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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:07 am 
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Is really impressive and the depicted scene is nice!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2022 8:12 am 
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Gorgeously magnificent in all respects - best of luck for the completion of this demanding and protracted project!

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 4:59 am 
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Fantastic work on the figures and composition Jim! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

I'm looking forward to seeing an overview shot of the entire scene, and how it looks with the cables in place.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:17 am 
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After a few days of absence and catching up, I can only echo what the others have already said.

One thing I wondered about, was whether they would have actually dared to leave the gangway out, while the tugs were manoeuvering about SMS VULCAN. If there was a bit of tide current or similar in the Elbe River that pushed the tug against her, the gangway could be crushed ...

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:46 am 
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Thank you all ! :smallsmile:

@ marjinn I too am looking forward to seeing it completed--...I can assure you !! :big_grin:
" my Vulkan enthusiasm reserve tank" is beginning to run empty as it were...!

I was at one time planning to cheer the scene up with other vessels..mooring posts seabirds etc .--
but that would -I think=
detract from the un-glamorous task of "end of -life for Vulkan-- ergo no joy, no colour and monotone dead sea

( sort of a Teutonic German version of the "Fighting Temeraire...)"

https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/pain ... -temeraire
( read the description box...

If I can make them look plausible--there may be a couple of Seagulls to witness ...

@ Wefalck ..Possibly fair comment ref the accoms ladder - but... :big_grin:

In my narrative... :cool_1: :cool_2:
The stream is just about slack-- hence no current water drag in the buoy or Vulkan

The buoy release gang will drop off 3 x crew from the the Gig to the Vulkan once the vessel
has been released--hence still need to get on...board ...

....and

The Schelde tug had to be able to transfer its own guys on board .., ( doppelt haelt besser ! _)

( honest --they did ! --hence to make the point...

" I had the skilful skipper manoeuvre the vessel astern
so that the warp securing chaps( stern warps for Schelde ) could make the precarious hop from the Tug rubbing strake
to accoms ladder.... ""

Attachment:
transfer tugboat experts  to Vulkan.....jpg
transfer tugboat experts to Vulkan.....jpg [ 613.97 KiB | Viewed 506 times ]

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:58 am 
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It is usually positioned just above the bulkwark to avoid this problem if the sea is calm.

Otherwise, the ladder and the gangway are combined.

Image

Actual IMO regulation:
Image

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:05 pm 
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@ Iceman.... Ha! cannot argue with the evidence....! :-? ...

well-- hmnnn !

I carry on further bending my narrative of the scene ...
==> .... to suit the now immovable accommodation ladder... !

( none of these operations may be entirely correct alas...)
sometimes ever more information is the curse... :big_grin: :cool_1:

-- but the Modelled scene ought now to self-illustrate to the observer/viewer what is going on on within the Diorama.... (?!)

( all the cables / towlines / warps and rope-stacks and -coils have been made
of various diameters of copper wire;
Copper being soft and malleable--
it can be formed into believable shapes.. - I think (! ) :wave_1:



..."" the aft Gangway ladder was set to a low level....
so as to imminently be able to recover some of the crew-men from the Rowing Gig
after they have cast of the cables from the buoy..

=> meanwhile he master of the 'Schelde' took advantage of slackening tide and the lowered ladder --and simply placed his tug in position so as to allow the 2 x crew to hop off....-- fortunately there was very little wind in this sheltered part of the Elbe,- so water was flat...""
:cool_2:

meanwhile.... I spotted these platforms some time ago

Attachment:
platforms 2.jpg
platforms 2.jpg [ 542.75 KiB | Viewed 458 times ]



- but saw in my collection of images no positive confirmation of their actual presence on the ship
until I found THIS ' fresh ' image on-line.... seems like recently uploaded...( dohh! )

Attachment:
platforms 1.jpg
platforms 1.jpg [ 615.49 KiB | Viewed 458 times ]



So I found in my PE stash some suitable brass grating material ,
cut and filed the platforms to shape and installed them on slightly raised very small legs (!)

Attachment:
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P1130690.jpg [ 1.91 MiB | Viewed 458 times ]


Continuing on with the fictive narrative... :cool_2:

"" The cable releasing gang are now busy retrieving the released line...

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The Towline from the Bow to RETTER had been attached and is ready to be payed out gently
once the buoy is released and the pulling Boat is clear; the line has just dipped into the water

Attachment:
P1130694.jpg
P1130694.jpg [ 936.41 KiB | Viewed 458 times ]


Schelde will take up the warp aft - to her Bow-- to control the VULKAN's stern movements in case of waywardness in wind or stream until clear in open water....
-as Vulkan is dead in the water with no steam up to power her steering gear


Attachment:
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Schelde has the tow line for the long pull to Harwich - ready on deck,

so once she takes up position ahead of Vulkan alongside the RETTER...""

