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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:38 am 
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Location: Port Orchard, Wa
Hi everyone,

I’ve been very busy lately, which has seriously set back work on many models, but in my spare time, I’ve been working on this conversion of the Atlantis kit of the USS Forrest Sherman. An old friend served aboard the USS Hull DD-945 in the late 1970s during a period of time when the ship tested the Mark 71 8”/55 Major Caliber Lightweight Gun. My friend collects various car and ship models, but not surprisingly, he doesn’t have a model of his former ship, so I decided to build one for him. I intended to present it to him on his birthday, but it won’t be ready in time. However, I hope it will be a very pleasant surprise gift when I get it finished.

Atlantis Toy and Hobby has recently emerged as a major producer of nostalgia kits, reissuing long out-of-production kits from kit manufacturers like Aurora, Monogram, Renwal, and Revell. This Atlantis kit is a re-issue of Revell’s Forrest Sherman in 1/320th scale.

My objective in building this model was NOT to make it accurate to a ‘T.’ My intent is to build up this old kit into a good representation of what the USS Hull looked like during the time when my friend served on her. To that end, I haven’t searched high and low for drawings of the Hull. All of my attempts at searches have met with no success, anyway. (Drawings of the ship seem to be as scarce as hen’s teeth.) Instead, I’ve had to rely on analysis of photos of the Hull and her sister ships, which I’ve gleaned from various sources.
Attachment:
File comment: Here's a photo of the Hull while testing the 8 inch gun, courtesy of Navsource.org
DD-945 28 1975.jpg
DD-945 28 1975.jpg [ 104.48 KiB | Viewed 787 times ]

Obviously, the kit shows its age with its detailing and casting. In particular, the main deck is populated with various crude approximations of winches and hoses. The masts and associated details are very thick. I’ve opted to leave most of these details as is, unless they get in the way of necessary modifications to the kit.

Since I know very little about destroyers and the Forrest Sherman class, I assumed this would be a very simple conversion, amounting to not much more than assembling the kit and applying the ‘945’ hull numbers. Boy, was I wrong!

For this installment, I'll leave you with some photos of the initial construction of the kit, which are typical for whatever ship you model.
Attachment:
File comment: The interesting thing about this kit is that once you assemble the hull, rather than assemble and attach the superstructure to the main deck, in this case, you apply the outer bulkheads to the frame of the kit.
20210323_121148 (2).jpg
20210323_121148 (2).jpg [ 280.26 KiB | Viewed 787 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: This is typical of initial construction of the kit.
20210323_121251 (2).jpg
20210323_121251 (2).jpg [ 292.91 KiB | Viewed 785 times ]


Thank you to everyone for stopping by and checking in! As I said above, I never intended this to by a model immune to the critique of rivet counters, but I certainly appreciate any feedback you have!

John :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:14 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:12 pm
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email sent.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:33 pm
Posts: 409
Location: Port Orchard, Wa
Hi everyone,

Today, I’m going to describe my initial steps at building up the Hull’s superstructure. First, I want to thank DavidP for reaching out to me via email. I look forward to communicating again!

One of the things that gave me a rude awakening occurred as I was preparing to start gluing the kit together. I’d begun looking for drawings and photos and quickly found that ships of the Forrest Sherman Class had undergone considerable modifications. Seemingly, no two mods were the same across the ships of the class. Therefore, I decided to focus my modifications of the kit based solely on photos of the Hull.

Here’s some photos of initial work on the superstructure:
Attachment:
File comment: Superstructure bulkheads and deck have been installed. On the aft end of the superstructure, the tub for the twin 3" guns was removed. I replaced the deck forward of the conn with a new piece of .030 inch styrene. After I took this photo, I noticed I'd broken off the deck for the starboard wing. Oops. A simple box of .030 inch and .040 inch styrene was assembled for the new compartment aft of the existing superstructure. In this photo, it is only temporarily in place
20210808_092933-1.jpg
20210808_092933-1.jpg [ 193.45 KiB | Viewed 717 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: The kit shows its age as the fit isn't the best for the superstructure parts. I'll have some gap-filling to do. I kept breaking off the bollards during work on the model. At first, I would replace them with styrene rod, but then I gave up and decided to do that once I am further along on the model.
20210808_092939-1.jpg
20210808_092939-1.jpg [ 197.32 KiB | Viewed 717 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: I should've mentioned this earlier: the kit has molded side rails, which I removed first. I'll replace them with brass PE in 1/350th scale. The size will be close enough.
20210808_092945-1.jpg
20210808_092945-1.jpg [ 198.59 KiB | Viewed 717 times ]


Thanks for stopping by!

