The Ship Model Forum

Hi,

I think you would all find it useful to read the Squadron book as there is quite a lot of useful text in it. You'll see, for example, that the boat numbers for the S-38 types were not a continuous run. S-101 to S-135 were S-38 class boats. With this class, the issue of numerals can be confusing because boats 101 and onwards were built concurrently with lower numbered S-38 boats, and as yet there is no definitive record of which boats were completed as 'b' types.

Concerning splotch camouflage on a Kalotte (armored bridge boat) the Squadron book shows one example, S-91, and explains it was most likely a temporary measure for a daylight transfer of the 6th Flotille from Finland to Germany. S-91 was an S-38b boat, and it sounds like the one Dave Gregory describes is also an b type, without the stern 3,7 or 4cm Flak.

Judging by the photos, anything but the white night-fighting camo on an armored bridge boat is extremely unusual. AFAIK no photographic evidence has yet turned up of any S-100 with a camo pattern. The one pattern that keeps reappearing in the popular literature appears to have come from a drawing in Modelist Konstruktor magazine, for which there is simply no documentation. The cover illustration of this magazine likewise shows an undocumented camouflage scheme.

Concerning the big H&C book, the text, captions and drawings are unfortunately not reliable. There are numerous obvious errors and contradictions throughout the book and I've given up on it as anything but a source for pictures.

The discord is counter-productive so I hope you guys will cut Mr. Connelly some slack I see no reason interpret any of his posts as hostile.

Enjoy your Schnellboot model building
Sincerely,
Dave
http://www.vectorcut.com

Hello Garth,

You know, I respect both yourself and Dave immensely as well as anyone else who researches, writes, or creates. Have a few sources present including some German and Spanish ones. Only cannot pin down the boats with camo. Hummelschen's book has the laid down, completed, commissioned dates. I should be able to track this down.

Just did not wish to pass on incorrect information. Sort of like saying "Yep there sure was a green Indiana." I have to be careful as my brother stills recalls when I gave him incorrect info when we were kids regarding a WWII movie.

Hello Dave from Vectorcut.

Thanks for the post. Completely resolves the 6th Flotilla(all S38 types) and the Spanish boats queries.

Well, I suppose an S38b it will have to be. No problem to remove mid guns and adjust some deck items. Issue settled.

Folks....It is a pleasure to ask and receive info.

You know, I have been a decade in researching a topic for publication purposes and still uncover new facts which place different perspectives on events.

Take care everyone.

To all,
I sent Garth the photo I have. Felix has it also. If anyone else wants it write me off-line.

_________________
Dave G.
The PT Dockyard/Shangri-La Ironworks
http://www.ptdockyard.com

Hi Felix

If you are converting your S-100 kit to an S-38b you will again find the Schnellboot in Action book useful. Some minor errors notwithstanding, page 20 features the only published diagram of this S-38 subtype, in both plan and side view.

Unfortunately, the process would be more involved than a simple weapons fit changeover. There is a very nice article online about a conversion from S-100 to S-38:

http://www.modellmarine.de/phpwebsite/i ... sition=9:9

My recommendation is to overcome the camouflage fixation and build an S-100 in white night-fighting scheme. Splotches were intended to break up the lines of a vessel, which is not, IMHO, a desirable effect when you are building a sleek attack craft.

Sincerely,
Dave
http://www.vectorcut.com




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I've also heard that the S boat captains were free to experiment with a more effective camo pattern, and there were many diffrent unofficial paint schemes tried.

Anyone else heard this????

Ric

_________________
Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

To All,

I must apologize for something I stated earlier this week. I seemed to have confused nationalaties up. I confused the Finns and Danes with each other. I think this added to the why Mr. Gregory took me to task ...

Garth

In my research, which is ongoing, camouflage schemes for small vessels were determined on a Flotille level, though the actual application was left to individual crews, resulting in some variation. As the war progressed, and as daylight operations became less frequent, pattern camouflage was less often applied to S-boats and possibly phased out in favor of the white night-fighting scheme.

Sincerely,
Dave
http://www.vectorcut.com

So, therefore, I think it's "safe" for me to state for the record that - until someone finds photographic evidence of a S-100 Class boat in a camouflage scheme (I think that Mr. Krakow will be your best bet for anyone being able to do so, he has a great knack for finding things that others cannot) no S-100 Class boat ever wore anything else BUT Schnellbootweis scheme, what Mr. Krakow refers to as a night-fighting scheme. The only Kalotte bridged Schnellboote that carried camouflage were the S-38b Class boats.

Garth

_________________
"You've got a question, I've got an answer."

Hey guys, I moved this thread to the calling all ship fans. i think the camo database and references alone make this thread worthy of keeping.

Ric

_________________
Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

Fine by me Dude .............

_________________
"You've got a question, I've got an answer."

Reid,

Here a few links that can help get you started on 1/72 scale. Most have used camera motors or something similar to keep the weight down. I got my metal props from a buddy on SubPirates. His prop source is shown within the 3rd link.

If you want to go to a larger scale & still stay on a workable budget, I can't recommend TJ's S-100 highly enough. It's a very well crafted FRP kit that I am looking forward to building this winter. Loyalhanna & Scale Shipyard carry it in the States.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1980520/tm.htm

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthre ... hnellboote

http://www.subpirates.com/viewtopic.php?t=1558

http://www.prinzeugen.com/SBOATIND.htm

_________________
"China is a sleeping giant. Let her sleep, for when she wakes she will shake the world." ~ Napoleon Bonaparte

those look great. she looks really good in the water!!!

Reid

Did you use any props form Ships n' things?? I am thinking of replacing the prop on my corvette. also I have a Dumas motor built for 30+inch boats can you recommend a very very very quiet gears box or a different ESC (preferred) to bring down the RPMs!!!

Reid

Hi,

I picked up the Revell Boot and WEM PE and Squadron book yesterday and have been cruising the net for info. It looks like everything stopped a while ago. Has anyone resolved the prop problem, it seems the Classic Warships replacements are no longer available? Can the originals be reworked?

Also is there any info about dealing with the forward gun tub? The Eugen site was kind of vague and never finished the build.

I bablefished all the German pages I could find.

Any help with detailing info would be appreciated.

Danke,

Kurt

Hello Kurt,

Yes, you're correct in assuming that "it seems the Classic Warships replacements are no longer available" ... I was lucky that I was able to buy one of the last sets from either Trident Hobbies or Pacific Hobbies. But, why don't you ask if anyone on the various boards if they have a set. Or, check Ebay or even Great Hobbies ...

Yes, the build on http://www.prinzeugen.com was stopped because the project was taken over and completed by another modeler. The build was described in an article on http://www.ptboatworld.com in the model section.

Garth

_________________
"You've got a question, I've got an answer."

hallo all,

To all who are interested , Italeri is planning to release an S-100 type E-boat in scale 1/35 this year. I am really looking forward to this kit (sorry to intervene all the post with this announcement , which has nothing to do with camouflage).

regards,

ludwig

Actually, it looked to me like they were doing TWO of them; one armored bridge and one standard.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

A source from Italeri told me the S-100 Skull-cap in 1:35 and the MAS-61 in 1:72 Tracy ..................

Garth

_________________
"You've got a question, I've got an answer."

AHhh... see, my lack of knowledge yet again asserts itself. I was looking at this and thinking the MAS-61 was the earlier version.....

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman