1/144 Scale USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratch Build

Rdutnell · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:58 am

UPDATE 11
Well, I figured out how I screwed up the diving planes.

I started with the plans. The top section shows the plane cross-sections, the bottom section shows the profile.

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I then projected the cross-sections to the profile.

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The outside was OK. But I projected the inner side to the tail point instead of the leading edge, so my profile is the dashed line, which obviously is wrong.

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So, to fix it, I moved the inner profile up to the leading edge, where it should be.

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I then copied the inside cross-section to the tail end.

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I then scaled it using the ratio of the lengths (1.1381) as the multiplier.

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The rest is in 3-D. See the next post.

Rdutnell · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:23 am

UPDATE 12

I decided to show the steps it takes to rebuild the diving plane and stern assembly in AutoCad, for those of you who may be interested. So, here goes…
First, I copied the 2-D work to the file I’m doing the 3-D model on. I could have done it on the 2-D file I was using, but I prefer to keep separate files for my 2-D work and 3-D work. The drawing is now a 2-D drawing on the x-y plane.

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Now, I go to an isometric view to better see what’s going on.

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Although the plane will eventually be two pieces, I start by building it as one piece, so I have to create single polylines out of each of the cross-sections.

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Now the cross sections have to be rotated to be perpendicular to the longitudinal axis. I do this by rotating them 90 degrees around the x-axis.

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I create a solid by using the “Loft” command between the 3 cross-sections. In 3D wire-frame visual style it looks like this:

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In 3D realistic visual style it looks like this:

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Note that most of the lines disappeared because they are hidden by the “solid”. Next we have to slice it to shape.

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So the diving plane is now the correct size, and only needs to be separated into the two pieces, but not in this post.

Stay tuned.

Rdutnell · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:57 am

UPDATE 13

Continuing on…

At this point I move the piece t o where it is supposed to be and double check that the alignment is good on all 3 planes.

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Looking at it in wire frame, you can see that the match with the plans is much better.

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Next I slice it along the center following the plan to allow for the aft part to rotate. I changed the color of the back part to green to better distinguish them.

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Next is drilling the holes for the shaft. Since I know everything is lined up on the other side I drilled the shaft by tracing the end circle on the existing part and extruded it.

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This extruded tube is then subtracted from the rear section.

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I want the planes to be able to move, so the holes on the forward part have to be larger so that the shaft can spin freely. The same procedure is repeated using the larger diameter holes, and the extra drawing lines are removed.

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The next thing is to round off the studs on the forward piece and the front of the aft piece. It is way more complicated than I remember it so I’ll spare the details. The good news is that I finally finished it and was able to attach it to the hull that I had already started adding detail to.

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Now, back to the detailing.

Rdutnell · **Posted:** Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:19 pm

UPDATE 14

Well, I didn’t get to detailing as quickly as I thought I would because of an issue with the new stern section I just redid. The size was good, but the detail was horrible due to a somewhat lousy job of tracing. So I redid it a third time creating the foils with arcs, elliptical arcs and lines and it came out much better.

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I then chamfered the edge of the flange that mates with the adjacent part.

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And added a relief gap on the flange as well. The detailing also really stands out in the next two images.

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So, the stern (tail) section is completed (I think) as is the diving plane. Because I had such better results redoing the diving plane, I decided to redo the rudder as well. It too looks a lot better.

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So everything in the aft section of the ship is ready for manufacture and I’m moving forward with detailing.

OH BOY!!!

Rdutnell · **Posted:** Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:45 pm

UPDATE 15

Well, not so fast there buckaroo! Shortly after I completed redoing the stern section, it was brought to my attention that the rudder and diving planes did not have the bearing posts as shown on the plans I am using, so my model was wrong and I had to redo the stern section yet again, to remove them. It definitely looks better without the posts.

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After completing the stern assembly, hopefully for the last time, I decided to “scribe” the waterline. I started by aligning the point of the model dunce cap with the point of the dunce cap on the plans and tracing the waterline for the aft section as shown on the plans. Remembering past lessons, I used arcs, elliptical arcs and ellipses to accomplish this task, which was pretty easy considering the outline is pretty much elliptical in shape. When I got to the straight part of the hull, I realigned the plans so that the front point of the bows were lined on the model and plans and then traced the front section.

Then came the cool part. I was thinking, “You know, there has got to be a way to project an image on a flat surface (in this case my waterline) onto an irregularly shaped object (my ship).” The math isn’t difficult, just repetitive, ideal for a computer. So, I entered “projecting to a plane in autocad” and lo’ and behold there’s a command called “project geometry” that does just that. It projects surface objects, like lines, circles, arcs, etc. onto a 3D surface or model. By using this command I was able to easily transfer the waterline I traced on the plans to the model.

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The only drawback is that the projection is created by splines, which I know little about, except that they are difficult to work with and can’t be manipulated like lines, polylines or other drawing objects. However, in this case, because of the shape of the object and the fact that the water level is, well, level I could simply copy the polyline I created of the tracing onto a common point on the projection. Something went wrong because although I was able to make a groove around the hull using a 0.01” wide 0.05” tall (height didn’t matter) rectangle extruded along the polyline, and then subtracted from the hull, but it was FUBAR. The groove was deep in places, and barely scratched the surface in others, and the rectangular shape is not the way to go unless you could keep the long end perpendicular to the surface (which I’m sure you can but I don’t know how, or at least the way I know would be too difficult and time consuming).

I redid it but this time I simply traced the entire projection using very tiny increments in the curved sections, snapping to the projected line for every point. I then used a circle with a radius of 0.01”. When centered on the polyline, which is on the surface, it should create a groove 0.02” wide and 0.01” deep.

It came out a lot better, so I decided to go ahead and do the Anti-skid coating outline. I did it the same way, and even though I had a difficult time getting the front and back sections to connect for some reason, I was able to get it done and I like the way it looks.

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I had given a little thought about how I was going to mount it, so I decided to drill a couple of holes to support it. As it turns out the best place for the support holes was dead center of sections 3 and 4 so 1/4" holes were “drilled” through the bottoms.

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On the inside I decided to provide a support ledge for the washer and nut. It’s 1/2” diameter.

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After looking at it again, I think I-m going to make a little nut shaped recess, so I can glue a nut in place. Another option is to incorporate the threads in the material, but that seems to be asking for trouble, so I think I’ll stick with the nut hole.

CHEERS!!!

navydavesof · **Joined:** Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:38 pm **Posts:** 3127

This is fantastic! Thank you very much for sharing this project with us. I look forward to seeing what new parts you produce. :thumbs_up_1:

krgf15 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:37 pm

you should market this baby!!!!

Rdutnell · **Posted:** Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:31 am

UPDATE 16
Hi navydavesof! Thank you and you are welcome. I’m glad you are enjoying it, because I certainly am. And it keeps getting better.

Greetings krgf15. You are like the fourth person that’s told me that and I’m definitely giving it some thought.

Anyway, Christmas came early guys! The test pieces we made arrived and it is so cool holding a part like that, that you made. I liked the pictures my buddy had previously sent, but being able to hold it and turn it around and look at it from different angles, like I did the AutoCad model was really cool and kind of like déjà vu. It seemed like I had seen it before. :smallsmile:

It arrived when I was eating and when I finished eating I asked my wife if she had a paper clip handy. Well, there are all sorts of paper clips of various sizes, but as fortune has it the one she had was a perfect fit for the shafts. It went in the holes with a snug fit, which is perfect, they will be able to rotate, but not freely. This is encouraging!

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On the “modeling” front, I added the nut cavity I was talking about, complete with head walls(?) to provide extra support to the area. It’s sized for a standard 20 ¼” nut and is going to make life way easier later.

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I also decided that since the rudder and diving plane were moveable, the sail plane should be too, so I sliced the planes off of the sail and “drilled” 1/16” diameter holes in the inboard ends of the planes and all the way through the sail. The location of these holes, and thus the shaft was just a WAG. It may actually be further forward or aft than I put it, but it is close enough, and will do the trick. By the way, 1/16” is the same size as I drilled the rudder and diving plane holes, so a medium-large paper clip should provide a great shaft.

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When I first started this project, I had no idea where it would lead. When I first obtained the plans and decided to see if I could build it in AutoCad, I had no idea my buddy could and would make the parts on an SLA for me. Even when I knew I was going to be able to get the parts made for me, when I made the first set of plans, and generated the part diagram, I hadn’t considered including the detail on the AutoCad drawing so that the detail would be manufactured on the part. Therefore, on the original plans the two center hull sections are identical twins. With detailing added they are at best fraternal twins. This combined with the fact that I created an additional part when I cut the sails off necessitated creating a new part diagram.