John :wave_1:


Last edited by jcmackay on Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:29 pm 
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Location: Calgary, AB/Surrey, B.C., Canada
Looking forward to seeing this come together, especially the 8" gun!

It's neat to see all those details on the bulkhead that they had molded on - quite the contrast to the barren sides of the later Tamiya battleships, for instance, even if the details are rather soft and may be incorrect.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:37 pm 
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Location: Port Orchard, Wa
Hi Timmy,

Thanks for posting the comments! :thanks: :thanks: :thanks:
Timmy C wrote:
Looking forward to seeing this come together, especially the 8" gun!
It's neat to see all those details on the bulkhead that they had molded on - quite the contrast to the barren sides of the later Tamiya battleships, for instance, even if the details are rather soft and may be incorrect.


I purchased a 1/320th 3D printed 8" gun from Shapeways a while back. In my next post, I'll post of photo of it. It is pretty bare bones, but I don't intend to add any detailing to it, given the size.

I had the same reaction to the detailing on the bulkheads! There is a significant amount of detail and I tried to be as careful as possible removing the many ejector pin marks so that I didn't obliterate the details.

John :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:28 pm 
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Location: Vigo, Spain
Hi there John and all,

Excellent project, dealing with an exceptionally good-looking ship, very rich in details, not the modern things of nowadays. I will be following it, for sure.

jcmackay wrote:
There is a significant amount of detail and I tried to be as careful as possible removing the many ejector pin marks so that I didn't obliterate the details.

Actually, I think just the opposite, i.e., you should obliterate all of them, to leave the bulkheads totally bare, and add your own details. In 1/320, this model is 39.6 cm.(=15.59 in.), and this size has an immense potential. I have done this in 1/300 scale, and it works:

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm

I scratch-built virtually everything except the hull, and as you are building in 1/320, you can even add PE elements in 1/350 --of which there is a miriad-- as the difference will not be that visible.

Keep updating your thread, and very best regards from this side,

Willie.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:39 pm 
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John, using 1mm thick styrene plastic sheet on the model are you as that is what I am using on mine? email sent with 4 drawings of the ship.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:36 pm 
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Location: Port Orchard, Wa
Hello David,
Thanks for your question. And thank you very much for the helpful drawings! :thanks: :thanks: :thanks: I've been tardy answering emails as I have been sidetracked because I am out of town for the weekend. Allow me to address your question.
DavidP wrote:
John, using 1mm thick styrene plastic sheet on the model are you as that is what I am using on mine? email sent with 4 drawings of the ship.

For the deck forward of the conn, I used .030 styrene, which is about equal to .75mm. For the deck to appear in scale and not too thick, I think .5mm would be acceptable as well. All the new deck structures are predominantly 1mm. I'll post more about that tomorrow evening or Monday once I am back home.

John :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:19 pm 
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Glad to see a new project John-particularly one that addresses our fascination with using ancient kits!

Dave


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:46 pm 
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Location: Port Orchard, Wa
Hi everyone,

I took a little bit of a break in posting while we made a vacation trip to the coast, which turned out to be good timing as everyone was sweltering back home! Today, let me show you the current status of the model and describe some of the work since the last post. But first, I want to say thank you to my friend Dave who stopped in to post this comment:
dhenning wrote:
Glad to see a new project John-particularly one that addresses our fascination with using ancient kits!
Dave
Yes, I guess we both have established that kind of pattern, alright! :heh: BTW, we'll be in your neck of the woods in October and I hope we can meet up again! Thanks for stopping in and commenting! :thanks: :thanks: :thanks:

Now, on with today's update.

