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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:08 am 
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What an inspirational build this is. Awesome job on the scratchbuilding!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:11 pm 
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One must have built such parts in this scale to appreciate the fine work that Willie is accomplishing. The completed ship will be both detailed and authentic!

Cheers: Tom


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:00 pm 
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Hi there, Tom, Bas and all modelers,

Thanks very much for your always encouraging remarks.

Long time ago since the last update. I was away from home for the whole of August, and then with the beginning of the new school year, I simply had no time to build at all. Now I am restricted to the sick bay, and will be stranded for a whole week, so I will try to give this thing a kick.


Fliger747 wrote:
Very clean and sharp work, one of the advantages of working with styrene!


I absolutely concur. This styrene is a pleasure to deal with, and as it blends wonderfully and cleanly with the liqu¡d poly, it leaves nothing to be desired.

I am in the process of detailing the bridge at the moment, so the next step was chairs and small stuff in the bridge wings:
Attachment:
(938).jpg
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Attachment:
(939).jpg
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Voice pipes and other stuff:
Attachment:
(940).jpg
(940).jpg [ 150.88 KiB | Viewed 518 times ]

The flag boxes were very easy to build, but extremely complicated to fix in place, as I could find only one single close-up picture of how it was attached to the deck and the bulwarks, and this had to be updated to the Spanish Navy and the height of the rear cabin underneath, not too high nor too low, without making a mess with liquid poly. But I think I have got it.
Attachment:
(941).jpg
(941).jpg [ 166.02 KiB | Viewed 518 times ]

And some more views of how the lot is, as for now:
Attachment:
(942).jpg
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Attachment:
(943).jpg
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(944).jpg
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Attachment:
(945).jpg
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I will try to detail the cabin tomorrow, as I think I have gathered enough pic fot this, but I would really appreciate if somebody could add pictures of the inner sides of the bridge outer bulwarks, aft of the bridge wings.

Thanks in advance, and very best regards from this side of the stormy Atlantic,

Willie.

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Amen dico tibi, hodie mecum eris in paradiso (Lk 23,43).


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2022 8:13 am 
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Willie wrote:
Quote:
if somebody could add pictures of the inner sides of the bridge outer bulwarks, aft of the bridge wings.


Well, this is not exactly an area of the bridge that you see a lot of photos, in fact, perhaps "none"! However, I have only one photo of STODDARD's stbd. side bridge bulwark from above that does show some equipment on the inside of the bulkhead just ahead of the stbd. flag bin -
Attachment:
DD-566 After Stbd Whaleboat Davit_3.jpg
DD-566 After Stbd Whaleboat Davit_3.jpg [ 79.19 KiB | Viewed 490 times ]

This was taken in 1966 or 67 so would be appropriate for your bridge, as well.

Nice work, by the way - hope this helps!

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, USS-LSM/R-194 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2022 12:15 pm 
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Willi! Nice work on the bridge area, especially the 12" searchlights and brackets. Hank's photo of Stoddard was interesting, as are photos that have been taken just of sailors lounging or at station, unintentionally showing details a modeler would appreciate. Stoddard's signal bridge is a different shape, with a taper towards the flag bag, but the shape of the reinforcing beams is interesting, a plain I beam with the top not curving, but just the beam connector (normal to the bulkhead) open and curved.

Cheers: Tom


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2022 7:58 am 
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Fantastic work! The entire bridge looks amazing! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2022 1:10 pm 
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Hi there Hank, Tom, Marijn and all friend modelers,

Thanks very much for your always very kind remarks. Glad to see you like the production.

BB62vet wrote:
This is not exactly an area of the bridge that you see a lot of photos, in fact, perhaps "none"!

Hank, you are but very right. I took some pictures of these areas onboard USS The Sullivans, but the bulkwards were virtually bare around the bridge. The picture you provide is virtually priceless: not only a Fletcher, but an operative Fletcher, and crystal clear, on top of it.

I have had to delete some of the elements that I had already done, but the results are now much better. The reference had to be the signal lamps, that were placed in a distinctive, very rear position onboard Jorge Juan, so everything had to be placed accordingly.
Attachment:
(946).jpg
(946).jpg [ 283.44 KiB | Viewed 429 times ]

If you know the what and the where, the how is not complicated. No idea what these elements are, nor if Jorge Juan had them or not, but at least the effect is excellent --and realistic, as everything onboard these ships was US Navy standard.

