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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:46 pm 
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I’m going to start a general 1/700 IJN accessory review thread so as to try and keep everything together. I sense much that much of our commentary & information on these sets may be inadvertently slipping away. We already have one review thread dedicated to 1/700 IJN 12.7cm HA AA weapons & I see no need to include that here (see: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=90393 ) At some point, a separate thread for 1/350 IJN accessories might be a good idea as well.

My current 1/700 Yugumo DD builds have allowed me to re-examine numerous DD related accessories with regard to accuracy, detail and scale, starting with the 12.7cm main turrets. So, I’m going to share some interesting observations about the turrets.

Until the advent of the original Pit-Road Equipment sets, and then the Leviathan/Waterline Consortium sets, modelers were limited to whatever turrets came with the original kit. That changed with the release of the Pit-Road E-2, E-3 and later, the E-10 sets. These sets contain nicely detailed IJN DD turrets for several classes, and have proven to be a nice alternative to many kit turrets. The WL consortium also released a small vessel ordinance fret with IJN DD turrets for several classes. While I liked the simplicity of this set’s twin barrels as one piece to marry to the turret, the detailing seemed less crisp, and the turrets undersized.

In the last 2-3 years (?), both FineMolds and PitRoad have released new 1/700 IJN accessory sets that take advantage of CAD & slide molding to produce even finer, more accurate accessory equipment. FineMolds has yet to release a set with turrets, but, with its pending release of a set dedicated to torpedo mounts (WA20), a turret set may yet appear.

In the meantime, Pit-Road’s new NE05 accessory set does offer a turret. Whereas their first four NE series of sets each revolved around a general equipment concept (torpedoes, tubes & shields; boats; AA weapons and directors, etc.), this set is focused on IJN destroyers, specifically the Type A classes (Asashio, Kagero, Yugumo). This set is more narrowly focused then the E-10 set, which covers a broader ranger of DD classes. Photos below give a better indication of each set's make up. The E-10 set is missing two of its three triple 61cm TT mounts, but that shouldn’t matter for comparison’s sake. More to come on the actual turret comparison.


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E-10 set.JPG
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NE05 sprue c.JPG
NE05 sprue c.JPG [ 102.92 KiB | Viewed 5775 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:58 pm 
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Hey Dan,

Great idea mate, I have many of these sets and can add to this post.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:01 pm 
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Dan.
That is great!
Joe


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:46 pm 
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I’m glad this thread meets a need.

On the NE05 turrets themselves: Up to this point, I‘ve pretty much used the turrets from the E-10 set for my Type A builds, modifying them to include side ventilation ports, stiffening bands, & rear turret slide doors (for ejecting spent shells), as none of the previous offerings provided for these necessary details. Amazingly, the new turrets off the NE05 set already contain all of these details, very finely rendered, so no scratchbuilding is needed. What a time-saver!

I think the blast bags are perfectly formed, sized and fitted, which I’ve never been able to say about prior versions. The gunlayer viewports are perfectly sized in height relative to the turret roof for the Type C/D turret that this unit represents.

Prior to this new version, I’d never actually measured out the turrets and compared them for scale accuracy. Using dimensions given in the Gran Prix Shuppan IJN DD book, I’d say that these turrets are dimensionally correct. Which is wonderful. Previously, I’d thought that the turrets provided by the retooled Aoshima Kagero kits were the most correct, but these NE05 units are clearly more correct, though a bit smaller than the Aoshima units. (I will cover the Fujimi Kagero turrets as part of the next post.)

IMHO, these new units are currently the best available, but there are still a few qualifiers to be considered. Starting with the least important:

• All IJN DD turrets had some assortment of hand grab rails mounted on them. Previous kit and accessory versions only provided for some molded on rails in the center of the turret top. The NE05 versions have added a very finely rendered rail along the edge of the top (as seen in the photo of NE05 sprue c above). Truthfully, any version’s grab rails are way overscale for 1/700, and really inappropriate, but it does provide for some nice detail. I considered trimming them off but, it’s far more work than necessary. I can live with it.
• The barrels are very nicely rendered, and tapered. I’ve thought about leaving them on, but, they are so easy to bend that I think I will replace them with brass rod. Some may wish to consider proper 1/700 brass barrels, but that would be a pricey addition for me. I have to draw the line somewhere. :smallsmile:
• Six identical turrets come with each boxing. Each turret comes with two horizontal stiffening bands. For accuracy’s sake, know that only the Yugumo class DDs and Shimakaze carried the Type D turret, which did carry the stiffening bands on all three turrets. The earlier Type A classes, the Asashios and the Kageros, only carried stiffening bands on #1 turret. (This also applies to earlier IJN DD classes and their respective turret types.) So, using the NE05 turrets for the earlier Type A classes will require removing the bands on turret #s 2 & 3 to maintain true accuracy. Removal should be too hard with careful application of a blade and some light sanding, as the bands are easily accessible.
• These turrets come molded in two pieces, aside from the two barrel/blast bags per mount. There is the usual turret, and a bottom piece, with molded stiffening struts and base ring. All wonderful detail, but it poses an unexpected problem with the addition of the base ring. Virtually all 1/700 Type DD kits currently on the market, with the exception of the Fujimi Kagero class kits, already come with a turret base ring molded on the deck. Using the new NE05 turret on top of one of these will render the turret as too tall on its base. So, one has to sand off the bottom ring from the turret, or remove the base ring from a deck. It will be easier to sand off the turret mounted ring. To illustrate this last bullet point, I took a couple of silhouette photos. On the left below, is the new NE05 turret unaltered, sitting on top of the base ring in #2 position. Below that is a turret from the E-10 in the same position. The NE05 turret is clearly taller off the base. It’s just not right.