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Other good news is that the DWG files for the first round of parts, as well as a detail test piece, has been sent to my buddy and they go for manufacturing tomorrow. He’s not sure yet when they will be made. The sail planes (4), hull stern section, rudders, diving planes, screw and dunce cap (9-13, respectively) are all going to be made, as is a detail test piece I made so that I can see the visual effect of various sizes and shapes on grooves and protrusions.
I also included a test of another little project I may have going on. Tucked inside my 1” cube detail test piece are two rows of four 1/350 scale RAM launchers that I also designed on AutoCad. I don’t have any use for them but I understand that there is a demand for them so I thought I would make a few and see how they turned out. By tucking them inside the test piece, adding connecting rods to hold them to the inside of the box, and then using the UNION command to join them all together into one part, I can test two different things in the same amount of space. We’ll see how it turns out. They are really TINY.

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Time for more detailing!

CHEERS!

Rdutnell · **Posted:** Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:25 am

UPDATE 17
I decided to have a go at the hinged cleats. I didn’t have much to go from, just a couple of pictures, with this being the best one:

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Here are some different views of it.

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It’s not bad, but it’s not quite right. I think it needs to slope up a little more and perhaps be a little fatter. If anybody has any good pix or plans of one of these cleats, they would be much appreciated.

CHEERS!!!

sgtryan13 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:37 am

Wow, the parts came out great! Very nice job, and moving planes no less?! Can't wait to see how the RAM's turn out!

Rdutnell · **Posted:** Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:01 pm

UPDATE 18
Thanks Ryan! You will be the first to know.

I just redid the cleat again. Here’s the 2nd version.

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I think it looks better and unless I get something that clearly shows it to be a lot different than this, I think I’ll go with it.

CHEERS!!!

Rdutnell · **Posted:** Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:52 am

UPDATE 19

Good Morning Guys!

I thought I would update everyone on the status of the detailing, which is going extremely well, and is quite fun to do.

Beginning at the rear, since that’s where I decided to start, the first major change is to the upper rudder. I added the anchor light. Not a real light, although I seriously considered putting real lights in it, before deciding against it.

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The next major addition was to Part 8 where I added several items including the sonar fearing, a padeye, and a few unidentifiable circles. I’m not sure that the sonar fearing was on Greenling in the early 70’s, but it is on a rough set of plans I have as well as on a picture I have of her in dry dock, and I think it looks cool. The plans show it offset, the picture in drydock shows it to be in the center of the hull, so that is where I put it. The shape is just the cross-section of the sail scaled down, and the height was eyeballed from the drydock picture. The padeye was pretty much a WAG, as I don’t know exactly what this particular one looked like. Still at this scale it looks good.

The small circles are but a few of the many unlabeled small circles on the ship. I’m doing all of the small unlabeled circles the same way. I use a 0.025” radius circle and project it on the surface at the right location, then extrude a 0.005” radius circle around the projected circle. This creates a donut with half of the donut below the surface. When I subtract the donut, I get a trench 0.01” wide and 0.005” deep around a 0.025” radius.

If you want to see the process in more detail, see the parallel build log I’m keeping on the SubCommittee Forum (http://s181686668.onlinehome.us/phpBB3/ ... 6061cf7c90) Posts 18A and 18B provide the step-by-step procedure that I’m using to create the etching of the little circles. It takes more effort to maintain 2 logs, and I have considered abandoning one and directing people to the other, but I don’t know which one I would abandon and I am getting so many good responses from both threads that I have decided to keep them both going. They are of course very similar, but not exactly the same.

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Moving forward, the next piece I worked on was Part 7, which contains a significant amount of detailing, including MSW Sea chests, ASW Suction, a Signal Ejector, an Access Hatch, a Hinged Chock, the majority of the aft Escape Trunk and several more unidentified circles.

The MSW Sea chests are 0.1” radius circles inscribed 0.01” into the surface and removed, leaving a recessed area. This is because I am going to make the Sea chests out of stainless steel, or brass that my buddy can cut with a laser cutter. The ASW suction is shown as smaller, so I just gave it the etch treatment. I similarly just simply etched the Signal Ejector, Access Hatch, Hinged Chock and unidentified circles. I am wondering though, if I should use metal for the access hatch and look to see if I can find out what the Hinged Chock looks like and put it in the up position. Does anyone have a picture of one?

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I was initially thinking of making the Escape Trunks in metal too, but after seeing a couple of close up pictures I decided to incorporate them into the model. I completed the aft one. It was fun doing it and I think it came out pretty good.