Thanks again for your most inmediate help, and very best regards from the North Atlantic,

Willie.

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Amen dico tibi, hodie mecum eris in paradiso (Lk 23,43).


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2022 1:48 pm 
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What was mounted on the bulwarks on the bridge will vary a lot. The USN changed/updated the "authorized" equipment as time went by. So depending on when the USN last updated/overhauled the ship transferred (in this case JORGE JUAN, ex-McGOWAN), that ship may or may not have the same equipment installed. As has been mentioned, few photos are available of this area on the bridge of FLETCHER's (or many other ships), I do have a couple of views of FLETCHER's after the mid-1950's (dtd 1956) bridge mods where pilothouse equipment was duplicated on the once open bridge front. Ironically, many photos were "TAKEN" from the aft end of the bridge next to the flagbags. The images I have don't show much of the aft bridge wings, but in general they show fewer pieces of equipment than Hank's view from the 1970's. The images I have from that period were from photos I found in Textual Records and don't seem to be generally available.

Also, the Spanish Navy could very well make their own additions/changes to their requirements. Plus it is possible, but rare, that crews may make minor additions outside authorizations.

In the attached photos, notice the differences between the two destroyers bridge details.

So you are right not to get TOO anal about what you don't have photos of for your subject.

Image
Image
Image


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2022 5:07 pm 
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Great photos of the bridge chairs and variations as well as the presence, non presence of the foot rests. Also a good view of the dog arrangement on the pilot house door. Note the upper surface of the12" signal lamp is painted 20B!

Regards: Tom


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2022 10:18 pm 
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G-r-e-a-t!!!! So NOW he posts these photos.....After we've already built this stuff :doh_1: :cry_3: :cry_3: :cry_3: :cry_3:

:big_grin:

Hank

Willie - your bridge details look excellent, as usual!!!

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, USS-LSM/R-194 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2022 12:07 pm 
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Hi there Mr. Davis, Hank, Tom and all,

Mr. Davis, thanks a lot once more for these excellent pics. Again priceless information (probably this is due to my ignorance, but this is the first time I see the conn. chair ahead of the pelorus) and I have to disagree with Hank: as long as the thing is not painted yet, the info in always on time, and depending on what info comes after the painting, the painting itself can also be deleted.

These new pictures are useful in two directions: they reveal new details that can be added at nil price, and confirm that what has been done (voice pipes and some other small stuff) is at least OK too.
Attachment:
(948).jpg
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Attachment:
(947).jpeg
(947).jpeg [ 96.25 KiB | Viewed 382 times ]

This last picture also shows what one further element is, one that I found in one of the pictures I made onboard USS The Sullivans (the furthest aft, the same small platform I deleted yesterday :bash_2: !!!!), while it also shows how bare her bridge wings are (or were at least in the summer 2012).
Attachment:
(949).JPG
(949).JPG [ 213.29 KiB | Viewed 382 times ]

Rick E Davis wrote:
Also, the Spanish Navy could very well make their own additions/changes to their requirements. Plus it is possible, but rare, that crews may make minor additions outside authorizations. (...) So you are right not to get TOO anal about what you don't have photos of for your subject.

Absolutely true. The ship was stricken in 1988 and sold for scrap a short time afterwards, so there is little hope that such small details can come to light some day. As long as what I do is not incompatible with evidences, it can be accepted.

Thanks again for your precious help, and nice going from the Atlantic,

Willie.

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Amen dico tibi, hodie mecum eris in paradiso (Lk 23,43).


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2022 6:57 pm 
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Of course Commander Willie is authorized to make whatever alteration, deletions or additions of small items during yard periods to HIS ship.

I did laugh at one of the officers (Caine Mutiny) joking about having to get BuShips authorization to weld a bunk to the hull, being a hull alteration.

Added items should always be plausible and useful.

Regards: Tom


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2022 5:23 am 
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Hi there Tom and all,
Fliger747 wrote:
Of course Commander Willie is authorized to make whatever alteration, deletions or additions of small items during yard periods to HIS ship.

Sir, aye aye, sir. :thumbs_up_1:
And then, following your advice, and abusing your patience and your expertise, in this order, would somebody know what this element is and would have some clearer picture of it, or directions as where to find one ?
Attachment:
(950).jpg
(950).jpg [ 123.95 KiB | Viewed 347 times ]

It seems to me some aiming device, or the pair of binoculars I would love to have in my living room, and as it was present in USS Halsey Powell and The Sullivans it seems to be pretty much standard equipment, so in both cases it would be acceptable in my bridge, but I am not sure of what I am adding.