I still have actual comparison shots of six different turrets to post, soon.


Attachments:
NE05 Type C-D turret, unmodified.JPG
NE05 Type C-D turret, unmodified.JPG [ 82.8 KiB | Viewed 5691 times ]
E-10 Type C-D turret.JPG
E-10 Type C-D turret.JPG [ 93.83 KiB | Viewed 5691 times ]
Head to head.JPG
Head to head.JPG [ 55.52 KiB | Viewed 5691 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:12 pm 
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Following on from Dans excellent post here's some info on the IJN's 25mm Shielded triple mounts.

These weapons are available from a variety of manufacturers, Tamiya, Pitt-Road, Fujimi, and Fine Moulds (Nano Dread Series).

After looking over all the various ones, I have to give the thumbs up to the Fine Moulds for detail, though they are missing the small hand rail that is shown on the box art they do have the shutters moulded on, a feature lacking in the others. The Fujimi ones that are available are taken from their various ship kits and boxed as seperate detail sets, I have included a pic of the ones from the new Super Yamato with the twin 20 inch guns.

First up the Fine Moulds, Fujimi Yamato, then Pitt Road , then Tamiya and a shot of the Fine Moulds ones next to the Fujimi Yamato mounts.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:17 pm 
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These photos are a comaparison of the Fine Moulds and Fujimi ones


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File comment: Fine Moulds on the right
IMG_0243.jpg
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File comment: Fine Moulds on the left
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:43 pm 
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Good stuff, and I'd have to agree with Bill on the FM 25mm mount versions. While I still have a little more to say on the DD turrets, let me add some more visuals to Bill's topic. Navy Yard volume #17 actually laid out a comparison among different types of equipment, as did a Model Graphix issue last fall. I'll post them as this thread rolls along.

If any of our Japanese language compadres (Gernot, are you reading this :smallsmile: ?) could chime in with proper translations, that would be helpful. In lieu of that:

For the twin 25mm mount comparison photo below, I believe the versions are -
a) Waterline consortium
b) New Aoshima Soryu kit
c) FineMolds NanoDread set WA1
d) PitRoad E-5 set
e) Fujimi new version 1, kit uncertain
f) Fujimi new version 2, I believe this is their std. 25mm weapons sprue
g) PitRoad NE01 set

For the single 25mm mount comparison photo below, I believe the versions are -
a) Fujimi new version 1, I believe this is their std. 25mm weapons sprue
b) Fujimi new version 2, kit uncertain
c) PitRoad NE01 set
d) Hasegawa Myoko kit
e) FineMolds NanoDread set WA12
f) PitRoad E-5 set

At the bottom, separately displayed, is the FineMolds triple mount.


Attachments:
NYvol 17 #2small.jpg
NYvol 17 #2small.jpg [ 143.64 KiB | Viewed 5632 times ]


Last edited by Dan K on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:00 pm 
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Dan,

It would appear to my untrained eye that the FineMolds representation of the 25 mm guns is the most accurate, correct? I have the IJN Soryu kit and her AA looks grossly overscale (as do most AA guns in 1/700 scale.)

I was surprised to see your preference of the FineMolds molded hand grabs. I guess even my usual PE additions are grossly overscale.

Thank you for these pictures. I fear I may have to frustrate the wife further with a massive FreeTime purchase.

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Current builds:
1/350 Kongo, 1944 w/Flyhawk Gold Medal set.
1/700 USS Vesuvius
1/700 Kongo, 1915 w/Kajika's extras and spare stuff


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:01 pm 
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I've a few more comments & pics on the DD turrets.

First off, I have erred slightly in stating that the new NE05 versions don't match up well with the turret bases that come molded on the decks. The NE05 versions are correct in their depiction of the turret base, with its molded on support ring. This ring does, in turn, sit on a slightly wider base ring on the deck. The issue of sitting too high seems to be most prevalent with the Aoshima kits, as their deck mounted rings are on the high side. It may be less so for the Pitroad kits. If possible, sanding down the Aoshima versions to half their height would be a good solution.