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Several of the detail features are visible in this image.

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And some of the detail on the bottom can be seen in this image. The hole at the top of the image is one of the mounting two mounting holes I drilled. Aft of (or below) that are MBT Flood Hole Baffles Numbers 5 and 7 and the location for the secondary propulsion unit, which I think I am actually going to make, so this will change. Also visible on the left and right are the MSW Sea chests and ASW Suction.

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CHEERS!!!

Christian M. · **Posted:** Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:56 am

I'm for sure no submarine man and have no real knowledge about in general, but the job you do here is only stunning and really great until now Russ!
:thumbs_up_1:

Rdutnell · **Posted:** Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:03 am

Thanks Christian,

I know nothing about submarines either, except what I have learned since I started this project, just like I learned everything I know about carriers since I started the Bennington project.
:big_grin:

LE BOSCO · **Posted:** Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:35 pm

HI Rudtnell

again a very interesting work, fact by you :thumbs_up_1:

cheers
Nicolas

Rdutnell · **Posted:** Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:13 pm

Hey Thanks Nicolas! I appreciate it!

I've gotten quite a bit accomplished since my last update that I think you will enjoy too. I should be able to post another update over the weekend.

Happy Holidays All!!!

Rdutnell · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:09 pm

UPDATE 20
I have made a lot of progress on the Greenling model since my last update, even though some of it has been redoing stuff that I did wrong. For example, in my last update I described putting the sonar fearing on and how I wasn’t sure if it would have been on the ship from 1970-1973, which is the time period I am trying to model. Well, I’m pretty sure that it wasn’t, because I think it was put on in 1977, so I removed it. If anyone knows different, I would love to hear it, or see it.

Two of the details I wanted to add were the retractable capstans in the deployed position. The plans I have show an orthogonal sketch of one as shown below.

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Using this sketch, I made one in AutoCad, using extruded and revolved circles and ellipses.

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Is it perfect? No! Will it work? Yes, especially since it is only 0.14” tall. Here is the one near the rear aft escape trunk.

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And here is the one near the forward escape trunk.

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In both images you can see the hinged cleats. Also, you may notice that I redid the escape trunks. Previously, I made them flat, but because the hull is curved that resulted in 0.01” edges that I couldn’t live with, so I redid them to match the curved profile of the hull.

In the image of the forward trunk area you can see the retractable towing padeye (upper center) and towing fairlead (upper left) that I made based on a couple of photos. Again, they aren’t perfect, but I think they will look fine at the 1/144 scale of the model.

Another change I made was to the MBT Flood Hole Baffles. Previously, I had simply etched their outlines, but then I found plans for the baffle.

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So, I decided to incorporate that feature in my model. Below is an image showing the forward MBT Flood Hole Baffles.

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Once again, they aren’t perfect, especially since I did some of them facing backwards and didn’t notice until it was too late to change them without a lot of effort. I considered changing them, but decided that it wasn’t worth the effort it would take, so it is what it is. Note also the etched torpedo tube shutters.

Another major addition I made is the Secondary Propulsion Unit. Originally, as with the MBT Flood Hole Baffles, I had simply etched the outline, then I started looking through the information that people have been kindly sending me and found plans for it.

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So, using these plans I made one in AutoCad. But, I didn’t simply add it to the hull. I thought it would be cool if it was retractable, so I made it so it could be deployed or stowed. Below are some images of it.

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The assembly consists of 4 pieces, the SPM itself (blue), a load bearing (magenta), a key (green) and a washer (yellow). The key when turned as shown in the third image engages the slots cut in the hull (green) for showing it stowed. When showing it deployed, the key is turned as shown in the third and fifth images, and the SPM is supported by the load bearing.

There is more to report, but it will have to wait for the next update because I have reached my 10 photo limit.

CHEERS!!!

Rdutnell · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:51 pm

UPDATE 21
In past updates, I have mentioned that I am going to make some of the detailing out of metal, but I haven’t provided any details. Well, here’s the scoop.

It all started when my buddy, who is making the plastic parts for me said that he could also make any metal parts I may want on a laser cutter. After this, I was fortunate enough to acquire two different sets of templates. The first one was sent to me by Joel Stadnick, whose fabulous model of USS Jack (SSN-605) is an inspiration for anyone building Thresher/Permit class submarines (or any model for that matter), and if you haven’t seen it, you should. You can find it at:

http://s181686668.onlinehome.us/phpBB3/ ... =35&t=8081

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The second one, I found on-line at (page 83 of 97):

http://precisionpattern.biz/subs/images ... ctions.pdf

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Using these templates and the few pictures I found in brief searches, I’ve been generating my own template as I go. The latest version is shown below, with axes for scale.