Thanks in advance for your interest, and best regards from this side,

Willie.

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Amen dico tibi, hodie mecum eris in paradiso (Lk 23,43).


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2022 8:40 am 
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Willie,

That object appears to be a bulwark mounted binocular stand - I've not found another photo or drawing of it at all. The photo is from 1956 so it very well could have been a modified Sky Lookout mount cut down from the WWII version of the Sky Lookout Chair & Binocular Stand. It appears to have one of the large bridge binoculars mounted with a pair of handles for maneuvering. We had either 2 or 4 of these on NEW JERSEY (011 Level) and if I can find the photo in my cruise book, I'll post it. The binocular mount looks to be simply a plate welded to a pipe stanchion and that welded to the bulwark. The binocular mount was probably removeable from the stand.

As both of my TFD Plan Books show items from WWII, this equipment is not included.

Hope this helps (somewhat... :doh_1: )

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, USS-LSM/R-194 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2022 11:51 am 
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Yes, those are 20 power (20x120) bridge binoculars. I printed some on a pedestal for use on several models though as shown here can be mounted on a pipe welded to a bulwark. I remember Turner Joy had sets of these mounted on the bridge wings. In the photo one of the handles used to assist in pointing can be seen.

Attachment:
Deck Binos.jpg
Deck Binos.jpg [ 166.93 KiB | Viewed 316 times ]


Cheers: Tom


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:49 am 
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Hi there Hank, Tom and all,

BB62vet wrote:
That object appears to be a bulwark mounted binocular stand -
Hope this helps

It does; any piece of info does, as everything can be useful at some moment.

I have started the binoculars sets. The items themselves were a bit tricky to build, but not that complicated. Here you are the basic elements :
Attachment:
(951).jpg
(951).jpg [ 236.42 KiB | Viewed 238 times ]

Attachment:
(952).jpg
(952).jpg [ 211.97 KiB | Viewed 238 times ]

After this I have changed the plan completely for a while, and have devoted some time to the main mast, something that I thought would be either tricky again or a real problem.

The main elements in this mast are the mast itself and the first platform, as everything else will be based in one of the two. The platform underside is not bare at all, just the opposite, and had to be done before fixing the mast itself. This is what had to be done:
Attachment:
(947).JPG
(947).JPG [ 194.9 KiB | Viewed 238 times ]

I made the platform with a piece of 1 mm. thick Evergreen plate, surrounded by a 0.25x2 mm. stripe for the contour, and completed with scraps of 2 mm. rod slices and 0.5x0.5 mm. stripe for the bars.
Attachment:
(948).jpg
(948).jpg [ 214.41 KiB | Viewed 238 times ]

I found the mast height (130 mm. high at 1/144 scale) using one full profile picture of a Fletcher (one of yours again Hank :wave_1: ) compared with a similar one of much poored quality of Jorge Juan herslef, and calculated the inclination (5º backwards) taking the projection of the mast to the waterline. Then I made it using 3.2 mm. tube, filled with 2 mm. rod on both ends.

After this, the real problem: the inclination of the mast.

I had anticipated drawing a plan on paper, setting the inclination and fixing the two elements by sheer eyesight, the same process that I followed when I built the masts of F81 Santa María, but alas, the solution was waaaayyyyy easier: I took a screen shot of the picture I had used for the calculations, printed it and used it as the plan for the process.
Attachment:
(949).jpg
(949).jpg [ 228.12 KiB | Viewed 238 times ]

Attachment:
(950).jpg
(950).jpg [ 282.25 KiB | Viewed 238 times ]

The scales of the ship in the pic and my models are obviously not the same, but the profile is, and the picture is also big enough to make the attaching process reliable.

The piece at the bottom of the mast is a 4.5 mm. structure to have the mast and platform even while the glue is drying.

And now I have started the mast, have the main guns almost ready, the a/a battery also nearly finished, the structures in process, the bridge almost there too... but virtually nothing finished yet. I have the feeling of being playing all the keys in a piano, with no melody coming out of it. Does it happen to you too ????

Nice going, and very best regards from the North Atlantic,

Willie.