In this photo, you can see the 8 inch gun, which is a 3D-printed item from Bill’s Models via Shapeways. You'll also see all of the newly-installed additional compartments.
Attachment:
File comment: The 8" gun is pretty basic; about the only details one could add would be the rungs up the port and starboard sides of the forward face of the gun housing, but I won't be doing that. I had to open up the hole in the bottom of the 8" gun a little bit so it would fit on the kit's mounting post. You can also see the work on the bridge.
20210816_195227-2.jpg
20210816_195227-2.jpg [ 145.96 KiB | Viewed 541 times ]


This bow-on view shows the work on the bridge.
Attachment:
File comment: The kit's bridge only has 5 window frames, so I added additional frames between each of the kit's frames using .020 x .040 styrene strips. I also made a new roof for the bridge of .030 inch styrene because the kit's roof looked more like a canvas cover. Along the leading edge of the bridge, the kit has a venturi, which was eliminated later in the ship's life. I overlooked this detail until I had the superstructure already assembled. It would have been much easier to correct this before assembly. Oops! I applied .010 inch styrene along the face of the bridge to even out the appearance after hacking away the venturi.
20210816_195247-2.jpg
20210816_195247-2.jpg [ 145.85 KiB | Viewed 541 times ]


This view from starboard port also shows another view of the added compartments and work on the fantail.
Attachment:
File comment: All of the new superstructure items have been constructed and installed on the ship. I'm not going to add any detail to the new boxes; they seem to lack detail in the available photos of the ship. The new box just astern of where the forward stack mounts was constructed using .030 inch strip for the bulkheads and .020 inch styrene for the deck including the signal wings. On the fantail, the kit has numerous mounting holes including holes for depth charge racks, which were eliminated by the time my friend served aboard. In this photo, you can see they are plugged with styrene, but not filed down yet.
20210816_195303-2.jpg
20210816_195303-2.jpg [ 217.55 KiB | Viewed 541 times ]


John :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:12 pm 
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Glad to see the 8" turret printed out well - seems like you managed to clean up any printing "steps" quite well!

Love the sharp work on those bridge window frames, too.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:27 pm 
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Location: Port Orchard, Wa
Hi everyone,

Before I get into today's update, I wanted to address Willie's post from earlier that I overlooked answering:

Willie wrote:
...you should obliterate all of them, to leave the bulkheads totally bare, and add your own details...

Yes, adding details to this model would do a lot to improve it, but my goal with this model is to build it up in short order to present as a gift. If I were building it for my own collection, I might invest the additional time and expense that would be required to detail it out. I would not be surprised if another modeler actually does that with this kit, as it is pretty primitive in comparison to contemporary models. Thanks for your suggestions! :thanks: :thanks: :thanks:

Thanks also to Timmy who stopped by and posted kind comments as well! :thanks:

Now, let's take a look at the current status. I finished up dressing up the bridge and applied a quick coat of paint to see how she looks:
Attachment:
File comment: After cleaning up the bridge windows, I notched the port and starboard running lights and added the short venturis above them.
20210819_093259-2.jpg
20210819_093259-2.jpg [ 104.21 KiB | Viewed 468 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: For each venturi, three vertical pieces of .020 x .020 inch styrene were attached to the bridge wall above the running lights to serve as a base. A styrene .060 x .030 inch strip was glued onto the base and then filed and sanded to get the correct appearance. After that, I shot the topside with gray to see how everything including the new superstructure turned out. Looks like I have a few gaps to fill!
20210819_093310-2.jpg
20210819_093310-2.jpg [ 160.43 KiB | Viewed 468 times ]


John :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:34 am 
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Hi John,

Great to see another oddity being built. From the real picture, the gun however looks even larger than the one you have. Seems to stick out above the small platform/deck in front of the bridge, while the one on your model appears to be slightly lower than that platform/deck?

In any case, great scratchbuilding skills (but we knew that from your previous projects of course :heh: :heh: ) :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:15 pm 
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Location: Port Orchard, Wa
Hi everyone,

Work slowly continues on the model but no significant changes to report today. I do want to thank Neptune for his comments and kind words:
Neptune wrote:
Great to see another oddity being built. From the real picture, the gun however looks even larger than the one you have. Seems to stick out above the small platform/deck in front of the bridge, while the one on your model appears to be slightly lower than that platform/deck?

