago, a 1:100 scale model of USS Cairo

I want also send you a pic of USS Roanoke, took in one of the last contest here in Italy... the ship is not finished yet, but this is one of the most "impressive"pics I took....

I hope you'll like it too...

let me to know if there is something more you would like to know...

Cheers
JP


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USS ROANOKE-tagliata.jpg
USS ROANOKE-tagliata.jpg [ 131.96 KiB | Viewed 1797 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:32 pm 
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JP,

That's a great photo. Is the flag cloth, or some other material?

I'd like to see some close-up shots of how you attached the stays (rigging) to the stack and the deck.

My Carondelet is still very much in progress. All of the photos I've taken you can see here:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=50309

-Devin

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:38 pm 
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Devin wrote:
JP,

That's a great photo. Is the flag cloth, or some other material?

I'd like to see some close-up shots of how you attached the stays (rigging) to the stack and the deck.

My Carondelet is still very much in progress. All of the photos I've taken you can see here:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=50309

-Devin


Hi, Devin
many thanks for your words
I have seen your pics of the USS Carondelet model...indeed very impressive and interesting one.
Many years ago I made a 1:100 scale model of USS Cairo, but let me to say that your model seems very much better than mine...and it's interesting your spread use of styrene on this model... very well done !!!
(if you like I'll post some pics of my Cairo model)

Speaking about the flags, are some years (and some models) I'm using my own way to amke them.
They're not tissue, but they're ink-jet printed on a very thin paper that I found every time I buy a new man shirt (I'm working as a businessman in an IT company and you can understan that I use A LOT of shirts, neckties and business suites... :-) )

Anyway, in the packaging of a new shirt, usually, on the back of it there is a sheet of a near-transparent paper, very thin.
I attach a square of such paper on a printer-sheet (A4 format) and then, using a graphic program (such PowerPoint or CorelDraw) I print with a color ink-jet printer on this paper, using the higher resolution.

The flags are draught in left and right side, one near the other from the flag-pole part so to have two specular images of the same flag.

When the print is done and dry, I cut with a sharp blade very carefully the two-sides flag, leaving them attached in the side towards the pole, and I put a very thin rope inside this side of the flag, fixing it with cyanoacrilate glue.

Then, closing one side over the other, I glue the flag ONLY around the external borders and so I got a very thin flag printed on both sides. At this point, with the use of a tweezer, I model the movement of the flag trying to give it the right appearance.

When I'm satisfied of the look, I spray all the flag with an clear transparent (matt) acrylic paint and when it dries, the flag is ready to be mounted on her pole.... that's all !!! much more simple to make that not to say :-)

Ah... I'll take some pics of the stays of the stack on the deck... the stays are made by a very thin metallic wire (usually copper), and to fix it I use to put the end into the rings (where the stay ends) and by a pair of tweezer I put back the end in order to fix the stay. Then I put a drop of superglue to fix all and at the end, by a brush, I paint the wire along its lenght...

That's all also in this case....

Have a good time for modeling
Ciao

JP

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:01 pm 
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I am very fascinated with all the info about ironclads here.When I was a wee lad,there wasn,t to much money for models and certainly none of these. I would go to TENESSEE and visit uncles and aunts and hit the museums everywhere that had the old(To me at that time) paintings of all these interesting ships. I would then go home to ARKANSAS and totally upset my dad by turning his shop into an ironclad toy building shop. I guess I probably built about twenty and used motors and battery boxes from the wood speedboats that were sold in stores then. My dad never could figure why I wanted those speedboats!!. When he saw the group (about eight of them) in the duckpond in "battle: he just smiled and got out his old brownie and shot the boats on the water! I now wish I still had those pictures.There is a chance I will acquire a resin model of an ironclad,time will tell. Thanks for some very interesting,informative and entertaining photos and printed info.Now I know why I enrolled here. commodore4


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:58 am 
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Hello guys!


This is a really fascinating thread with a great museum photo tour and some excellent models! :thumbs_up_1:

A somewhat neglected era from the mainstream of WW2

Good to see you chaps building these ships--I shall be dropping every so often to admire !

JIM Baumann- still stuck on French Pre-dreadreadnoughts!!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:38 pm 
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Alright fellows, I need some answers. Specifically, on the subject of turret roofs. First off, and this should be the easiest, what is the general consensus on Monitors turret? Was the roof iron plate? Or wooden beams, as is most often shown? What about Passaic? Is the consensus still perforated sheet metal? Canonicus? The plans I have appear to show simple metal sheets, four across, how does that fit in? What about Onondaga? I'm going through my monitor kits and making corrections, and I'd like to do a proper job of it. Thanks in advance! I'll try to post some pictures of my monitors in the near future.

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