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This template is likely to change, because I still haven’t completed the sail, and I need to go back through and account for everything to make sure I didn’t leave anything out. I will likely include a few extras too, just in case the carpet monster raises his ugly head.
Seeing as how all of the detailing on the hull is completed, I thought I would post a few more images of her. Enjoy!

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The blue items in the above image are the retractable stern light and I guess what must be a flag mast. It isn’t identified on the plans I have. The retractable light is a separate part, and has been designed to accommodate a SMD chip LED, since I have decided to light her up. In the succeeding images below you can also see the SPM assembly in blue.

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And lest we forget, the whole purpose of this exercise it to produce a model that I can build. Here is a shot of my test piece with a paper clip through the diving plane.

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CHEERS!!!

Rdutnell · **Posted:** Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:50 am

UPDATE 22
HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!!

I have made pretty good progress on detailing the sail and thought I would share.

Technically, I didn’t start with the sail as I realized that I hadn’t scribed the anti-skid outline, so I did that first.

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I don’t even have plans for the sail, so obviously I have no details on where the anti-skid outline should be, so I just made it up using Thresher/Permit plans as a basis for the scribe locations. I just increased my part numbers by one, because the left and right planes are no longer mirror images, so instead of using one file to print two parts I need separate files for each part.

After completing the planes and saving them, I started detailing the sail itself. I’ve already scribed more access covers than I did on the rest of the ship (8). I also put an access door on the port side, port and starboard navigation lights and the identification light. These items may be clearly seen in the first two images, showing the front and port sides, respectively.

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The yellow surface and line at the bottom is where the top of the hull will be.

As you may know, I have decided to try to put LED chips in for the lights. The green “light” above is just a cut out. The green is the 0.1” thick divider I put down the middle of the sail to split it so that the lights don’t bleed over where they are not wanted. This divider may be seen in the image below. Also observable in the image is the hole for the amber signal light.

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In the next image, showing the starboard side, the “light” is red because I changed the color of the divider before snapping the image.

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The last 2 images show the amber light. I have given a lot of thought on how to do the lights, because even the LED chips, which are as small as it gets, require a 0.063” clearance. This is too big for the lights at this scale, however, from my experience the lights are super bright and it seems to me that they don’t have to actually protrude from the surface to emit light. If I get them close, I think they will still put out a bright enough light.

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In the second image of the identification beacon, you can see that the light is separate from the rest of the part. What you can’t see is that the larger 0.063” hole stops 0.02” below the surface. The OD of the gray part of the “light” is 0.03” and goes to about 0.015” below the surface. The ID, and the diameter of the yellow part of the “light” is 0.024” and this hole goes all the way through the hull.

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Here is where a big unknown comes in, the clear plastic that the parts will be. It occurs to me that this can be a good thing or a bad thing. The potential bad thing is that the clear plastic will allow light through, even if painted. The good thing though is that I may be able to put this to my advantage. Since the plastic is clear, I could either make the light a part of the hull and mask it off when I paint it, or have it be a separate part and paint just the base, and leave the yellow part clear. Another thought that I had if light is an issue, is to fill the inside up with black paint, or even dunk the whole part. I guess I have a long time to think about it since the parts are even made yet.

CHEERS!

Rdutnell · **Posted:** Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:10 pm

Opinions Wanted
Hello Everyone,

As you know if you have been following this build, I am currently detailing the sail and sort of have a dilemma. I want to put the Jack Staff (Flag Staff? It’s not a British ship. :smallsmile:

Gee, I wonder where that term came from?) on the aft edge of the sail as seen in various photos. As you can see in the images below, it’s not as easy as all of that. Using a diameter of 0.025”, a size that I think would support flags, and is equivalent to 3.75” on the ship, the cylinder of the jack staff intersects a significant area of the sail, as you can see in the first image.

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In the second image you can see what the sail part would look like if I simply drilled a 0.025” diameter hole in the sail.

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This looks like a dicey proposition to me, so I am considering adding a 0.035” diameter support shaft, as shown in the next two images.

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Due to the scale, either option disrupts the natural lines of the sail. I want your opinion as to which one you think is the better option. No support, or support? Or another option?

THANKS!!!

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1/144 Scale USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratch Build

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