The Ship Model Forum

OK, here are some images of photos and drawings for USS STODDARD (DD-566) showing her aft stack in the late 1950's into the 1960's. The first image (same as posted above, but larger format) sometime in mid-1960's (undated photo, the USN started painting the upper-works black in late 1963). An in-yard image taken in 1959 when the dome was placed over the ECM antenna. Finally images from USS STODDARD's last BGP dated in 1968, that Hank has been using for much of his build. Please note; The subject ECM antenna (taller one), was an AS571 (which was early on in the BLR-1 ECM suite) in 1959, and had been changed to an AS616/SLR antenna by 1968. The smaller antenna, AS570, remained the same. I have BuShips documents dating into 1962, but after that date overhaul documents aren't available at NARA for STODDARD, but her January 1968 Booklet of General Plans show that she was overhauled during the period of these images (and drawings modified) in May 1959, October 1961, March 1965, and January 1968. I have no idea when the first image was taken, before (likely) or after her early 1965 overhaul.

So "we" maybe looking at Apples and Oranges of antennas.

Rick E. Davis wrote (in part):

Rick,
Much appreciate the extra nice photos - of which I've had and have used, etc. etc. So, at this point as you so stated, I've used the 1968 BoGP for almost all my parts drafting and design as well as the 1959 photo you posted as reference (and the other two photos in the series). The parts are designed, revised, printed and assembled. One further comment is that I also refer to a few different U.S.N. catalogs and technical books for all my instrumentation & RADAR design:
AD 323191 - Antenna Catalog Vol. III, Unclassified Ship Antennas, Aug. 1960
Shipboard Antennas - 2nd Edition, Preston E. Law, Jr.
Naval RADAR, Norman Friedman
In the case of designing the AS-616/SLR UHF Antenna (s) and AS-571 Antenna (p), Shipboard Antennas provided the physical dimensions for correctly sizing the RADOMEs of these units. As the 1968 BoGP sheer profile only shows the AS-616, I needed some verification for the size & layout of the unit on the port side.

As always, thanks for your input and technical support!!

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, USS-LSM/R-194 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Hank:

I appreciate how many times you have gone through parts design and creation here to get just the correct result, despite spitballs from a certain individual. That you and Willie have been working on similar projects though in different but equal methods has been a useful cross pollination. Both are really useful comparisons with excellent results.

Soon you will have your hull draft marks applied, unusually in Roman Numerals! At that point all of us in the peanut gallery will appreciate that moment of progress when you begin to add the modules topside!

Best wishes! Tom

Fliger747, have not done actual spitballs since I was about 10yrs while recovering from reconstructive surgery at the Ontario Crippled Children Center in Toronto. but that comment from you is expected after proving you wrong that the Haskell class had bilge keels when you said it did not.

BB62vet, I did not say your 3d printing was wrong but "seems to be bigger then shown in the photo in page 1" & you both go into attack mode as tho to protect your model reputation.
not a troll & you are maybe 10yrs my senior. proof of my models tho not finished as still work & learning in progress.
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=165105
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=183327
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=165137
these are my small ones as my bigger ones are 1/144 scale with HMS Warspite the battleship being the biggest at about 52" long. no pictures on those.

Just go away...

So, after getting the parts ready for assembly (1 fwd, 1 after stack) I decided to check out my hedgehog launchers which were 3D printed Shapeways products from several years ago. Tom had mentioned that he was designing units for his WHITEHURST, so this inspired me to check on my stash. I had no sooner taken one of the two in my hands and had a case of "butter fingers", dropping the one and in searching for it, stepped on it - So, now there WAS a reason to get real interested in a replacement, but maybe one of my own design. Tom sent me his designed launcher and I've used it as a guide in getting one ready for a test print. Here is the current state of the launcher -

I still have the control boards and pedestal to design that is located behind the angled shield. I will add also a few of the Hedgehogs which have yet to be designed. The launcher is designed at 1/144 scale, so is roughly 5/8" long - a really small item with quite a bit of detail.

Having successfully created slide off decals for the stack emblem, I'm already on revision 3 of the decal as the background was too dark on my existing stack, now necessitating assembling a new one which is in progress. Lastly, I am awaiting my new set of draft marks/numbers from a new vendor. We shall see how these turn out.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, USS-LSM/R-194 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Hank - need any close-up photos of one? I can probably drop into the Sackville later this week and snap some in person if you need.

_________________
ICBM Address: 44:78N 063:63W

Ex RCN, HMC Ships Gatineau, Athabaskan, Charlottetown, St. John's, Montreal, Charlottetown, Summerside, Montreal.

Not to steal NavyShooter's thunder, but here are two photos I took of Sackville's Hedgehog in case they're helpful. Apologies for the orientation - the forum software is too old to recognize the orientation data in the photos to show them correctly. They should appear fine once you click to view the full version in your browser.

_________________
De quoi s'agit-il?

Navy Shooter/Timmy C -

Thanks so much for the photos/info, etc.!!! They do help as the few photos I have are b/w and not of the best quality. It's interesting that looking at a cutaway illustration of the Hedgehog, it doesn't seem as wide as the one in the 2nd photo Timmy C posted. It (the photo) also shows the angles of the 4 rows are all canted outward and not straight up as I've shown. This will need to be modified, as well probably the individual spigots on each row.

Brad - If you were to visit SACKVILLE, it would be nice to have some dimensions of the hedgehog charge or projector. The only thing I know for sure is that is is 7.2 in wide but the other dimensions are unknown. Metric dimensions are fine!!! But....please don't make a special trip on my account. At this scale, "guessimation" works fine!!