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Attachment:
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I am however thinking of still 'darkening the 2 x towing hawsers somewhat

any thoughts thereto?



onward to the final push!

JIM B :wave_1:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:55 am 
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Vet nice model Jim, it really tells the story. And Iceman, the scene predates the IMO by some 30 ish years. I have also seen similar scenes on a very lively Schelde in the 1980s. Strict enforcement of safety rules like this is a fairly recent thing.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:16 am 
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I think towing-lines at that time were usually made of coir, i.e. cocos-fibres, because such lines are lighter than water and float, hence no tendency to get into propellers. So the lines should have the colour of doormats ...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:37 am 
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JIM BAUMANN wrote:
@ Iceman.... Ha! cannot argue with the evidence....! :-? ...


Image COMMANDER IN CHIEF HOME FLEET RELINQUISHES HIS POST. DECEMBER 1940, ON BOARD THE FLAGSHIP, HMS NELSON. ADMIRAL OF THE FLEET SIR CHARLES FORBES, RELINQUISHING HIS POST AS C IN C HOME FLEET TO TAKE UP COMMAND AS C IN C PLYMOUTH. ADMIRAL JOHN CRONYN TOVEY TOOK OVER FROM ADMIRAL FORBES.. © IWM (A 2164) IWM Non Commercial License

More evidence it is then :wave_1: ... plenty pics with ladders dipping in the water.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:23 am 
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Thank you all for your kind words ,
and ' rescue -trump-card' image.. EJ... :wave_1:

I have copied this into the main Forum also just in case...
Your thoughts?...

The SMS VULKAN, as in 1919--

-in the process of being towed away
from the mouth of the Elbe River ( Hamburg) to Harwich in England for breaking up/scrapping.
( war reparations-- ( and vessel obsolete/ superseded -ergo no interest to the English or the Germans...

So --to the question of flags...--

Both ocean going Tugs , one German RETTER ( 1885 ) and one ex-Dutch SCHELDE 1906 are in the employ of the 'Sea -transport department' of the Imperial Navy-- but neither vessel is offensively or otherwise armed --

.==> what Ensign--if any would they have flown ? Naval ?
.......==> indeed were any ships of the Navy flying their ensigns at this time?

I would think --that the VULKAN herself-- would not fly a Naval Ensign?
==> --having already been discarded by the Navy for breaking--and in any case being towed and not under her own power...?

I have only 1 x image of the Schelde (i) ex Dutch ) in 1918-- there is a 'flaglet' hoisted off the gaff--
but its very small and not of the size I would expect of an Ensign?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:02 am 
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JIM BAUMANN wrote:
So --to the question of flags...--

Both ocean going Tugs , one German RETTER ( 1885 ) and one ex-Dutch SCHELDE 1906 are in the employ of the 'Sea -transport department' of the Imperial Navy-- but neither vessel is offensively or otherwise armed --

.==> what Ensign--if any would they have flown ? Naval ?
.......==> indeed were any ships of the Navy flying their ensigns at this time?


Wow, hadn't thought yet about that one! You're right of course...

One idea: at the same moment in time there were the interned ships of the Imperial Navy at Scapa Flow, swinging around their anchors (with German skeleton crews). Would be worthwhile to have a look of the flags worn by those, there are at least quite some photos from these I recall.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:59 am 
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Pieter wrote:
Vet nice model Jim, it really tells the story. And Iceman, the scene predates the IMO by some 30 ish years. I have also seen similar scenes on a very lively Schelde in the 1980s. Strict enforcement of safety rules like this is a fairly recent thing.


Yes I know about these rules, which are not always known or applied even at the present time, which leads by experience to physical accidents or the destruction of the very expensive gangway.

Of course by very calm sea, "as on the manual", as on the beautiful photo, no problem, although a false maneuver of a big tonnage boat like a tug can crush the gangway and the legs of the unfortunate, especially at that time when the ships did not have automated engine control, it was controlled at the chadburn bridge-machine with a response time of the engineer and the steam engine long enough. I practiced the steam warships in the engine room. It was not uncommon to hit the wharf. :big_grin:

In any case, in my shipping company, we don't practice like that anymore, it's really too dangerous and the responsibility of the master could be engaged.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:51 am 
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Re: Comment on flags of the interned ships in Scapa Flow. That will be of little use. They had been ordered to haul down their ensigns at "sunset" on the day of arrival in the Firth of Forth and not hoist them again; which they did, until 21 June 1919! However, there are instances of individual ships hoisting various pennants during that time though I do not know their meanings.

VULKAN would probably not have flown an ensign: she was a "dead" ship.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:42 pm 
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Good evening Gents

subject to new information coming to light...