Ok, now some side by side comparisons. For photo #s 1,2 &4, the order remains, left to right:

a) PitRoad Cruiser -Destroyer set; I think this is E-3
b) PitRoad E-10 DD set
c) Waterline Consortium Small Vessel Ordinance set
d) Aoshima new tool Kagero class
e) Fujimi new tool Kagero class
f) PitRoad NE05 set

Photo #s 3 & 5 have the order reversed.

Th Fujimi turret is very similar to the NE05 turret, just a little larger (particularly in length) and made of slightly softer styrene.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:09 pm 
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PG, yes, IMHO, the FineMolds 25mm AA mount is the most accurate.

As far as the handrails go, you have to keep in mind that they were probably no more than an inch thick, and placed less than 6 inches away from the surface, usually around 4 inches/100mm. So, how do you represent that in 1/700, where the thinnest plastic strips are .01" thick, which is a scale 7"?

Slide molding helps, which is why I'm generally ok with something molded on as fine as FineMolds has done here. I generally shy away from PE representations, though I freely admit that I've done it for the grab rails mounted on DD bridge base facings. It's very subjective. I won't do it for funnels or turret sides, but that's my aesthetic. Everyone has to choose for themselves. Scale-wise, of course, all of it is incorrect.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:48 am 
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Dan K wrote:

For the single 25mm mount comparison photo below, I believe the versions are -
a) Fujimi new version 1, I believe this is their std. 25mm weapons sprue
b) Fujimi new version 2, kit uncertain

a)is from Fujimi IJN Tone and IJN Chikuma kits.
b)is their standard 25mm weapons sprue


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:52 pm 
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Hello from France !
Thank you for this interesting review !
I just also spent my today afternoon at analysing the differents sets of several brands, I regularly buy in Japan, during my business trips.
First of all I also definitely recommend the Fine Molds Nano-Dread amazing series ! very impressive for plastic...
But I also recentely discovered the japanese brand (Resin + PE) Ocean Spirit: http://os2010.com/Home/Default.aspx and the US brand Alliance Modelworks: http://www.am-works.com/store/sea-c-1.html, and they are doing still better sets.
Lion Roar from Hong-Kong (http://www.lionroar.net/) also makes very good sets, like their IJN small boats.
Same for the australian brand Rainbow (http://www.bnamodelworld.com/rainbow).

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- "End of a Greywolf", 1/700 diorama
- "La défaite", 1/72 France 40' AFV diorama


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:21 pm 
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Eric33 wrote:
Hello from France !

But I also recentely discovered the japanese brand (Resin + PE) Ocean Spirit: http://os2010.com/Home/Default.aspx

Hello :)
I will be in France(in Châlons-sur-Marne) for Easter Orthodox holiday visiting some friends.
On the topic, Ocean Spirit is indeed awesome, I have used them on my recent IJN Mutsu project with impressive results.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:29 pm 
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I love ocean spirt ! By far one of my faverits. I have there stud on many of my kits for the past year or two!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:35 am 
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WOW... just looked at the Ocean Spirit webpage. I assume they ship to the CONUS?

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Current builds:
1/350 Kongo, 1944 w/Flyhawk Gold Medal set.
1/700 USS Vesuvius
1/700 Kongo, 1915 w/Kajika's extras and spare stuff


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:17 pm 
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Thx for the translation, Atma.

I am not yet familiar with Ocean Spirit, but I can certainly vouch for LioRoar, Rainbow and Allince. Lately, I've taken a real shine to Rainbow PE; many offerings fill niches not offered by the other manufacturuers. Someone at Rainbow is very heads-up. Incidentally, Rainbow is Chinese, not Australian - Hong Kong based, I believe. I've also grown to favor FlyHawk over LionRoar and Voyager items. Easier to use, I think.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:17 pm 
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Oh yes, Dan, Rainbow too rocks. Ocean Spirit and Rainbow (what poetic names, by the way)from the "cult" companies are the best. Fine Molds and the NEW Pit-Road(not the old sets) on the other hand is more mainstream and easy available, cause for example I can only find Rainbow and Ocean Spirit products at E-Bay.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:42 am 
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I just ordered Ocean Spirit's 12.7 cm guns and their protective sandbags. I can put up some pictures when I get them in, if ya'll want. The items are coming in from China (and will be used on an old Hasagawa Kirishima + accessories I got from USN Chief) so expect earliest post next week.

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Current builds:
1/350 Kongo, 1944 w/Flyhawk Gold Medal set.
1/700 USS Vesuvius
1/700 Kongo, 1915 w/Kajika's extras and spare stuff


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:37 am 
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Atma, you can order Rainbow thru Hobbeasy.com, HK based. There's also an Australian hobbysite, whose name eescapes me at the moment, that carries Rainbow. See: http://www.hobbyeasy.com/


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:03 pm 
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Hi Dan,
I see Pacific Front carries one Rainbow IJN Destroyer set!
Joe


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