I've based to a certain degree the design of my unit on the ones I had purchased - this appears to be perhaps not completely valid, so these photos are quite useful indeed. I do have one color photo of CASSIN YOUNG showing her port launcher. All the hogs are somewhat pointing towards port, so this would be correct in that you wouldn't want to launch hogs straight ahead or towards the center of the ship.

So, this will be a small project to get it as accurate as possible before it heads to the printer.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, USS-LSM/R-194 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

I will add that my photos were taken with an ultrawide angle lens, so there will be some exaggeration in the apparent dimensions (especially the second photo).

It's also worth noting this is a museum piece that was added well after the war (pretty much everything above the main deck had to be rebuilt following postwar service), so the outward angling of the spigots may or may not reflect original practice (I forget whether the four "columns" can be rotated). I'd rely on sources closer to your subject for reference.

_________________
De quoi s'agit-il?

Tim,

Thanks for the additional info - good to know. Re. the angle of the spigots: this will require actually printing two different versions - a port and a stbd. It's possible that the slicing software (Chitubox) will accomplish this as DSM software does not have a "mirror" command or function. This eliminates the need to design a 2nd "mirrored" part. Getting the angles fairly correct would be desirable as the blue color will stand out.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, USS-LSM/R-194 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Hank,

Before you get too far along, the hedgehog spigots rotated from straight up to outward to whichever side it was mounted on. In the "stowed" position they were pointed straight ahead. There were two versions of Hedgehogs, the Mk 10 and the Mk 11. The difference was in the shape of the "pattern" that the charges would deploy to. Since these hedgehogs were fixed in their position, pivoting the spigots would alter how far away from the ship the depth charges would deploy.

This photo of USS PICKING (DD-685) is a close up view of the hedgehog installation on a FLETCHER. Timmy's image of the other side is something I have to seen a closeup photo of. Ironically, when I have been on CASSIN YOUNG and THE SULLIVANS, I failed to take photos of the back side of the hedgehog. When I took photos of CASSIN YOUNG, they had the portside hedgehog spigots angled all the way to port with dummy charges.

Rick,

Thanks so much for that photo - it shows some details that slightly eluded me from others I have. Yes, the projectile rows could be adjusted as you describe. Perhaps just leaving mine pointing straight up would be fine as is without further ado. I do need to resize and adjust their left/right locations.

This photo clears up a few questions regarding the angle iron that supports the launcher as well as some internal questions I had. Yes, this differs a bit from the photos of the unit on SACKVILLE that Tim provided. The only photos I have of STOD's launchers are taken from the bow of the ship and really too far away to be of use. As this photo is of a FLETCHER's launcher, it's apples to apples.

Once again, thanks!!

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, USS-LSM/R-194 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

I forgot my cell phone at home today - I'll try and bring it with me tomorrow and take a hike out at lunch to get some photos on Sackville. I'll bring a tape measure with me for reference.

_________________
ICBM Address: 44:78N 063:63W

Ex RCN, HMC Ships Gatineau, Athabaskan, Charlottetown, St. John's, Montreal, Charlottetown, Summerside, Montreal.

Brad,

If you so desire, but again...not unless you feel the urge...

At this point I've redone the basic launcher base & framework and the size/location, etc. of the spigots and so forth -

I still have a bit of refinement to make on the launcher base and spigot assemblies.
The "hog" I designed is based on an illustration in Sumrall's book and then scaled down to the size needed - perhaps some fudging on that may be needed. I'm only going to put a few "hogs" in place. Then I'll begin design on the back of the launcher where the controls are located - they are somewhat different than those that appear on the SACKVILLE example.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, USS-LSM/R-194 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Hank:

I don't remember where I found the dimensions, but in some reference I found so mine is I think correct sized (for some model) , however it's possible there were variations in these, especially between the DE's and the Fletchers which got them later One thing to note is all the sub bases seem to be different, accommodating for sheer as the Fletchers had sheer forward on their O1 level and the DE's on the main deck It would be typical that the base of the unit for installations would strive to be "level" or at a constant angle. The unit in Rick's photo seems to be at an outward splay angle from the ships axis of only about 15 deg or less. That's not a lot so indeed outward rotation of the spigot axis was likely. The question arises, and we can't tell from the photo, is if the base rails are different to account for being at an angle to the centerline.

I expect that in printing Chitubox mirror function should be able to accommodate any differences. If I can find where I got the dimensions I'll pass them on to you.

Best regards! Tom

HANK:



This image is from the Slater website and is likely a MK 1o unit, MK 11 units were more common post war. This is a poor reproduction of an image in a manual, which I had found and cannot now locate, one of those airbrushed 3D illustrations common at the time. At least it shows some of the control units and names.

Tom,

Thanks for the additional info, photo, and so forth - all very helpful. That illustration is actually somewhat better than one of the actual photos I have as it is lighter and more legible than the photo happens to be.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, USS-LSM/R-194 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Well, after working much of the day on the design, I think I have more than what is required for the launcher:



As NavyShooter is planning on an R & D errand for me tomorrow, I'll hold off on the design or modifications to the hedgehog projectile until I get some dimensions from him. Must be nice to work right across the street from a nice Museum Ship....

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, USS-LSM/R-194 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Here's some photos.

Overall length is 88.75 inches
Overall Width is 53.3 inches
Height of rear shield is 42.5 inches
Width of rear shield is 54.5 inches

Projectile length is 37 inches
Length of Projectile stabilizing fin is 4 inches
Diameter of projectile appears to be 7.5 inches

I emailed the full resolution pics to you Hank, along with a few others that are not included here.

_________________
ICBM Address: 44:78N 063:63W

Ex RCN, HMC Ships Gatineau, Athabaskan, Charlottetown, St. John's, Montreal, Charlottetown, Summerside, Montreal.