Thanks for the kind words and also for the challenge and the critical eye, Neptune! I think that there are two factors contributing to what appears to be a undersize gun mount: the perspective of the photos and the position of the 3D printed gun mount on the model. When I posed the 3D printed gun mount on the model for the photos, I pressed it down onto the gun mount stub a little too much to make sure it didn't fall off and break into pieces on the floor. 3D printed components are notoriously brittle. The gun mount should actually sit just a bit higher. Here's another photo showing the relative heights with the mount sitting a bit higher. You'll notice that currently, the base of the 8 inch gun mount is almost parallel with the top of the deck. In actuality, the gun mount sat parallel to the water line so that the trailing edge of the gun mount base sat higher off the deck than the forward edge. When I get ready to install the gun mount permanently, I'll adjust how it sits to get the right relationship to the deck.
Attachment:
File comment: The mounting hole in the 3D printed gun mount is undersize, so I crudely enlarged it without regard to achieving an accurate installation. In actuality, the base of the gun mount was parallel to the water line and not to the deck. I'll be correcting this later when it comes time to permanently attach the mount, which should make the gun mount stand a tiny bit higher on the trailing edge.
20210822_193315 (2).jpg
20210822_193315 (2).jpg [ 137.8 KiB | Viewed 398 times ]

You had me second-guessing myself about whether the 3D printed mount was undersize as well, so I broke out the drawing and measured it. Although the part is fairly basic and lacking in detail, if anything, it may be a wee bit too large.
Attachment:
File comment: I'm debating with myself whether I'll add detail to the base of the gun mount because it is kinda basic.
WNUS_8-55_mk71_datasheet_pic (2).jpg
WNUS_8-55_mk71_datasheet_pic (2).jpg [ 382.39 KiB | Viewed 398 times ]

Thank you, Neptune, for checking in with your comments and keeping me on my toes! :thanks: :thanks: :thanks:

John :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:58 am 
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jcmackay, take a look at these links.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0594524.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0594523.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0594522.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0594521.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/945.htm


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:33 pm
Posts: 409
Location: Port Orchard, Wa
Hi everyone,

Taking advantage of the waning days of summer, I took a bit of a break from the model these past two weeks for another vacation trip to the coast. Now that I am rested and recharged, it's time to get back to work!
Before I get into today's update, I want to thank DavidP for posting photos of the Hull. Navsource.org is a great resource and is a very good place to begin research on US Navy ships. Thanks for sharing those! :thanks:

In today's update, I've masked and done the initial painting of the decks. I have a bit of touch up to do, but let's take a look after removing the masking.
Attachment:
File comment: I airbrushed the decks with Tamiya acrylic Dark Sea Grey XF-54 with a bit of flat black to make it a little darker, but not too dark. Next, I'll touch up the decks and hand-paint the various pieces of deck machinery and fittings.
20210907_01.jpg
20210907_01.jpg [ 234.52 KiB | Viewed 142 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: I've left the gunwales off while painting the decks so as to be able to have access for painting. After touching up the decks, I'll install the gunwales. Then, I'll begin working on painting the boot topping and lower hull.
20210907_04.jpg
20210907_04.jpg [ 213.02 KiB | Viewed 142 times ]


John :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:29 am 
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Posts: 409
Location: Port Orchard, Wa
Hi everyone,

I’ve done quite a bit of painting since the last post. Let’s take a look:
Attachment:
File comment: This shows the boot top and lower hull painted, as well as the hull number decals applied.
20210913_05.jpg
20210913_05.jpg [ 158.73 KiB | Viewed 77 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: The deck fittings have been hand-painted.
20210913_6.jpg
20210913_6.jpg [ 332.01 KiB | Viewed 77 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: The red of the lower hull is a homemade mix. The kit's decals included hull numbers for the Forrest Sherman (DD 931), Edson (DD 946) and Turner Joy (DD 951), so I was able to cobble together the right numbers for USS Hull.
20210913_07.jpg
20210913_07.jpg [ 148.08 KiB | Viewed 77 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: Although the kit has most of the decals and markings I've needed, I will have to make a homemade decal of the ship's name for the fantail.
20210913_08.jpg
20210913_08.jpg [ 165.55 KiB | Viewed 77 times ]

Currently, I'm also rebuilding the aft tripod mast, which just doesn't look good if you build it out of the box. Here's a view of the mast, assembled temporarily, so that you can see what I mean.
Attachment:
File comment: I just couldn't ignore the big gaps in the crossbeams, so I'm replacing them with styrene rod. More on that later.
20210910_01.jpg
20210910_01.jpg [ 137.93 KiB | Viewed 77 times ]


Coming up, I'll be installing the railings, which will be 1/350th PE railings from Tom's Modelworks. They aren't exactly to scale, but since the kit is in 1/320th scale, it will be passable. Then, I'll install the rest of the deck fittings and lastly, the guns. I still need to work on the base of the 8 inch gun, which I'll show in a future post.


John :wave_1:


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