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Amen dico tibi, hodie mecum eris in paradiso (Lk 23,43).


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:16 pm 
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Willie,
Your forward tripod mast looks good - I drew up this mast in 2D CAD quite a few years ago and then last year did some revising to small details prior to designing the whole mast in 3D for eventual 3D printing. I had the 1968 BoGP stbd profile of the ship to go by and I can't recall now the angle from straight up that the mast sits, but it is somewhere between 5 and 15 deg. Here is the side view of my 2D CAD drawing:
Attachment:
DD566 Tripod from Side.JPG
DD566 Tripod from Side.JPG [ 45.96 KiB | Viewed 228 times ]

From this I developed the 3D design and here is the result -
Attachment:
Fwd Tripod Mast_1.JPG
Fwd Tripod Mast_1.JPG [ 28.86 KiB | Viewed 228 times ]

This is actually two parts, the lower mast and upper mast. It does not include the yardarms. And here is the printed lower mast, it took approx 5 prints with modifications along the way to get to this point -
Attachment:
Lower Tripod V3A_2.jpeg
Lower Tripod V3A_2.jpeg [ 55.51 KiB | Viewed 228 times ]

The final version does include the yardarms. The upper mast I have printed (3 copies) and will eventually get it cleaned up and off it's printing supports and mated to the lower unit.

More than likely all these tripod masts were basically the same in structure, but had different instruments/RADARs/antennas depending on the ship, etc.

Keep up the good work!!!

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, USS-LSM/R-194 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:13 am 
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I wonder if the mast rake on the tripod was the same as for the pole mast? On my DE I was lucky to have drawings of the mast which specified the rake in inches per foot. As I printed the bridge structure and the mast passed through the O2 and O3 levels (anchored in the O1) I was able to accurately set up the rake in the design of the bridge structure and establish the degree of tilt required for the platforms.

All the 3D geometry is not always easy to establish!

Cheers: Tom


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:28 pm 
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Hi there Hank, Tom and all,
Fliger747 wrote:
I wonder if the mast rake on the tripod was the same as for the pole mast?

Tom, no idea what the rake for the original masts was, but it would be very easy to calculate if necessary. What I thank you also for is the new word, rake; I love to add new technical words to my naval vocabulary.
BB62vet wrote:
I can't recall now the angle from straight up that the mast sits, but it is somewhere between 5 and 15 deg.

Hank, of this I am positive, as I made the calculations very carefully: . With a 15º rake, the mast would be virtually touching the fore stack.

I have also added the upper mast, following the same process for length and rake as with the main mast. I noticed that the lower part of the said upper mast goes well below the platform it is built on, so I added the extra necessary length and cut the extreme as this. This is not too visible in many pictures, but it is obvious in the ones I took onboard USS The Sullivans.
Attachment:
(953).JPG
(953).JPG [ 184.61 KiB | Viewed 130 times ]

Attachment:
(954).jpg
(954).jpg [ 334.13 KiB | Viewed 130 times ]

I have added two rings of 0.5 mm Evergreen tubing to secure the masts, and I have also completed the underside structure of the platform:
Attachment:
(955).jpg
(955).jpg [ 233.66 KiB | Viewed 130 times ]

Attachment:
(956).jpg
(956).jpg [ 175.88 KiB | Viewed 130 times ]

As the first part of detailing, I have also added the Nancy beacons, and I will add more details inmediately.

Hank, I cannot see the lower part of the upper mast in your "black" plan. You should check it is correctly printed; otherwise, it is very easy to add a piece of sprue, and you won't need to print a new mast.

Nice going and all the best from this side,

Willie.

_________________
Amen dico tibi, hodie mecum eris in paradiso (Lk 23,43).


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:23 am 
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I have in the past similarly built masts from tube or styrene. The 1:515 Whitehurst has a brass tube mast. For the 1:144 version I was fortunate to have detailed mast plans. Interestingly the mast tapers both at the top and bottom and I was able to replicate this in my printing design. With brass for instance telescoping units can be used and putty added then the unit turned. I used this method for the main batteries on Missouri and Alaska as I did not have a lathe at the time, but the result was good. The difficulty with printed masts is that they are quite flexible. Making them hollow and reinforcing with Steel piano wire is quite effective.

At any rate you mast is coming along well and five degrees seems a reasonable number. Mine was delineated in inches per foot, or was it furlongs per fortnight?

Best regards: Tom


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