I think this will be the way I will go....pasted from main forum

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=375786#p1016947

==========================================================

Good evening gents;

thank you for your thoughts so far;
Info on German Tugboats of this era appears to be decidedly scant on the internet !!

searching via Google in both English as well as German
has brought up--hitherto-- not a single useful relevant image so far !

@ Wefalck -- your suggestion of Vulkan's status equivalent to a Pontoon... ()!) flies no Ensign - aye aye--that makes sense :thumbs_up_1:
.............................................................................................................................

the info from the link that Quaestor supplied .... :thumbs_up_1:
Flag adopted 26 Sep 1903, abolished 27 Sep 1919, but used until 1921"

would suggest that the ( ex Dutch ) Tugboat SCHELDE --

Attachment:
Attachment:
SCHELDE_Gröner 6_page 90.jpg
SCHELDE_Gröner 6_page 90.jpg [ 169.1 KiB | Viewed 304 times ]


which was by then a German naval Tug--having been purchased-... via Sweden ... by the Imperial Navy in 1915.
SCHELDE was stationed at the Naval Harbour @ Kiel when she was required to tow Vulkan (with RETTER ) on April 06

( she was re-located/ re-assigned from August 1919 to tow/ recover vessels from the South Americas)

ergo as a commissioned German Naval ship I think -- subject to my model-shipping Peers agreement...!"

- that on 05/06 April -- SCHELDE probably would have carried the Naval ensign as detailed above
............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Now... RETTER

Attachment:
RETTER_Schnake - Schlepper_page 53.jpg
RETTER_Schnake - Schlepper_page 53.jpg [ 454.54 KiB | Viewed 304 times ]



according to the summary above, RETTER was in Naval service from August 1914, from March 1915 serving as a Tender --
and returned to North German Lloyd at " Wars End "

that being 1918--ergo by April 1919 I would conclude that RETTER may have flown a NGL House-flag (?) ( what did that look like back then > ?)
and if going outside German Waters--- the the red/white/black trade flag as well...?


' waddaya-all think about that? any thoughts / comments or ultimate truths most welcome!

Thank you all in advance!

Jim Baumann

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:02 am 
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The unanimous view Imperial Navy specialists on the German forum is that all three ships would have flown the plain national flag Black-White-Red.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:47 am 
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Noted and thank you!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 8:58 am 
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Hello all again

The model of Vulkan and her Tugs is now completed--in as far as I do not think I will add any more....

( as opposed to stating it is ' finished' ...==> what model ever is...?

the last items that occupied me were the flags-
-this was answered in full my Messrs Nottleman and Wishemeyer
thank you Wefalck for the info sourcing! :thumbs_up_1:

meanwhile the red-white-black flags were sourced from this quite well done decal sheet-(let!) from
Peddinghaus decals in Germany

Attachment:
Img_6122.jpg
Img_6122.jpg [ 1.33 MiB | Viewed 64 times ]


These were crumpled within a sandwich layer of thin paper
( so to inhibit cracking the decal ==> by making the fold line a radius rather than a fold...)
then creasing quite brutally with narrow tweezers at a slight oblique angle to the halyard that suspends the flag-

Attachment:
Img_6141.jpg
Img_6141.jpg [ 668.61 KiB | Viewed 63 times ]


as... in the sombre depicted scene... there is not a lot of wind !



Now then.... merely because it is 'right' to have 3 x red-white-black flags in close proximity...
it did add rather too much of a splash of colour for my liking to the otherwise sombre colourings

so whilst the flags had been toned with washes of grey... the visual effect was a bit too much for my liking;

ergo I deviated slightly from the " truth "... and in my narrative-....

==> in view of the perhaps .... ....could-be-interpreted-as-a bit-suspect-circumstances-of the-position-of-the-loss-of-the ship-under-tow-very-way-off to-the-North-East-of-the-course-one-would'expect' -from-Hamburg-to-Harwich....

in a last show of pride / defiance.... the skeleton delivery crew-members ( the actual crew having deserted drunk some days previously ) decided to hoist a naval Ensign...

which conveniently --for my purposes is rather less colourful!

Attachment:
Img_6124.jpg
Img_6124.jpg [ 786.28 KiB | Viewed 64 times ]




Some very severe creasing was carried out in order to get the ensign to hang in a limp manner...

Attachment:
Img_6147.jpg
Img_6147.jpg [ 1.05 MiB | Viewed 64 times ]



Having a bit of distance from the model during the Festive Season helped

so the results of the final effect ,--I will show in the imminent future in the next posting
once it has been photographed with the " good camera " in decent light ! :wave_1:

So--onwards to the next project...!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:06 am 
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Never an easy task, these pavilions, beautiful mastery of the subject, Jim! :cool_2:

I'm doing this with foil like many of us, but the paper seems perfect, you can dye the edges more easily.

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